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LyndaB1 Member Posts: 2 Listener
edited January 2020 in PIP, DLA, and AA
PIP Tribinal Appeal. 

Hi Guys. 

If anybody has any good advice on my situation I would be greatful. I attended a PIP tribunal regarding an ongoing appeal. I was in receipt of DLA indefinitely low rate of mobility and middle rate of personal care and suddenly stopped I  Oct 2018 due to new goverment changes with the choice to apply for PIP. I failed my first assessment and again a mandatory consideration even with along history of psychiatric notes submitted to the DWP. Grounds for refusal was based mainly on my interactions  with the assessor on the day. Stating I remained was focused, calm clean kempt normal speach etc and lack of imputed support from other agencies with my ongoing mental health ranging over 30 years. The tribunal appeal process took another 9/10 months to set a hearing date and then cancelled before christmas 2019  due to tribunal not receiving all my paperwork from DWP they said.. A new date was set for 23/01/2020 and further support letter from my gp outlining my mental health and how it effects me including a very recent new MH assessment carried out my a psych nurse at my local hosptial mental health service. My mental health has been stable for sometime with some lows but manageable. It has deteriorated over the last 4/5 months so had to re-engage with MH services. At the hearing I took along my most recent MH  indepth assessment togetter with a supportive  freind and s welfare advice from my area. I was questioned intensitivy for  approx 1hr 15 mins on my mental health and how I was back in 2018 compared to how it is now. I also have s learning disability and some physical health problems. Previous psychiatric notes and letters from consultant psychiatrists dating back from 1989 could have held an archive of paper on my history along. The DWP and courts recieved on my behalf before the hearing. The appeal was turned down denied and was told to make a new PIP claim. I was awarded 4 points for planning journey and toilet needs due to medical condition. The rest was totally ignored. The Dr at the tribunal asked me alot of questions but not once did they ask ( although they said st the begining of the hearing If I or anybody supporting me wanted to say anything in support of then they could do this st the end. They were not given this opputunity only the welfare officer saying to the judge I was currently been seen for possible diagnosis of bi-polar. I have been given a diagnosis of major mental health diagnosis stemming over 3 decades which has effected me dealing with stress in relationships with family and ppl. My mood has not only plunged to an all time low writing this including constant ongojng suicidal thoughts while waiting to be referred to see a psychiatrist. So this is my current situation in a nut shell. Dispite hearing all the pros and cons of the PIP processes and effecting people with disabilities personally i thought a decision like the outcome recieved was unlawful?? Perhaps and adjustment to decide all the evidence than a refusal. Now to wait a further lenght of time to recieve the reasons why the judge made her decision to turn me down and if there is an error in the law to take it to an upper tribunal. I read somewhere on line that the reasons for a persons deteriation in their mental health is not a good enough reason to refuse someone a PIP award at a hearing. I would have imagioned a letter from s top consultant outlining that I have a life long disability which would need life long support would have been enough to over turn a decidion made by the court. The DWP asked me some questions st the end that in one breath said it's not a trick question just to reply yes or no was the most recent information on my MH assessment accurate? My mobile phone went off in the hearing and DWP officer he said " that does not sound like an average ringtone you have there..did you put that on yourself? Downloaded from an app?? Am not sure who's more delinquent? Me purposely with s learning disability or the DWP officer asking me the question. I replied the ringtone is a very basic ringtone and so no I did not put any app on my phone only the one Icurrently in use. I am now going to contact a legal team to see if they can represent me going further all depending on the courts reasons for denying me my award and to hopefully be granted free legal aid? 

Thanks for taking the time and intrest in reading this.

Kind Regards 


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,573 Disability Gamechanger
    HI and welcome,

    I'm one of the community champions here on scope and i'm here to help and advise others.

    I have read your question a few times but find it difficult to follow because of lack of paragraphs but i'll do my best to advise where i can.

    Firstly, they will only take into consideration what your condition was like at the time the original decision was made, any worsening of condition will not be taken into consideration.

    I also note that "Previous psychiatric notes and letters from consultant psychiatrists dating back from 1989 could have held an archive of paper on your history alone" sending in huge amounts of evidence, if it's not relevant isn't helpful. Less is very often more. Also if you send in huge amounts of evidence you need to be very careful that one piece doesn't contradict another piece, you have to go through all of it with a fine tooth comb. A letter from a top consultant outlining that you have a life long disability which would need life long support isn't really helpful because it's doesn't state how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.

    Did you give real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applied to you? This is the most useful thing you could have done.

    I was looking through my evidence for my PIP review that's coming up this year and i requested my medical records from my GP hoping that there would be something useful in there which i could use. Sadly, there is nothing worth using because most of it isn't relevant to the PIP descriptors. As it's not relevant, it's pointless sending it.

    You also said "I read somewhere on line that the reasons for a persons deteriation in their mental health is not a good enough reason to refuse someone a PIP award at a hearing" yes, it will be if at the time the original decision was made you didn't meet the descriptors for those points. This is because a worsening of condition can not be considered. This is the reason you were advised to re-apply, they are saying to you that at the time the decision was made, you didn't qualify but it's very likely that you would qualify now, if you reapplied BUT i will advise that using the same evidence you previously used could see another refusal.

    Your request for the statement of reasons and record of proceedings could take some time to come back because there's no timescales for this. The Judge can take as long as they want to write and send these to you because they only do them when they have spare time. You will then need to find someone to take a look to find that error in law, if it's not found you won't be able to appeal the decision. This whole process could take another year, possibly longer.

    Based on your worsening of condition and the advice by the Tribunal, it maybe worth you start another claim while you wait for the SOR. Just my thoughts but what ever you decide, good luck.

  • LyndaB1
    LyndaB1 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi poppy

    Thanks a million got your reply. Taking the time and intrest to explain all this. Yes I have complex learning dyslexia. Reason for incomplete sentences. I cannot proof read my own work. 

    Referring to all you said 1)  they take into consideration  my condition when original decision was made including how it is now or if there are any changes. The law says " any person who is at a disadvantage compared to someone who is not ie recognized disability or a condition that is not likely to change " a life long one" or first degree rather than a second degree illness which effects their daily life and limits their capacity compared to someone who say doesnt then by law  the goverment is obliged legally assist them with the right finanical support available to that person.  The law does not state otherwise. Equality act 2010. 

    Reason for submitting all supportive evidence. I was asked by DWP to do this. Yes I agree take into consideration one peice of evidence does not contradict the other which I agree could have happened here in my situation. I understood thought the most supported upto date evidence by my gp and MH team would have been enough to show that a life long disability was evident and if the case then it's going to limit a person's life. Eitherway. No? They also acknowledged a disability worsens over a period of time and with age. They took this into consideration on the day.  Am also assuming  the welfare adviser supporting me would have  advised me against not to send in all the medical  evidence as the information was passed to him first to take a look at and he submitted it on my behalf online after. I did not submit a personal statement outlining how my disability effects me. Yes I understand it could take upto a year to come back to me with their reasons and is why I would like a legal team to get involved who deal with upper tribunals. 

    All the info you have suggested I will take on  board for my next application but I will still challenge the first tribunal if I can. 

    Thank you. 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,573 Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome,

    Sorry but despite what the EA 2010 states, this is a PIP application and what you stated above doesn't apply here. You're totally misunderstanding what PIP is all about. Having some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean will always help. You can have a disability but if you don't meet the descriptors you won't score the points for an award. Not everyone with a disability will be awarded PIP. This guide is a good one, if you can understand it.

    It's not about having a disadvantage than another person who doesn't have a disability. It's not about a diagnosis or an illness. It's about how those conditions affect your ability to carry out daily activity based on the PIP descriptors.

    You can have 2 people with the exact same condition and diagnosis, person 1 goes to their Tribunal hearing, 30 minutes later they leave the room, smiles all over their face because a decision went in their favour and they were awarded. Person 2 enters the same room, shortly after they leave the room feeling extremely angry and very upset because they lost the Tribunal and weren't awarded. You can't compare 2 peoples conditions because 1 person could be affected completely differently to another person.

    A worsening of condition is not taken into consideration by DWP for the MR and the Tribunal for the appeal.

    Showing with evidence that you have a life long disability will not get you a PIP award. Showing that you meet the descriptors, could get you a PIP award.

    I know you were represented by a WR officer (WRO) and this can give you a better chance of a decision in your favour BUT there are times when it doesn't and not all cases that are represented win but more than 70% of them do. If it was me then i'd be concerned if there was a contradiction in that evidence then why was it sent by your WRO? It may be a case of a poorly presented case, these cases often lose.

  • thespiceman
    thespiceman Member Posts: 6,389 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    Hello @LyndaB1   Pleased to meet you.

    Thank you for joining and sharing.

    Sorry to hear this.

    I am one of the Team of Community Champion as well.

    Have life long disability mental health and addiction history.

    Advise members of our community like myself. Offer relevant information.

    Please can I always advise take a member of your support team to the tribunal.

    Not a friend the support worker can then say how you are more and discuss any ongoing problems.

    Understand you sent a lot of medical evidence but what is better a support worker.

    Who has sent with any form a care report, clear precise to the point.

    Would speak to you before any tribunal assessment discuss this.

    I used these three .




    Please can I add further you re engaged mental health teams if have discharged you and not to have you back.

    A common trait in the services. As I know too well.

    Used all my mental health services in the areas resided in.

    Expect you to cope with any issues and deal with ongoing problems, welfare and well being of mental health is important.

    Ongoing for myself continuous as many of us are.

    Then you are entitled to find other support, that is something I have been constantly doing.

    If I can, one other point we are here to offer compassion, empathy, sensitivity.

    Any time. 

    Please if I can help further please ask.

    Please take care.

    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,573 Disability Gamechanger
    Sadly, taking someone with you like a Support Worker, friend or family member to a hearing doesn't mean they will be able to speak on your behalf. Unless you have an appointee the panel will expect the claimant to speak for theirself. They may as the person with you if there's anything they would like to add at the end of the hearing but even this doesn't always happen.
  • Robert46
    Robert46 Member Posts: 7 Listener
    Never stop fighting for what you believe to be right !!
  • across2490
    across2490 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Hi Lindab1, 
    I'm sorry I cant comment on your situation, but i do hope you get sorted in the end.

  • steve51
    steve51 Member Posts: 7,154 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @LyndaB1
    Good Afternoon & Welcome ??

    I’m very very sorry to hear about your current problems “pip”

    I do hope that you can get too the bottom of things “ASAP”

    Please please let me know if there’s anything that I can help you with!!!!!!!!


  • Ails
    Ails Member Posts: 2,256 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @LyndaB1 and welcome to the Community.  It is nice to meet you and thank you for sharing with us.  I hope you get everything sorted out with PIP and very sorry to hear of your problems with this.  Please keep in touch and let us know how you get on.  If there is anything else we can help/support you with then please just let us know.  All the best.  :smile:
    Winner of the Scope New Volunteer Award 2019.   :)
  • Ails
    Ails Member Posts: 2,256 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Robert46 and welcome also to the Community.  It is nice to meet you.  If there is anything we can help/support you with then please just let us know.  All the best.  :smile:
    Winner of the Scope New Volunteer Award 2019.   :)


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