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Pip f2f report

tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
Had my sons f2f report and what can I say 😥 basically used the fact that he failed the gcse and had 1 to 1 support against him as he hasnt been statemented and he plays a xbox .
He doesn't have a statement because he went on the welsh government idp which in my sons case replaced the statement but has the same value at the time .he is supported by his older brother, younger brother and sister when he plays the xbox . Can all these things really go against him ? . So I am sending in extra evidence of the idp is his version of a statement . A letter off his older siblings saying they support him playing xbox , a letter from his college , another paediatric letter , his last Idp paperwork , a letter from his transport support worker ( the lady who looks after him to and from college in the taxi ) and I'm hoping to get a letter from the senco of the comprehensive school he attended . I really hope the decision maker takes this into account I'm devastated 

Replies

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    @tina77 - I'm not 100% certain what you mean by 'used it against him' but the assessors do make assumptions about the claimant's capabilities, relying on how they carry out other activities...

    I can't play computer games but they will probably say he has good co-ordination, fine motor skills, concentration etc. Did this contradict what he was claiming for?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm assuming that you haven't had the decision yet because his assessment was only a week ago, looking back at your previous thread.

    Have you added up any points that may have been recommended in the report? Sometimes there could be contradictions etc but it's still possible for points to be recommended which add up to an award. Look for the dots against the activities/descriptors and use the PIP self test to see what he may have scored. http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.php

    If there's not enough of points for an award, once the decision is made then you'll have 1 month from that date to request the MR.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    The points she has done will add up to only 4 ?
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    He basically just runs round shooting everyone no skills are needed for the game he plays . His brother plays the same time as him so helps him with choices . 
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    In all her report she uses , although hoc  shows that he had one to one classroom  assistant at school and gained poor qualifications for his gcse,s , he did not receive a statement of educational needs which would not support a significant cognitive restriction and the case and IO'S show no cognitive restrictions evident at time of assessment . The SOH shows that he enjoys playing strategy games which supports cognition .
    Therefore it is likely that he can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided on the majority of days to an acceptable standard and safely. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    Why did you withhold these letters and additional information until now?

    @tina77 can you answer this question please?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    And where do I start on what she has put on his college transport and route planning.  She didn't even mention his carer ? She saying he catches a taxi because he is not confident! He had a risk assessment by the council ☹ I know I have to wait but her report is dreadful.  I'll get the transport risk assessment to send in as extra evidence.  My son really does struggle to process things , cant even tell the time , so say example he knows his taxi picks him up at 8.10 am ( digital clock ) and he gets to college at say 9.00am he could tell you it took 50 minutes to get there . He also knows routine by looking at numbers but just cant grasp time . 
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    ilovecats said:
    Why did you withhold these letters and additional information until now?

    @tina77 can you answer this question please?
    Because I thought I had given enough . I wasnt prepared at all . I thought she would of known that a idp is a equivalent of a statement he even has a sen number ect . I just read his idp and its mainly focused on his support in school . I haven't had any help at home with him . Now the paediatric has referred him for test on autism ect and a social worker to finally get him the help he needs.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @tina77 did you send any of that evidence you mentioned above when you sent the form back?
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    @poppy123456 it was a dwp worker that filled my form with myself and my son no he only took his college skill plan , a couple of paediatric letters , the acceptance letter off the college stating it was a entry level course and the letter saying he would have a taxi to and from college provided by the council 
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    tina77 said:
    And where do I start on what she has put on his college transport and route planning.  She didn't even mention his carer ? She saying he catches a taxi because he is not confident! He had a risk assessment by the council ☹ I know I have to wait but her report is dreadful.  I'll get the transport risk assessment to send in as extra evidence.  My son really does struggle to process things , cant even tell the time , so say example he knows his taxi picks him up at 8.10 am ( digital clock ) and he gets to college at say 9.00am he could tell you it took 50 minutes to get there . He also knows routine by looking at numbers but just cant grasp time . 
    Sorry misstype here he couldn't tell you it took 50 minutes *
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    tina77 said:
    @poppy123456 it was a dwp worker that filled my form with myself and my son no he only took his college skill plan , a couple of paediatric letters , the acceptance letter off the college stating it was a entry level course and the letter saying he would have a taxi to and from college provided by the council 

    I'm not sure why you either didn't send the rest of the evidence to them or hand it in during the assessment.

    Once the decision's been made you'll have 1 month from that date to request the MR. As they usually go with the report, you'll have plenty of time to start writing the letter for the MR. When you do this, you should avoid mentioning any lies/contradictions that may have been told in the report and concentrate on where and why you think he should have score those points. The add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him,

    Any complaint about the report should be sent to the health assessment providers.

    As most MR decisions remain the same then it's likely you'll have to take it to Tribunal. If you can get help/advice and support with this then i'd advise you to do that. Use this link to see what's local to you. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Because the dwp man took what he thought was relevant . He understood that my sons idp was a alternative way of statement but obviously the face to face assessment didnt understand this . And she obviously didnt read the information she had right or she would of seen that he has a support worker in his taxi with him and does not travel it alone . As for proof should I just drop my son off and see if he can find his way home as a example? I have already stated he got lost in our village once which scared him , he ran across a busy road and tried going through a field ( what he thought was a shortcut ) but just ended up getting lost and upset we went out looking for him as the car he ran in front was somebody I knew and they alerted me .
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    No I read over it briefly what the dwp wrote but I dont have a copy . Everything that was wrote was the truth so I'm not worried about that . I did take some of the extra evidence with me but she did not take copies or did not note them in the files . She told me they had all the evidence? That's why I assumed she knew what a idp was . Like I said it was a very quick interview that what he said she said different on her report ? Even down to me changing the questions she asked into simple words that he could understand wasnt noted . I know I cant argue the things she has written until a decision has been made but I just need them to be aware that his idp was classed with the same value as a statement . But really what evidence can I send to show he gets supported whilst playing the xbox ? I cant send videos in I have been told they dont accept them
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    @tina77 - personally, unless you mentioned a Xbox in the original application and believe that you need to clarify what was written, I'd forget about it. 

    Just concentrate on why you think that your son should get PIP, what he can/can't do, what he needs help with etc. Give examples, as other have said.


  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Totally agree about the xbox part and a letter saying that he gets support from a sibling while playing it is not needed. Neither is pointing out any lies/contradictions that may have been told in the report because DWP and Tribunal won't be interested in any of those. All they will want to know is where and why you think he should have scored those points.

    Videos of what?

    The length of time the assessment takes doesn't affect a decision at all. I've had assessments as short as 15 minutes and as long as 1hour and 15 minutes and never been refused.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Yes I'm certain it was mentioned on his application form that he plays xbox with his siblings support. Although I'm not 100% on that . 
    I really need them to understand his idp was a equivalent of a statement through school for him . I've got his past 2 ipd meeting reports ready to send I'm waiting to hear off his senco from comprehensive school to see how she could help in getting them to understand this . I have printed out the leaflet though explaining exactly what a ipd is . I'm hoping they do not use the assessors lack of understanding when they make a decision .
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    A leaflet with information is not classed as evidence for a PIP claim.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    A leaflet with information is not classed as evidence for a PIP claim.
    So what would be ? I have all his yearly meeting plans? It says on there to either tick statement or funded idp . So his meetings where exactly the same as what a child who had a statement has . He wouldn't be on this college course he is on without having a statement or a equivalent value idp ? The head of learning there has told me this. I am expecting a call of his old senco teacher later to clarify all this 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2020
    @tina77 - PIP is about how a condition affects individuals carrying out day to day tasks.

    Information leaflets are general - not about how a condition affects a particular person - which is why they aren't any use..

    Personally I still think that you're going at this the wrong way...better, IMO, to forget about IDPs, X Boxes,and videos and just emphasis what tasks your son has difficulty with.

    eg can he prepare a meal? If not why not? Can he do it if you help him? Can he dress himself? etc etc

    Edit - a further thought. I don't remember if telling the time is covered by PIP but if you say that your son knows that if he leaves at 0810 and gets somewhere at 0900 it's 50 minutes be careful that the DWP don't assume that he can do simple budgeting - i.e. £1 less 70p = 30p change as it's quite similar..
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I have to totally agree with @cristobal here. In my opinion you're missing the point.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    When i first claimed for PIP for my daughter i was asked if i wanted a DWP representative to come to my home to help fill out the form.. i said, thanks but no thanks.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    cristobal said:
    @tina77 - PIP is about how a condition affects individuals carrying out day to day tasks.

    Information leaflets are general - not about how a condition affects a particular person - which is why they aren't any use..

    Personally I still think that you're going at this the wrong way...better, IMO, to forget about IDPs, X Boxes,and videos and just emphasis what tasks your son has difficulty with.

    eg can he prepare a meal? If not why not? Can he do it if you help him? Can he dress himself? etc etc

    Edit - a further thought. I don't remember if telling the time is covered by PIP but if you say that your son knows that if he leaves at 0810 and gets somewhere at 0900 it's 50 minutes be careful that the DWP don't assume that he can do simple budgeting - i.e. £1 less 70p = 30p change as it's quite similar..
    It was a typing error on here he cant tell the time I used that as a example but didnt check what a wrote . No he cant cook he has no science patients or the skills required to do it as he is still many years behind a average child his age . 
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    @crystolbal yes I understand your point . But how they can say he didnt have a statement and about his cognitive skills? He needs support from another person to do most day to day things safely . I do realise this will end up being appealed and I do realise it is my fault for not doing it right from the start . It's just by losing this we will not be able to keep going ahead with the direct payment we were trying to get for him as I wont be able to pay the extra amount.  It's going to put us in a right pickle . I'm not very literate so bare with my spelling ect . I am greatful for all your help and do take everything onboard 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Why can't he do those activities? why does he need the support he receives? does he need prompting/assistance  to bath/shower? if so then why does he need this. If he wasn't prompted/assisted then what would happen if he had to do this activity alone? give some real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity. Then do exactly the same for each activity the applies to him.


    I realise that all the contradictions/lies are very hurtful and your angry but pointing them out is not going to help you.

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @crystolbal yes I understand your point . But how they can say he didnt have a statement and about his cognitive skills? He needs support from another person to do most day to day things safely .

    @tina77 - your spelling is fine...

    My only suggestion really is leave it for a day or two and try and put it to the back of your mind. Don't worry about who said what.

    Then, in a couple of days, have a look through the different activities and see what your son can/ can't do.

    Go through them one at a time, maybe use a page for each.

    For example - you said that he can't prepare a meal. Can he not do it all? Can he open tins, butter bread? Can he use a hob? If not explain why. You say he is 'many years behind' other children - how far? Mine could 'cook' with supervision at 7 or 8. Can he do this?

    Do this for each one - maybe a couple per day.

    If you're worried about spelling then type it out when you've finished and use spellcheck.

    Get someone - maybe a friend - to help you.

    Post on here again if you need further help (but not about statements and X box!)
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    cristobal said:
    @crystolbal yes I understand your point . But how they can say he didnt have a statement and about his cognitive skills? He needs support from another person to do most day to day things safely .

    @tina77 - your spelling is fine...

    My only suggestion really is leave it for a day or two and try and put it to the back of your mind. Don't worry about who said what.

    Then, in a couple of days, have a look through the different activities and see what your son can/ can't do.

    Go through them one at a time, maybe use a page for each.

    For example - you said that he can't prepare a meal. Can he not do it all? Can he open tins, butter bread? Can he use a hob? If not explain why. You say he is 'many years behind' other children - how far? Mine could 'cook' with supervision at 7 or 8. Can he do this?

    Do this for each one - maybe a couple per day.

    If you're worried about spelling then type it out when you've finished and use spellcheck.

    Get someone - maybe a friend - to help you.

    Post on here again if you need further help (but not about statements and X box!)
    Thank you for your kind words . I have actually made myself so bad through this I have been sick a few times today with worry . I have spoken to the senco and she explained everything amazing to me . She is going to do a letter up on what aaron could and could not do and explain on his form of statement ( sorry I will not mention it again ) . Also yes I do actually believe he could do things but with supervision and guidance and I shall be putting that to the test in the coming week. For now I have done everything I can ( which I should of done at the start ). I will post all the extra evidence in next week once it's all collected then try to forget about it and start building up my reconsideration.  Thank you all again for putting up with my stupidity .
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I would advise you to send the evidence with the MR letter once the decision is made.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    I would advise you to send the evidence with the MR letter once the decision is made.
    Hi the dwp have asked for it after I raised my concern about the f2f . They also said to send all other evidence I can get so that it will all be there for the decision maker . Wouldn't all the evidence support his original claim ? Hopefully it wont need a reconsideration if the evidence is taken into account in the first place ? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Usually they go with the report but it has been known for them to go against it and for the report to be returned to the HCP is there's contradictions between what's written and the evidence BUT this is rare.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • tina77tina77 Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Ok thank you . They have asked for it and noted it on the computer so I will send it in . Also there is plenty of contradictions ready for a mandatory reconsideration.  They told me yesterday there is now a 8 weeks waiting time but to get all the evidence in within the next 2 weeks . I have to also put his ni ontop of everything and write a letter along side it . They said that no decision will be made by the assessor report alone and that all evidence is taken into account . I will be quite for now but hope that I can come back for support in how to do the mandatory reconsideration ( if needed ) . Also I might go to catch up to help . I really do feel gutted that i didn't do all this at the start but i thought that the basic information was enough . Thank you all again tina 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Pointing out the contradictions in the report will not help the MR or Tribunal. Reading back through the thread will help because you've been given some good advice.

    They may well look at the evidence before making a decision but regardless, it's still rare for them to go against the report, which is why it's written.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,959 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi Tina, as a Mum you have just done the best you could for your son; PIP claims are misunderstood by many, unfortunately. I'm so sorry to read it's caused you so much worry.
    It seems you may have been given the opportunity to send supportive evidence to further your son's claim before the DWP Decision Maker makes their decision, but as Poppy advises, they may still go with the assessor's report.
    Again, as advised, talking about contraindications in the assessor's report, will certainly not help should you need to do a Mandatory Reconsideration, rather an understanding of the PIP 'descriptors,' which Poppy has given above.
    Please know that Poppy has a great understanding of PIP, as well as other benefits, & has given you the best possible advice.
    Also know, we are all trying to support you both in our different ways, & of course it's alright to talk here absolutely any time. :)
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,925

    Scope community team

    Hi @tina77. I'm really sorry you feel the assessment report didn't accurately represent your son and his care needs. As @chiarieds said, please know we're all here to support you any time.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

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