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after a home visit given zero on all points how is this possible this was a reveiw and i had middle

rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
After a home visit and due to a spinal permanent injury in 2010 having ptsd anxiety and depression given a zero .i clearly think they didnt read the assesors notes as he was kind and compassionate.
i was previously handed middle level of pip with ten points on mobility and now a zero my condition has worsened and im having cardiac investigations and urinary incontinence testing at urologist in the hospital.i am also under CBT,i truly have no idea why they have doen this like was this computer generated?
also if i had it tapoed can i say to them i will send the transcribed notes through or should i leave that for court?

Replies

  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    i had a home visit as i suffer a permanent dissability to my spine and have ptsd and severe depression.i got zero points i think they have not even seen the assesors report as he was kind and caring when he left he said to me keep well and dont worry.
    i am due for a halter and cardiac investigations in Febuary also have Urinary incontinence testing at hospital.i am so disturbed by this,
    Any advice ? can i get the audio transcribed i secretley taped it as i was advised to by some people.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi and welcome,

    A report would have been written and sent to DWP otherwise a decision couldn't have been made. Just because the HCP seemed nice it doesn't mean points were recommended. Having a home assessment is no advantage than an assessment in one of their centres.

    Secretly recording the assessment is not advisable. Had you been caught doing this then your assessment would most likely had been stopped and your file returned to DWP and you would have been refused that benefit.

    You will need to have it transcribed to be able to use it at the Tribunal. My advice is to concentrate on where you think you should have scored those points and your reasons why. Adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Concentrating on the recording is not going to score you any points. You have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the MR.

    Most MR decisions remain the same so you'll likely have to take it to Tribunal. The only downside is that waiting times are huge across most of the country and lots are waiting a year for a hearing date. Appearing in person will give you the best chance of a decision in your favour.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello, covertly recording your assessment is wrong and illegal, as poppy stated had this been observed your assessment would have been halted. Maybe the assessor was or became aware of your secret recording and thought better of it, and awarded you nothing knowing you would have to go to a tribunal and thus wait a year or more for your award to be granted. Rough justice we, you will never no. 
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    . Why is it that the court accpets  the ttanscribed script? I also had a witness with me and notes were taken so i can use the notes only if the court doesnt accpet the transcribed notes and says its illegal. Is this possible 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    @rasberry - if it goes to a tribunal whether the panel accept it is a matter for them. Either way they won't listen to a recording so you'll have to transcribe it...

    Edit AFAIK all courts use a transcription - certainly the criminal courts do...

  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    Hi Cristobal iwhat is AFIK please. I actually would like this to go to court as i feel cheated and it is very distressing to go through this every few years. this was a review 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @rasberry - AFAIK = 'as far as I know'

    Don't worry about recordings, transcriptions and the like - you're focussing on things that aren't important..

    Concentrate, as others have said, on why you should get PIP. Give examples of what you can/ can't do
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    okie yes correct it just makes me so sad and distressed. Thank you for your kindness 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Another thing to remember is that it's not a court, it's a Tribunal.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • skullcapskullcap Posts: 172 Member
    But it is still part on the Ministry of Justice.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    In a court you're on trial. At a Tribunal you're not and that's the difference. Concentrate on where and why you think you should have scored those points and not on the recording. Put your post code into this link to see what's local to you for face to face advice. https://advicelocal.uk/

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @skullcap said..."But it is still part on the Ministry of Justice."

    Not entirely sure of the relevance of this - maybe I've missed something - but MOJ or not I still think the best bit is just to concentrate on presenting a good case for being awarded PIP. Look up the activities and descriptors on the DWP website and use these as a guide for what examples to use...

    @skullcap - did you previously post as Yadnad, Twonker, & Gruber. I'm just curious??
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    thing is i said all of my descriptors of using aids  for eating and using ready made meals all of this however none of it was used in my decision sadly. 
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    Can we call in and speak to a decision officer of some sort? 
  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
     Having a home assessment is no advantage than an assessment in one of their centres.

     
    I beg to differ especially if you are claiming  for a mobility issue Moving  around, As some of their centres can involve a lengthy walk, from a car park or public transport, and of course they can and do use this against you, at these farces they regard as assessments, So if you do have issues walking or being able to travel, then there is nothing to lose by insisting on a home visit, although it may be a longer wait for the assessment

  • tommtomm Member Posts: 231 Pioneering
    wilko said:
    Hello, covertly recording your assessment is wrong and illegal, as poppy stated had this been observed your assessment would have been halted. Maybe the assessor was or became aware of your secret recording and thought better of it, and awarded you nothing knowing you would have to go to a tribunal and thus wait a year or more for your award to be granted. Rough justice we, you will never no. 
    Wasn't illegal as it was in the OP's home, it won't be admissible at a tribunal though they will refuse  to accept it ,  but it could be useful for the op to use for refreshing their memory of what took place such as any examination  or tests of limb movement, though if the medical evidence is constant with what the op says as to how these diagnosed problems affect his day-to-day life then a tribunal shouldn't have any problems  making a favourable decision

  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    yes  i will use to qoute many instances it does help to recap also now with MR
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    Mobility is a great issue for me 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    tomm said:
     Having a home assessment is no advantage than an assessment in one of their centres.

     
    I beg to differ especially if you are claiming  for a mobility issue Moving  around, As some of their centres can involve a lengthy walk, from a car park or public transport, and of course they can and do use this against you, at these farces they regard as assessments, So if you do have issues walking or being able to travel, then there is nothing to lose by insisting on a home visit, although it may be a longer wait for the assessment


    What i meant was having a home assessment doesn't increase your chances of being awarded.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    Hello @rasberry   Pleased to meet you sorry to hear what happened.

    I am also one of the team of Community Champions.

    Please if I can suggest always get help, support with your mental health.  If you have no one then please consider using the following.

    I know from personal experience always a good idea to have continuous support evaluating you mental health over time.

    I would recommend these.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    https://www.mind.org.uk.

    https://www.rethink.org.

    Might not be in all areas.

    They can help you with your problems offer benefit advice and support. Attend assessments, tribunals although. 

    Tribunals attend but may not be able to speak for you.  Be there to support.

    Assessments can do if needed.

    All charities offer well being and health advice on sleep, meds and diet, nutrition.

    Use education, knowledge and coping methods to help you cope.

    Hope that helps.

    Please if you have any questions please ask.

    I would also speak to CAB use them for guidance, advice and support.

    Please look at the relevant information my friend @poppy123456 has given you.

    To give you a lot of reassurance and self esteem, been through a  few of these had positives and to add wish you well for a successful outcome.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    Thank you means a lot i do feel on a very low atm
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @rasberry   Thank you for reply. Please if I can advise further have had support workers from these charities before.

    Called recovery give you coping methods to deal with issues.

    As I am aware with mental health if I can suggest think about your own wellbeing and health.

    Have diet, nutritional  qualifications and an addiction history. Part of my role is to help those like my self.

    Who have mental health.

    Be sensible makes some changes and be aware of avoiding Caffeine in Coffee, Tea Cola and Chocolate.

    Avoid Alcohol these are stimulants. Get anxious or stressed consume more.  Makes you worse.

    Balanced diet Lean Meat, fruit and vegetables.  Leafy greens, Eggs and use Yoghurt with added bacteria culture helps the stomach.

    Whole grains, Bread, Rice and Pasta.

    If have any allergies or food intolerances speak to GP.

    Please contact me if I can be of any help also.

    I would one other speak to GP any way. Been on benefits a long time every assessment if have a problem consult GP.

    Often has relevant organisations or welfare. For example my area has a specific CAB welfare unit dealing with our community.

    Ring up and discuss any thing like benefits and so on.

    Hope that helps you a lot more to give you confidence.

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • skullcapskullcap Posts: 172 Member
    In a court you're on trial. At a Tribunal you're not and that's the difference. 

    That's not entirely true. You are not on trial in a County Court or High Court. They, like a Tribunal, are only interested in who is the most likely to be believed.
  • skullcapskullcap Posts: 172 Member
    cristobal said:
    @skullcap said..."But it is still part on the Ministry of Justice."

    Not entirely sure of the relevance of this - maybe I've missed something - but MOJ or not I still think the best bit is just to concentrate on presenting a good case for being awarded PIP. Look up the activities and descriptors on the DWP website and use these as a guide for what examples to use...

    @skullcap - did you previously post as Yadnad, Twonker, & Gruber. I'm just curious??
    No, why do you ask?
  • skullcapskullcap Posts: 172 Member
    edited February 2020
    tomm said:
     Having a home assessment is no advantage than an assessment in one of their centres.

     
    I beg to differ especially if you are claiming  for a mobility issue Moving  around, As some of their centres can involve a lengthy walk, from a car park or public transport, and of course they can and do use this against you, at these farces they regard as assessments, So if you do have issues walking or being able to travel, then there is nothing to lose by insisting on a home visit, although it may be a longer wait for the assessment

    I don't see the point. If you are saying that 10/15 metres or so of walking is about your absolute limit, surely you will have encountered this in your normal daily life?
    How do you cope in your normal life with getting around? If you have and use an electric scooter then you could use it to get to the assessment centre.

    Those are some of the things that an assessor would be looking at. 

    However if you can only walk that sort of distance with help, say from the entrance door at the supermarket (being dropped off by car) and then once inside the store you get onto one of their scooters to do the shopping then there would be no difficulty in doing the same at the assessment centre whilst someone got the fold up wheelchair out of the boot of the car to go in for your assessment.
  • rasberryrasberry Member Posts: 13 Listener
    alarming rate of suicide because of the distress the DWP is causing. 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    skullcap said:
    cristobal said:
    @skullcap said..."But it is still part on the Ministry of Justice."

    Not entirely sure of the relevance of this - maybe I've missed something - but MOJ or not I still think the best bit is just to concentrate on presenting a good case for being awarded PIP. Look up the activities and descriptors on the DWP website and use these as a guide for what examples to use...

    @skullcap - did you previously post as Yadnad, Twonker, & Gruber. I'm just curious??
    No, why do you ask?
    Doesn't matter really - your content is almost identical to Twonker who hasn't posted for ages...just curious as to the new username..

    Regards
  • skullcapskullcap Posts: 172 Member
    cristobal said:



    Doesn't matter really - your content is almost identical to Twonker who hasn't posted for ages...just curious as to the new username..

    Regards
    I see. No unfortunately I have never been a member on here previously although I have read many stories over the past 6 months or so.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,001 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m not clear where this idea that a recording must be transcribed to be evidence for a tribunal has come from. There’s nothing in the law or case law to that effect to the best of my knowledge. 

    A recording simply needs to be made available in a format accessible to all the parties to the proceedings. A quality transcription will cost a fair amount of time and money and will not be helpful at all if it’s not done by someone reputable and accompanied by... the original recording in an accessible format. 

    Bottom line is that a tribunal is unlikely to be listed for long enough to hear the full recording and panel members may not receive the recording or the transcription early enough to work through it either. What that means in practice is that in most cases all that effort isn’t likely to be especially productive. 

    The better approach has already been alluded to by @poppy123456 i.e. identify the points you ought to score and why. Identify at least a couple of recent detailed examples per activity and away you go.

    As regards the whole “how is this possible?” issue the answer to that is easy. People tend to assume that if they’ve got worse then surely they’ll qualify. Sadly it’s never that simple. You have to do a lot of work and in particular have access to your previous claim and supporting evidence in order to use that (assuming it was successful straight out of the gate and not after an MR or appeal) as the basis for what you submit now. Too many people put in words which not only assume DWP willybdersysgd how bad things are but which in many actively contradict what that says in the first place.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq - I agree; I recorded my assessment and found it very helpful. Not for a tribunal though...

    The bottom line though is that there's little that would be in most recordings to help a claimant at a tribunal - just the "I said, she said" of the assessment. Showing that the assessor wrote 'x' when you said 'y' doesn't prove that 'y' is correct, so you're most likely to be no further forward.

    Best stick to presenting your own evidence, examples etc (as others have said)
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