No face to face for pip? — Scope | Disability forum
If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.

No face to face for pip?

anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering

Im new here and going through the stressful process of a pip application for my 21yr old son.

He has autism and learning difficulties. He has been on dla since the age of 3yrs and i have had plenty practice filling out forms as i had to renew his dla every 2yrs until 2015.

Then he got a 5yr award of middle rate care and low rate mobility until april 2020.

I became his appointee when he was 16yrs old. We got the invite to apply for pip in december 2019.

I filled out the form myself, not realising the importance of matching difficulties to descriptors. I just answered honestly as to what he can and cant do. And i didnt have any recent evidence to send as he was discharged from nhs services at 16yrs.

So i put in a cognitive report from 2011 and a report with his autism diagnosis from 2011. Plus a speech language report from 2012 showing his comprehension was 5yrs behind his age level when he was 13.

I really thought i had mucked it up for him when i found online info explaining what the descriptors are getting at.

So i was almost looking forward to getting to f2f so i could explain properly how his difficulties impact him.

Today - with no face to face appt being sent - i received a letter saying they have all the info they need to make a decision.

Is this hopeful that he will get an award of some kind? I dont really mind if it is a low award. But no award will be disaster. He is able to take the bus to the supported activities he does through the week. Due to him getting dla, he has a free bus pass so he doesnt need to handle cash or speak to the driver. The bus pass is a lifeline for him and it would be a huge loss if he is refused pip.

Does anyone know why he isnt being called for f2f? The reports i sent are really good and detailed but they are over 8yrs old so i thought they would want to see him at least to check if he matches what is on the report. He does attend the centre for adults with autism and do some supported voluntary work in a cafe that supports disabled adults. I put that on the form.

Is it looking positive do you think?


  • wilko
    wilko Member Posts: 2,455 Disability Gamechanger
    @anisty., hello and welcome. As you now know that the criteria for being awarded PIP depend on how the claiment responds to the PIP descriptiors in how they effect, impact on their daily living activities and their ability to preform them safely and in a repeatable and timely manner. The criteria for claiming DLA and PIP are different. Since the assessment has happened you can request a copy of your assessment report and on receiving it you can workout what you're award may should be but you still have to wait for the official award confirmation letter which can take up to 8 weeks to complete. 
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Thanks for this - the letter didnt say that the assessment had happened. It said they have all the information they need to make a decision.

    What does that mean - is it that all the info i sent has already been assessed and is now back in the hands of the decision maker?

    How do i get the assessment report? Do i call dwp on the usual number?

    Also, i will be appealing if he is refused. I know there is a small time window in which to appeal. Is it ok to wait for the official decision and then ask for the MR. Or will it be too late by the time the official letter comes?

    Is it quite usual to be given no award with no face to face in a dla to pip transfer situation?

    I did a reasonably good job of the form. But it could have been better!
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,068 Disability Gamechanger

    As they have all the information they need then this will mean that a face to face assessment wasn't needed because they had enough of information to be able to do a paper based assessment. To me, this is a very good thing. Although you can't compare 2 people, my daughters PIP review last year was a paper based assessment and she received Enhanced for both parts.

    To request a copy of the assessment report you need to ring PIP. Providing you live in the UK they will send you a copy before the decisions made. Once you receive it look for the dots next to the activities and compare them to the PIP descriptors online to see what score has been recommended. They usually go with the report.

    Other than request the report all you can do is wait for the decision to be made. Once it has, if you're not happy then you'll have 1 month from that date to request the MR.

    Good luck.
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Thank you for this. He really should qualify for an award. When i totted up the points where i think he should score, it came out as enhanced care and standard mobility. That would fit his current dla award of middle rate care and low rate mobility.

    I am a bit (very!) worried that, in my summing up, on the final page I did make the comment that he is managing well in his life at the moment.

    At the moment he has the same pattern to his week where he attends set activities and these are familiar to him so he copes well and is happy and settled and managing.  So, on the old dla system where you had to estimate the amount of time taken for each activity, he might not score well. At one time it took a good half hour or more of our time to get him to shower as we had to stand outside the door the whole time saying 'i cant hear any water. Are you in yet?'

    And he would be getting angry. We had to prompt him through the whole thing.

    Now we only have to say 'have a shower' and he will go and do that.

    So some things have improved for sure. However, he is nowhere near a cognitively able 21yr old. If he didnt have these activites to go to, he would go into his bedroom all day, not eat, not keep any routine (he would then need a lot more input from us to get up, dressed, washed and to eat)

    So i am hoping the fact he is managing well just now wont go against him.

    As with no award. No bus pass. No activities. Then he would really struggle. It is because of the support he gets from dla that he is able to get to specialist supports in the town. I have put all this on the form but i hope they dont take the view that he is managing himself within these limited routines so he doesnt need the help.

    I was hoping to be able to explain all this in detail at a f2f. I just hope i havent given an overly optimistic impression of him on the form. Time will tell!
  • Jay1969
    Jay1969 Member Posts: 23 Connected

    I think a paper based assessment can be a good thing tbh. But DLA and PIP are very different in the way they look at matching difficulties to descriptors. It may be that they call you to a F2F at a later date but that’s a remote possibility. The best thing you can do to calm your nerves is ring them on 0800 121 4433 and ask for a copy of your report. That will give you a very good indication of what the DM will go with as they usually go with the report. 
    The decision can take up to 14 weeks as I was told only on Thursday 20/02/2020 because of backlogs they have.
    Hope this helps and good luck...
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 31,068 Disability Gamechanger
    As the report has been returned to DWP it's highly unlikely that a face to face will needed now.
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Thanks everyone. I think i will leave it alone for a few weeks. I dont want to 'upset' them by phoning and appearing impatient. My son has his current bus pass due to expire this coming april. It is set to expire the same date as his dla award ends.

    So if i havent heard by mid april, i will call them then. I think i will just try to settle and let their systems do what they need to do without me putting any spanners in the works.

    Im fully convinced he is entitled to an award and have plenty of fight in me to see this process right through as far as it can go. Hopefully, the dwp will make a good decision based on the evidence they have. It is obvious from the reports i sent and the responses i gave on the form that my son is a disabled person whose life revolves around activities set up specifically for disabled people.

    So i am hopeful that if they doubted the integrity of my evidence, they would have called us for f2f, rather than turn us down flat.

    I read too many stories in the press of severely disabled people turned down though. And that is what is causing me to doubt! I never had these worries with dla. And he always got his award no problem. So hopefully this also will go no problem. Fingers crossed
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Btw @poppy123456 I was totally thrown on the initial telephone call when you register a pip claim when they read the list of conditions and you answer yes/no as to whether you have the conditions.

    So im listening and answering No, no, no.
    Waiting for autism and LD to come up and then the question was "do they have severe autism?" "Do they have severe learning difficulties?"

    And i had to say No. It was only when i came off the phone i thought "what the heck is severe autism??!!!" That isnt even a diagnosis at all.  I assume they meant non verbal. But i should have asked for a definition really. 

    It is concerning that they dont stick to 'official' labels for diagnosis as listed in DSM V. 

    I suppose, if they are purely going on how your difficulties impact your ADL, then diagnostic labels mean nothing to them.

    But it is still alarming that they ask about severe autism when no such diagnosis exists. 

  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    I just looked at this last post of mine again but cant work out how to edit it.

    To make it clear that im not pouring scorn on 'severe autism' as a description at all (which is how i think my post reads and could cause offence maybe)

    I know that autism can be very disabling indeed, requiring 24/7 support. It is only the terminology as used by DWP that I was thrown by. As a term like severe can mean different things to different people and wont exist as a diagnostic label on a report by anybody qualified to place a diagnosis of ASD.

    Im sure DWP are using the term to describe a person who is non verbal/non speech sounds only and requiring a very high level of support round the clock. Which is severe, i do agree. Just that that isnt the 'proper name' for it.

    Hope that makes sense  :)
  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 984 Disability Gamechanger
    "So i am hoping the fact he is managing well just now wont go against him."

    @anisty Is it a question of things going against him?

    If he genuinely is managing better than when last assessed he may score less points but surely a massive positive is that the reason is that needs less help.
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Oh yes @cristobal it is fantastic he is doing well at the moment for sure but it isnt because he needs less help - it is because he is getting MORE help from outside agencies. So that has taken the load off us definitely and it is wonderful to see him settled into support services that he is comfortable with.

    My only worry really is that if he gets no award at all, he will lose his free bus pass. Not only does that help financially (as he isnt sufficiently able to do paid employment) it means he doesnt need to handle cash or speak to the driver so it would be a massive loss.

    Without the structure of having something to do every day, he would quickly fall into a lack of routine, deterioration in hygiene and unhealthy sleep and eating patterns. The facilities that exist in our area are amazing, we are very lucky in that regard.

    If he gets any award at all, that will be brilliant and it will enable him to keep his bus pass.


Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.

Do you need advice on your energy costs?

Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.