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No points

cici2016 Member Posts: 14 Listener
Pretty ridiculous. Got his report back today. Now my husband can not count change, can no work out a food shop. 0 points and he can apparently manage a budget... because he drives so would’ve had to pay for lessons. Now had they bothered to ask they would know his mum paid for his lessons so there was no budget at all to do for driving. 
He got no points for not being able to cook. He burns or undercooks everything despite his mum who  is a cook training him he just couldn’t work it out. Apparently because he works he can time events, totally different knowing to show up for work at 9 everyday than timing beg, chicken and potatoes and knowing how long each get cooked and when to put them on.
they said he can communicate unaided. He is told multiple times a day can you repeat that because his speech isn’t clear. He struggles to understand instructions too. His work only gives him job at a tie because they’re an understandable employer. 
So basically if you can drive or work this goes against you? Because that’s what after every single descriptor they said. “He drives so the evidence does not support this statement” 
“he works so the evidence doesn’t support this statement” 
honestly after 6 months we do not have the energy to keep fighting this. 


  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,341 Disability Gamechanger

    Im sorry to hear this. You will need to wait for the decision to be made and once it has then he’ll have 1 month to request the MR.

    Yes people do work and drive and claim PIP. With working, if the work you do contradicts the reasons for your claim then it can go against you. 

    For the MR you need to put that In writing stating where you think he should have scored those points and your reasons why. Then add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him.

    I would advise against mentioning any lies/contradictions that may have been told in the report because they won’t be interested in any of those. Any complaints should be sent to the health assessment providers.

    Send relevant evidence with the letter to support the claim because they rarely contact anyone for this.

    Most MR decisions remain the same so you’ll likely have to take it to Tribunal. Waiting times for hearings are huge in most areas so he could be waiting at least a year for a hearing date. 

    Please have a read through the link I posted on your other thread. Having some understanding of the descriptors and what they mean always helps. Good luck.
  • cici2016
    cici2016 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Thank you, A doesn’t think he has it in him to do a tribunal it’s really upset him. The fact someone after one hour is saying he’s fine when he struggles so much is disheartening. He wants to just forget about it all now but he deserves help so maybe he will have the energy to argue it once the final decision is through 
  • sooze77
    sooze77 Member Posts: 20 Courageous
    Working and driving do not go against you unless there are contradictions. All you can do now is prepare for an MR and try and gather evidence or give examples of where you think the points have been scored incorrectly. 
  • cici2016
    cici2016 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    So would that include 
    - I believe he should get points for managing budget. You said because he drives he can manage a budget. This isn’t the case as he did not pay for his lessons and I manage his budget when it comes to insurance/petrol. 
    -I believe he should get points for reading and understand info. You say coz he drives he can read and because he passed a couple tests with lowest grade but he had a lot of extra support to achieve that which was noted (someone to read through questions, type writer, spellchecker and dictionary etc.) 
    you say nothing for cooking because he can show up to work on time which means he can process timing. But that has nothing to do with cooking itself. Showing up to work at the same time everyday isn’t the same thing as cooking meals.
    but obviously I’ll write this on the form better.
    then evidence could I include a note from his employer confirming he has multiple accidents and needs support with any form of paperwork and extra time for that as well. How they tend to give him instructions orally in small chunks. Etc 
  • sooze77
    sooze77 Member Posts: 20 Courageous
    Yes like this however l think it would be difficult to drive without having a good grasp of road signs and reading traffic boards etc. It is not just about knowing the way to go. During normal routes, obstacles can come up ant anytime if that makes sense. 

    I would try and get some assistance from Citizens Advice if you can or from a support worker. 
  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 987 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2020

    "This isn’t the case as he did not pay for his lessons and I manage his budget when it comes to insurance/petrol.

    "You say coz he drives he can read and because he passed a couple tests with lowest grade but he had a lot of extra support to achieve that which was noted"

    @cici2016 - I’ve only got my own assessment to go on but I think that you might have slightly misunderstood the ‘driving’ angle.

    None of the PIP activities cover driving.

    However if you can drive the DWP seem to assume a number of things. That you are able to get and and out of a car, sit for a reasonable period, grip a steering wheel and turn it, brake, change gear etc. Also they assume that you have sufficient cognitive function to be able to understand the controls - fuel guage etc - and the recognise and respond to hazards, and sufficient literacy to understand warning signs.

    I don’t believe - others may disagree - that they are saying if you drive you must be able to budget for petrol but more along the lines that, if you have the cognitive function to drive you are likely to be able to buy a newsaper and calculate the change from £1,

    Similarly with preparing food - if you can drive (and grip a steering wheel) they will assume I think that you can grip a potato peeler, or a knife, and have sufficient cognition to know what to do with them.

    They will make similar assumptions about going to work, dependent on what your job is.

    I don’t agree with this myself but it seems to me that’s what happens..

  • cici2016
    cici2016 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    I just don’t understand how to get him help. 
    He wants to better his job. He doesn’t want to claim help. He had no qualifications (except 3 low level foundation levels which he only got with help) .. he had tried for 4 years to apply for other jobs but is failing the maths tests (basic maths of change counting etc), he gets told his communication isn’t clear enough as when he gets nervous his speech becomes extremely mumbled and deep and even I struggle to understand him. Th reassessment lady had to ask him to repeat things multiple times.  But that’s not noted.
    he is becoming depressed over it all. He wants something more than where he is. But he is constantly turned down for reasons relating to his dyspraxia and other issues. 
    He doesn’t want to do the MR he thinks it’s too much for him. 
    But he wants a job he enjoys and can do well and the stuff he thinks he will enjoy he constantly is turned down for. 
    He’s a janitor just now he mainly cleans. His friend got him that job years ago because he was unemployed and struggling to get anything. He Tries so hard as well. Everytime we try get him into adult learning courses he is told he had to pay and we are pay to pay and can’t afford it. They say he ca get it free if he receives help for his disability and he can’t even get that. 
    Sorry feeling pretty rubbish. Does anyone have any suggestions on how he can get help as an adult that gets no help with their disabilities? 
  • sooze77
    sooze77 Member Posts: 20 Courageous
    I do think it would be worth a call to Citizens Advice or Adult Social Care. They will be better placed to point you in the right direction for any help he may be entitled to. 
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    I think the driving thing is a cognitive function thing. I had my son's cognition assessed when he was 13yrs (but i believe it stays pretty stable)

    He is now 21yrs and no way could he drive. Luckily he doesnt want to. 

    They told me his IQ was 85. Recently i was googling to see what sort of jobs someone with IQ 85 could do (my son has other things going on but i was just interested)

    And one of the things listed was driving jobs. After continuing in my google search, i came across something that said although you can drive iq 85, they do prefer 93 plus ( this was American site and nothing like this seems to be in uk)

    My son struggles with some of the things you mention and the reason he struggles is because he is a slow processor. He needs extra time to understand things.

    Maybe the assessor has assumed your man is unable to do these things due to low intelligence (like my son)

    Has your man got a diagnosis to show what is causing him to have his difficulties with words and money? That would help the assessors see it isnt an overall low intelligence causing it. Maybe. Good luck!
  • cristobal
    cristobal Member Posts: 987 Disability Gamechanger
    "Does anyone have any suggestions on how he can get help as an adult that gets no help with their disabilities?"

    @cici2016 - sorry, I'm not sure I've got any good suggestions.

    The only thing I can think of, and I'm sure that you will have considered this, is to aim for a job that doesn't need a maths test.

    Not sure how you find that info out though, other than looking at the individual job ads...

    Sory I can't help further...
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,341 Disability Gamechanger

    If your going to request the MR then i don't advise you to concentrate on the lies/contradiction that were told in the report because this isn't going to get him a PIP award. It will only weaken his case, if it gets to Tribunal and most claims do because only about 15% of MR decisions change.

    For help and support for his disabilities then you could refer him for a needs assessment from your local council.

  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
     I am in Scotland so dont know if an equivalent service exists in England. Here we have Skills Development Scotland, Fairstart and Remploy and they each provide training free of charge. 

    There must be something similar in England. Would someone at the job centre be able to set something up. Check out your local library too for info or citizens' advice.

    This link is to the Scottish services so you can see if this sort of thing could help:

  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    Just found your previous posts and see your man has severe dyspraxia - that will likely be why the driving thing has been picked up because it takes a lot of co ordination to drive. Certainly, be sure to mention if your man can only manage an automatic car because managing a car with gears does take quite a bit of co ordination and i suppose the assessor will see that as inconsistent with not being able to co ordinate knife and fork together.

    I cant find a way to edit my previous post. It sounds like your man has things like dyscalcula dyslexia which are causing the problem rather than low intelligence.

    I have a son with dyspraxia (not to a disabling degree) who didnt do great at school either due to really poor organisational skills but he is bright and doesnt have reading or maths problems so he actually gets on ok and lives many miles from us and holds down a job and flat. He said he is thinking about learning to drive and i suggested an automatic might suit him better but he says he will try manual first.

    It is a tricky one. Ideally, getting your man properly assessed would be the way to go, but that will be expensive now he is an adult. The other thing worth trying is fish oils. You will need to google as it needs to be a certain ratio of omega 3 to 6 but there is sound research to show that taking a daily fish oil supplement really helps dyspraxia.

    Boots used to do one called "eye q" and that had the right stuff in. Worth a shot. It wont help with the money/ spelling but it can really help with handwriting, knife and fork, tying shoe laces, doing buttons. Anything like that that needs co ordination. 

    There is tons of info online about dyspraxia and lots that can be done to help. All the best

  • cici2016
    cici2016 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    Thank you. He was diagnosed dyspraxia as a child but the doctor told his mum he would recommend further testing for Autism but she didn’t want him labelled because of the stigma that use to be attached and she feared it would hold him back. 
    He was also told he had dyslexia but that wasn’t on his record just dyspraxia. 
    He is awaiting a referral to see if they can update his diagnosis. 
    We are in Scotland so will take a look at that site. Thank you 
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering

    Try this one too. There's quite a few organisations is scotland that try to give a helping hand into work.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,838 Connected
    At the risk of asking the obvious... I’m not clear from any of the posts here as to what the specific physical or mental condition is. Now, you don’t have to have a diagnosis for PIP but you do have to have a condition which is physical or mental in origin and where the symptoms are accepted as real. So, forgive me asking, but what exactly are we talking about here? It sounds like mild LD but I’ve genuinely no idea and without that information all advice isn’t really relevant and can’t really be focused on the right issues. 
  • cici2016
    cici2016 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    I said above might have got lost in the comments. He has diagnosed dyspraxia but is undergoing further testing because as a child a doctor mentioned autism to his mum but she never followed up on it and neither did his doctor. 
    Thanks for the link I’ll have a look at that.
    my husband seems to b win a horrible position where yes his learning disabilities affect his life substantially. And it’s obvious to people once they know him more. But he is able enough to get by but struggles to do it to the point it affects his mental health too. 
    I’m hoping he can get access to some adult learning where we can help him get into something that doesn’t use the things he struggles with. 
  • anisty
    anisty Member Posts: 173 Pioneering
    On the face of it, from what you have said, i can well imagine the situation. He sounds a bit like both my boys rolled into one. As i mentioned earlier in the thread, one of my boys was identified with dyspraxia very early on as he was very clumsy, slow walker, slow learning to dress, self feed etc then problems right through school messy handwriting, poor organisation led to quite an anxiety problem

    But he is bright, really bright. No dyslexia and perceived as very able at school. He had loads of O.T., allowed to use keyboard at school etc.

    I do feel a bit sad looking back as when his brother came along (my disabled one) more focus went to him.

    Interestingly, my older dyspraxic lad has autistic 'traits' but not enough to qualify him for asd diagnosis. Like your mum, i never got him tested. He had some odd interests like his love of pylons and then he got into Chinese stuff which was a bit strange but he always had friends and was so much more able than my younger lad. 

    As a teenager, he rebelled against any help with his learning, refused the extra time on exams, was frustrated that all his pals were away to do computers at uni. He is a whizz at computers but unfortunately not at maths (definitely an element of dyscalcula and his organisational skills holding him back)

    Anyway, after drifting for a year or so, he met a partner online turned out to be great for him. He did get into uni miles away from home near his partner and did an arts related degree which he passed.

    But for the moment he is working unskilled retail jobs to get by.

    He has full insight into his co ordination problems but he seems to be able to compensate and his handwriting is lovely now. I think he is going to struggle to learn to drive tbh but time will tell. And living in his own flat has definitely forced him to sharpen up on organisational skills.

    He is lucky in a way that he has had other strengths to compensate. 

    My other son is far more affected by his difficulties but he lacks insight so is a happy soul without the anxieties of my older son. 

    It sounds like a formal diagnosis is the way to go for sure for your man and there are private centres in edinburgh and glasgow that will test for autism and do the cognitive testing too.

    If you do go down the MR route for his pip, I wonder if his driving instructor might write a supporting statement. Maybe if he has taken a few attempts to pass, needs the automatic and was taught by an instructor for disabled drivers, that could be useful evidence.

    All the best. I do understand how you feel. I often feel as if my least able son actually has the better deal as support has surrounded him from early days and he will have support all his life.  whereas my able son is seen as exactly that - able (even by us parents) so he has just had to go out and make his own way  and take on all the responsibilities of adulthood.


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