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Denied PIP at tribunal and they removed my original points

chloe2789 Member Posts: 6 Listener
edited March 2020 in PIP, DLA, and AA
So I have just been to the tribunal and they have not only denied my PIP but also removed any points I was originally awarded.
I don't know what to do, I have been out of work for 7 months, hoping to find a part time job, but don't know how long I will be able to do it.
I have fibromyalgia, autism, depression, anxiety and chronic costochondritis. Due to my husband's income I am not entitled to UC, but we still need a second I come cause we are in so much debt thanks to me not being able to work. 
I also wondered if there was a self referral that could be done for a care assessment etc? 
Any advice would be much appreciated. TIA. 


  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 15,268 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi Im sorry to hear your tribunal was not successful. You can self refer for a care needs assessment, this is on the website. There is usually a wait for an assessment but a OT will visit you and look around your home and discuss your condition and recommend any aids that they feel would benefit you.

    I suggest you contact step change which are a charity that specialises in debt management and advice and support for financial difficulties.

    I hope this helps I am sure there will be other members that will advise as well 

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,577 Disability Gamechanger
    HI and welcome,

    I'm sorry to hear this. PIP isn't awarded based on a diagnosis or your inability to work. It depends how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.

    You say they removed points, are you saying you had an award already in place before the hearing took place? I'm assuming you appeared in person, is that correct? If you already had an award in place, did they warn you before removing those points?

    As you have been refused, you now have 1 month from the date of the decision to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings and you can do this by emailing HMCTS. Once you receive them you need to find someone to find the error in law. If that isn't found then you won't be able to take this claim any further.

    Removing points could have meant that some evidence you sent may have contradicted another piece of evidence.

    You can of course reapply at anytime but doing so using the same evidence you previously used is likely to see another refusal. I'd advise you to get some face to face advice before starting another claim.

    I'd also agree to speaking to step change regarding your debt.

  • chloe2789
    chloe2789 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    At my initial assessment they awarded me 10 points over all. The courts removed all of them, but they did warn me in advance that it was a possibility. 

    I'm going to my doctor's asap to get some referrals sorted and try and get a new selection of evidence. 

    The court hearing was based on the end of 2018, but I don't really have any new evidence cause nothing has helped with my fibro so I've just been living with it as is. Didn't do referrals before as ultimately it wouldn't make a difference to my conditions, but if it's what I have to do to be taken seriously then I guess I'll have to. 
    Thanks for the advice. ?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,577 Disability Gamechanger
    You don't need referral's for any of your conditions to be awarded PIP. Being awarded successfully will totally depend on how your conditions affect you and having some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean will always help. It's not always possible to score as many points as you think. A poorly presented case often leads to refusal, even when appearing in person. You should also check through all of your evidence before sending it just incase something contradicts another.

    Have a read of this link and it will hopefully give you some understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.

    If you do reapply anytime in the future then filling the form out with as much information as possible and then adding a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you will also help.

    Also check this link by putting in your postcode to see what local advice agency is near you so you can get some face to face advice/help and support if you decide to reapply in the future.

  • chloe2789
    chloe2789 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Well they apparently didn't believe a word I said which is why I'm looking at getting some referrals sorted and letters from specialists before re applying. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 12,270 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @chloe2789 - Welcome to the community & thank you for joining. I'm very sorry to read about your tribunal outcome.
    I'd just like to add that I hadn't seen any specialists for years prior to having to migrate to PIP from a lifetime award of DLA. The only evidence I had was a letter from my GP, who could describe my limited mobility, & the damage I'd been left with to my right hand & arm. Normally a GP's letter isn't much use, as they can't possibly know how a disability impacts in activities such as dressing, cooking, etc. BUT, that's all I had. So, as Poppy says, you don't need referrals to any specialists, as they are no more likely than your GP to know how you get on with activities of daily living.
    Please be guided by Poppy, as she has helped thousands of Scope's members with their benefit enquiries. Spend your time carefully looking at the link about the PIP descriptors in her last message. This is the DWP's guide for the Health Care Professionals that do PIP assessments, so there is no better info than this. An understanding of this link will help you when filling out your PIP's 'How your disability affects you' booklet.
    I hope this helps a little, but please do let us know if we can support you in any other way. Also feel free to chat here any time. :)
  • thespiceman
    thespiceman Member Posts: 6,389 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @chloe2789   Pleased to meet you.

    Sorry to hear what has happened.

    Please if I can suggest look at these links for mental health charities.

    Using those links can beneficial to your mental health but also help this situation here.

    By having a support worker they will be able to access and give you any advice, information on this situation your are going through right now.

    All offer floating support advice guidance with benefits, health and wellbeing.

    Take clientele with additional conditions, illness or disabilities as well mental health.

    I used all three supportive, compassionate.  Supported me through many assessments and came with me to Tribunals.

    Might not be in all areas you can refer or speak to your GP.

    Please any questions happy to answer and help.

    Please take care.


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
  • chloe2789
    chloe2789 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    @chiarieds thanks. I think it helps if you were on the old system. I was applying for the first time and think I just wasn't prepared enough. I will know for next time. 

    @thespiceman I am actually seeing a psychologist on the 9th so hoping can start the process for mental health help there. Took 2 overdoses for my mental health to be taken seriously... Hopefully I will be more prepared this time. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,577 Disability Gamechanger
    Old system? do you mean DLA? if so then PIP and DLA are completely different benefits, with totally different criteria.

    May i ask if you've started to have a read of the link i posted above? It will give you a better understanding of the PIP descriptors, what they mean and the criteria. I strongly advise that you have a read and at least do some research because referral appointments will not get you a PIP award.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 12,270 Disability Gamechanger
    If you were applying for the first time (or migrating from DLA to PIP as in my case) it makes no difference. You need to understand that PIP is literally about as the booklet you receive says, 'How your disability affects you.'
    Whilst in the booklet you list your diagnoses, the emphasis is on how this impacts on activities of daily living & perhaps mobility.
    Hopefully an understanding of this will better prepare you next time, rather than seeking unnecessary referrals.

  • chloe2789
    chloe2789 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    I am have started reading the links and will continue to do so. But the fact they didnt seem to believe me even when I told them the truth makes me feel referrals and therefore medical professionals letters etc are my only option now. 
  • Bridget14
    Bridget14 Member Posts: 58 Courageous
    PIP assessor paid nice £32,000.
    I have had several PIP assessments and noted on each one the realities of life compared to what had been written, just receive same response we have looked at all the evidence.
    Please do not get down about this in the long run it will only affect you and those closest to you more. Keep appealing, applying and going. No legal aid for disabled people with this. 
    I believe this to be one of the unfairest benefits. I have heard about  people who walk, shop and work as carers, washing and dressing people who receive full benefit how can this meet the criteria? The disturbing fact is this benefit is causing more health issues to disabled people than anything else. The impact is understated and note it is not high on any party policies. 
    The system has cost more money than saved. Note MP's have just given themselves extra £20,000 per year for staff.
    Disability is talk the talk but they will not walk with us.
  • chloe2789
    chloe2789 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    @Bridget14 i am definitely trying to stay positive. ? I've been in touch with a couple of charities to get help filling out my forms for my new claim. 
    My husband is fantastic and so supportive which is great, but it's not fair on him. He's having to look after me, work full time and on top of that we just don't have enough money to live off. 
    We will work it out in the end I'm sure. 
  • thespiceman
    thespiceman Member Posts: 6,389 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @chloe2789   Thank you for reply. Mentioned seeing a psychiatrist.

    The charities I mentioned the links would support you with this, will attend and help you with any other issues.

    Please if I can .

    1.  Support workers do the following construct and consult with you a care plan to suit you.

    Could include activities, social anything therapy any thing else can help you.

    Medication, Doctors, any therapy need to share will be in attendance or even sign post you with in charity.

    Addiction, health problems and well being .

    2.  Benefits do the following fill in all forms the correct wording and enclose care plans a report on your problems difficulties.

    3. Discuss with you any additional information and guidance advice to add in, also attend any assessments.

    4.  Speak on your behalf . Prepare you.

    5. Look at anything else can advise and support on, employment, volunteering.

    Job centre plus and attend if you need to ask.

    Often many charities have in house employment supported services .  Look at other options or career changes including courses or further training.

    Organisations who support our Community.

    6. In house training on coping methods and strategies.

    Monthly support groups or use SKYPE or use On line support.  Issue Laptops, Note books for free.

    If service user has not got one and IT training.

    7. Send Emails to you each week and anything  could use to help yourself. Activities, support groups additional advice.

    I know anything you think they could help with ask.

    Housing Social, Utilities , Finance, Budgets, Money.

    Transport and looking at health issues you mentioned.

    Please hope that helps you to think about applying.

    If not applied my self all those years ago never be on here.

    Never looked at new directions in work and employment, totally new qualifications after being in admin.

    My addiction, my mental health, benefit big one DWP.

    Intervened , all I can say too long and complicated.

    Lets say was on a constant treadmill of acceptance and denial on my own for a long time. By assessors then met floating support changed all that.

    Every 18 months to two years acceptance one assessor am disabled and mentally ill . Two years later denial fit to work and so back and forth constantly.

    The charity intervened, still be assessed am middle fifties my opinion time to cease for those of my age and older.

    Started claiming early Eighties period of work, business then  Nineties claim and so it goes on.

    Reason why I implore those who have mental health and other illness to do the applications and benefit advice consult the charities.

    Please if I can help further please ask me anything.

    Please take care.



    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.


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