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New PIP claim refused, old claim pending 2nd FfT Tribunal

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katho31

louangel311 said:

Hi guys, REALLY need your advice! This is quite complex, so I will bullet point for ease of reading : )

- I applied for PIP in Jan 2018.The claim is all related to mental health, I cannot leave my home unless with my mum, and that's only for appointments. I live in a "bubble", cannot engage with people apart from via email/text/online. I see nobody but my Mum.

- Refused - I scored 2 points re help mixing with people & 4 points on Mobility - needs prompting to go on a journey. Not enough points to qualify for PIP.
- Applied for MR - refused
- FtT on 2 May 2019 - they spoke to me like i was something they'd stepped in - they agreed with DWP - appeal refused.
- I requested their Statement of Reasons - contradictions all the way through - and no reason was given as to why they didn't consider higher mobility descriptors
- Leave to appeal granted to the UT on errors of law - I was successful - I now have a newly constituted FtT panel set for a telephone hearing on 23rd June 2020

- I applied again for PIP on 6.1.2020 (although the DWP insist it was 26.11.19!)
- my health has deteriorated since my claim in 2018 - I have been moved from the UC LCW group to the LCWRA group (I appreciate it's a totally different benefit) & had started therapy with Birmingham Healthy minds & then..........we went into lockdown - The therapy was a two pronged approach - phone calls and visits from a support worker to try to get me out of the house and they had to stop.

- I had my PIP telephone assessment on 18 May 2020 (due to Covid 19). I had previously cancelled TWO f2f appointments as I couldn't travel there & they refused a home visit.
- I received their decision this morning - 0 points for anything

- I have asked for a copy of the assessor's report & will submit an MR.

This is where I really need your advice. I was a solicitor prior to becoming ill. So........I can throw every piece of case law at them that they've discounted or ignored. BUT..........I feel that because I'm intelligent, can write well & can still use the skills I trained for 20 years ago..........I get penalised & they don't take my illness seriously. So........do I do this or not?

The UT's decision regarding my first PIP claim is completely scathing of not only the DWP's stance, but also the first FtT's decision. As this was a totally separate claim - can I submit any of the judge's findings in my current MR?

Do you feel that if you are a claimant that will fight them all the way and then reapply, this goes against you?

I hope all of this has made sense and really would appreciate your thoughts.
Louise

hi, and welcome. Wow your post is very similar to my situation, different reasons for pip application but yes, you made complete sense. i too consider myself fairly intelligent, i have often thought of this as a reason of things going against myself? not sure but im just as frustrated. someone will hopefully respond shortly to your post. take care and stay safe.

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cat_hug

Louise, thank you so much for sharing your situation.

Mike, thank YOU so much for your fabulous replies, which I know have helped answer some questions for my own journey through the Pip appeal mire.

Louise, what you say about your past experience as a solicitor and inte,ligence, resonates with me too.

In hindsight, I think I totally shot myself in the foot with my FTT hearing by preparing my appeal 'too well'.

The irony for me however, was that immediately prior to losing my DLA and being denied PIP daily living (after a lifetime DLA award of middle care/low mobility since 1999 to 2019), I had been moved out of support group from ESA and into WRAG.

I had had my ESA MR rejected, but then when I appealed to take my case to tribunal, the DWP lapsed my appeal and found in my favour; thus reinstating my ESA and SDP as I was placed back in support group.

That appeal (ESA) was lapsed and found in my favour, Feb 2019.
Yet my pip application for daily living was rejected, not even two weeks later.

They had used the more detailed HCP report from my ESA, to reject my Pip claim. Despite the fact they had overturned the decision and found in my favour (under article 35 of the ESA regs).

When I pointed out this obvious contradiction in my Pip MR, I was told it was not relevent as they are two different benefits with different ways of assessing entitlement.

I was awarded 12 points for pip mobility under the descriptor of needing another person to help plan and carry out a journey.

At my FTT, they took no consideration of the social interaction difficulties I have, stating that this was covered under the mobility ruling and reflected in the fact I scored 12 points for mobility.

My Mum passed away four years ago and on her deathbed, she made my Dad promise her that he wouldnt allow me to 'retreat into myself and become a hermit'.

She knew how difficult I find it to interact with people socially. Firstly, its embarrassing to learn that people have often mistaken me as being drunk, or drugs, when they first meet me, owing to narcolepsy/cataplexy.
Secondly, over the last few years, I have had two younger sisters die suddenly and unexpectedly. One from a rare genetic adrenal tumour, the other due to suicide.

Shortly after my brain aneurysm and first stroke, the love of my life dropped dead just after id gotten out of hospital. He'd been working away and it wasnt until the police were at my door telling me he had suffered a fatal cardiac arrest, that I knew.

The last straw was my Mum getting terminsl cancer and for 9 weeks, watching her die in front of my eyes.
I suppose all of these things chip away at you gradually.

Likr you, telephone calls terrify me. I have to psyche myself up to make a phone call. Even to report a simple repair that I need on my home.

If my own phone rings, it fills me with dread. (Ive figured it out that it stems from the association of being told of a death of a loved one)

Even family gatherings or Dad asking if he can call in for a cuppa, make me feel really anxious. If anyone knocks on my door whom I dont expect, I try pretend im not in, because its easier than dealing with people.

I know it sounds silly and I cant give ryhme or reason as to why. Except that Im aware its been an insidious process that just sort of 'snuck up out of nowhere'.

My daughter lives abroad and son is away at university and has been for the past 4 years. (Daughter has lived abroad for 10 years)

Prior to the lockdown, when they both returned home to be lockdowned here, rather than alone, I could honestly go days on end withoit speaking to another person.

Id msg my girl via whattsapp and my son, being a lad, would msg if he needed anything.

Im afraid of social interaction far more than I fear the risks of making a journey alone. (which is ironic, as I was attacked earlier this year and I was not out alone!)

I totally understand your frustration at knowing when the law is not being correctly applied. This is especially true, rhen its somebody who really ought to know better and is tasked to DO better (like a FTT judge).

In hindsight, I regret menyioning caselaw in my appeal as I know darn well it didn't win me brownie points ( except an additional 2 on the cooking descriptor) haha.

When I had my pre-tribunal interview with welfare rights unit, to go through my appeal, she told me she wished all her cases were like mine. That I'd done her job for her.

There was very little added to my case from WRU as I'd covered all the bases as it were.

I was actually advised not to expect any further consideration on the cooking descriptor for which id been awarded 2 points for 'able to use a microwave'.

I had argued that nuking a pot noodle was not 'preparing a simple meal from scratch using fresh ingredients'.

Id been advised not to labour this point and that i had little chance of getting that changed.

That my strongest chance of getting the extra points needed, was in the social interaction descriptor. (which I also agreed , buy wasnt willing to concede the cooking, as ive had numurous accidents in the kitchen as a result of my health).

Guess Im digressing, but my point is, you never really can tell how its going to go, or even if the law is going to be correctly applied.

All you can do though, as Mike advised, is play devil's advocate with yourself. Pick apart your own arguments.

When you know, without a shadow of doubt that the law has been incorrectly applied, or evidence misconstrued, etc, then my advice there is to do everytbing within your power to correct that injustice.

To use the systems in place that are meant to safeguard your rights, to put right any wrongs, you have suffered as a result.

Yes, it does feel very personal when you read an assessor's report that states an opinion as though it were fact...and that fact puts you at a disadvantage.

The hard thing is remembering that that behind the offices trudging through your paperwork, is another person. A human being, with all the added extras that make up the humsn condition.

That goes for tribunal judges too. They are simply people, with their own faults, frailities, egos, whatever.

All we can hope for, is to show them a snapshot into our life and the difficulties we encounter that other people without disabilities dont face.
Its not easy and we dont always succeed.

Personally, I just go on my gut (if you will) and the knowledge that I know when something aint right.

And when its not right, you owe it to yourself to do whatever you can to change that.

Guess Im trying to say, trust your instincts and try not second guess yourself too much.

At the same time, consider others advice and alternatives as a way of remedying a problem.

Apologies for extrrme lack of brevity here. Thank you once again for taking the tjme to explain so well, your own situation.

Mike, thank you too for your valuable insights in response to the points raised here.

Keep fighting Louise.

Cat xx

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cat_hug

You are amazing! Please don't throw it to the wind, when you've come so far.

Nil sine illegitimi carborundum ;-)

Another favourite quote of mine is:

'Unless someone like you, cares a whole awful lot.
Nothing will ever change.
No it will not!

(Dr Theodore Seuss)

We have to do the right thing for us and for justice itself.

Big hug.
Cat xx

adamskis

I am mortified, but not surprised by your story.

we hear so much about mental health being as important as physical health, in all media, and government, until it comes to benefits!!
then it’s all about holding benefits back, and “scrounging”!

I found myself unable to work due to my illness, part of which is mental...chronic Fatigue...and that has been ignored in all documentation, or simply noted and not elaborated on.
It is time to REALLY acknowledge mental illness, not pay it lip service.
The OP should be entitled to benefits, the benefit entitlement criteria needs addressing, not forcing the claimant to jump through burning hoops, on stilts, that are different lengths, and on fire!

I hope you “win”, but claiming PIP should not feel this way!

[Deleted User]

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cat_hug

@Username_removed Oh bless you Mike, thank you so much for YOUR kind words.

Honestly, your posts/replies are incredibly insightful and informative.

Thank you so much for taking the time and patience, to reply in such a thoughtful and considered way. Truly does help, not just at a pragmatic level, but on a kind of intrinsic level too really (if that makes sense?)

Just...thank you. Xx

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Awesomelorenzo

PIP is so hard to get. My uncle couldn't get it and he is so bad. I didn't even qualify for anything.