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Pip medical assessment

jimbo71jimbo71 Member Posts: 6 Listener
Hi, I just want to share my disgust of my pip medical assessment that was conducted over the phone earlier this month, June 20.
I had a gut feeling from the during the assessment that the assessor wasn't listening and going through the motions, I immediately phoned the DWP after the assessment and requested a copy of the report as soon as it arrives as the assessor asked some strange questions. Do I live by a field? Do I have a mobile phone? I explained that she had phoned my mobile phone to carry-out the assessment!
I have been diagnosed with several life long conditions, PTSD (diagnosed by a consultant psychiatrist with over 30yrs service, he sat on the GMC board, a professor and a director of 2 trusts) AF, I've had 8 hospital admissions due to severe episodes, one of which into ICU due to an unplanned cardioversion, rheumatoid arthritis, my arthritis is do bad I take injection medication and steroids, I have other medical conditions which I am on meds for also, I take meds for my depression, AF, and for the other conditions, a minimum of 15 tablets daily, I've had 30 counseling session, over the past few years, I am under the physio department, I have had insoles made due to the pain I have in my feet, been provided, crutches, walking stick, wrist and thumb straps, knee and ankle supports, I have deformed fingers and toes from the arthritis. I am on numerous prescribed pain killers and have horrendous side effects from my meds which are changing to try and find what works best. I completed the pip application and stated the pain I'm in, the fact I can't walk on some days and sent additional supporting 40 pages to support my application, diagnosis and how my conditions are effecting me from my cardiologist/ rheumatologist/ GP/ counsellor/ the mental health crisis team / consultant psychiatrist and a 3page letter from my wife who gave up a well paid professional job to care for me and she put a daily diary of a typical day. I can't grip and my movement is so unreliable I can't be trusted to pick a pan up, I have a shower seat as I'm so unstable, my wife helps with all my meds, dosset box and passes me certain meds as they look similar, all on contained on the pip application. I asked the assessor if she had read my application and supporting documents and she said she had and that her assessment was to support my application!
I received her report and broke down and have had sleepless nights, she stats I slip into socks, have no side effects from meds, on moderate pain relief, omitted all the reports and the fact I have several aids, and because I can drive I'm able to walk and grip okay so can obviously cook. She said I didn't sound depressed and had a good rapport, even though she told me to take a few minutes during the telephone assessment as I became upset. I sent a report in to the DWP stating all the lies and that the decision maker couldn't make a decision on that report, I have received the decision makers outcome and I scored zero points,  I phoned the DWP and they received my report the day that the decision was made so they never looked at it, I have now lodged an MR and lodged a complaint with the assessors body and also a disability discrimination against the medical assessor. I have absolutely no doubt this will go to appeal but I haven't the mental strength to attend as my paranoia,anxiety and trust in people have been by her report. Does anyone know if I will have a chance if I opt for a paper hearing or am I wasting my time? Thanks


  • Kev2020Kev2020 Member Posts: 38 Connected
    Hi welcome to the community . The PIP assessment can be difficult but hang on in there. You'll get a decision and if your not happy you can get a review. But by the sounds of it you have provided enough info. As far as weird questions I was asked " would you give directions to someone who was lost? " 

    Do check back in and let us all know how you get on 😃
  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Kev2020

    Good Afternoon & Welcome it’s great to meet you today.

    I am one of the Community Champion’s here at Scope.

    We have got some info/advice on the pip process.

    Please please let me know if you need any help/support with things ?????

  • Kev2020Kev2020 Member Posts: 38 Connected
    Nice to meet you too .

    I'm a fellow online community champion 

    My background is early years and young people but along the way have experience in disabilities and social security.

    Always happy to help 

  • jimbo71jimbo71 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Thanks guys, appreciate the support and network, I'll keep you updated, finding this group is such a support mentally, I have been made to feel ashamed and as I don't have serious health conditions.
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,332 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jimbo71 Welcome and hello, sorry to hear about your assessment and the outcome. I thjnk with PIP less is more in relation to evidence they dont want to trawl through lots off papers. 

    If you want to take this further then the next stage is MR details where you think you should have scored more points and why giving real examples of what happens when you try to do the task. Most MR decisions are the same outcome but then it will be tribunal. If you need any support then just ask

    Yes you did have some wierd questions but @Kev2020 te one about directing someone if lost is another way of asking bout planning and following a journey
  • Kev2020Kev2020 Member Posts: 38 Connected
    I have what people call hidden disabilities so used to find it hard .  But from my experience talking is always good .  

    You can also check out the virtual coffee shop here where we all just chat about nothing in particular.

    Have a great weekend and just check back in if you need any more help.

  • jimbo71jimbo71 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    I've requested an MR, also submitted a complaint against the assessor.
    What I would like to know if anyone knows the answer, what would the outcome be or likely to be if I go for a paper appeal? I've been told it will take 16 weeks for the MR and goodness knows how long it'll be before I get to an appeal?
    The questions are laughable if the process wasn't so serious. I started this application in January.
  • jimbo71jimbo71 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Thanks keV, really appreciated mate 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,332 Disability Gamechanger
    Nobody can really tell if you would get a paper based appeal maybe once MR decision is made contact CAB or welfare rights to help with the appeal request for paper based 

  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Kev2020

    Good Afternoon.

    Yes I have also got “Hidden Disabilities” myself.

    These are more “Disabling” themselves to be honest.

    Please let me know if there’s anything that I can help you with???

  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 8,100 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jimbo71 - Welcome to the community from me too. I'm sorry to read about your PIP assessment. Many people are successful, but we read about the difficulties many members have had as they join Scope.
    What is so often misunderstood is that PIP is literally, as your claim pack says, 'How your disability affects you.'
    Whilst you list your medical issues & any medication you're on, the PIP assessment looks at your individual response as to how your disability affects your function with activities of daily living &/mobility. This because even someone with your unique combination of disabilities may be affected completely differently.
    So, your medical diagnoses won't be questioned (they are not in dispute by the DWP, nor any of us here), but not getting across your functional problems detailing why, how often, did this cause pain/fatigue, do any of the activities take you longer than someone without your disability, does the use of aids help you overcome your problems, how often do you have problems, what are the consequences of attempting an activity, etc.? may have been missing.
    A complaint against an assessor is a separate issue, as this doesn't win a PIP award, & unfortunately it would just be your word against theirs. The assessors also use some stock phrases, which often bare little understanding as to what you've said.
    May I just ask for clarification. It seems you've phoned in & requested a Mandatory Reconsideration. Have you then put this in writing, if not, people here may be able to advise?
    To answer your query, if you've sent in a written MR, then there's only about a 16% success rate. Prior to Covid-19 the success rate of paper tribunals was only 5-8%, whilst appearing in person was much more successful, especially if the person had representation. Overall the success rate of tribunals has recently increased.
    Currently, where judges can, tribunals can be judged on the paper evidence, but when they need to know more, then a phone tribunal is appropriate. By the time you get a tribunal things may likely have changed again as the current wait time is 30+ weeks.

  • jimbo71jimbo71 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Chiarieds, thank you so much for the above information, it does answer many of my questions.
    Yes I have written in as well as phoned to lodge my MR, I have received a text confirming I have lodged it.
    I have fully detailed how my disabilities effect me and the reasons I need aids, the assessor has ignored all my answers and all the supporting evidence that also stats how my conditions effect me and made up lies! I fully detailed how I am effected by my conditions yet the assessor's report is like it's another person's report? I know the complaint will go nowhere but only hope it helps future disabled applicants as I'm in no doubt she (the nurse) must if has previous complaints? and I'll take it all the way.
    5-8% success rate for a paper tribunal I'll take that, I am so paranoid and there's no chance my anxiety will allow me to attend, I may feel different nearer the time so  I wait to make my mind up, the MR won't be looked bat until October, so an appeal will be a year away from now.
    Thanks again for everyone who has replied and provided support and advice 🙏.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,006 Disability Gamechanger
    jimbo71 said:
    I've requested an MR, also submitted a complaint against the assessor.
    What I would like to know if anyone knows the answer, what would the outcome be or likely to be if I go for a paper appeal? I've been told it will take 16 weeks for the MR and goodness knows how long it'll be before I get to an appeal?
    The questions are laughable if the process wasn't so serious. I started this application in January.
    MRs have a 16% success rate. Anyone who tells you how to get into that 16% is possibly misleading you. The outcomes are essentially random. Assume, regrettably, that it does fail and you then appeal. 

    At present you will not get the opportunity to opt for a paper hearing. Emergency regs have knocked the distinction between oral and paper hearings on the head for the time being. 

    As @chiarieds has stated at present a salaried judge will preview your case on the papers. If they think they can make an award based on the papers then they will make a provisional award to which you and/or DWP can object e.g. if you don't like the rates awarded; the specific points scored or the length of the award. If you and DWP agree the provisional decision is fine then it gets finalised and paid. 

    If you don't agree with the provisional decision, or the salaried judge feels they can't make an award on the papers, then the matter goes forward to a telephone hearing before a panel of three. That is a complete re-hearing so, if for example, you reject some aspect of the provisional decision then at your telephone hearing you are once again starting from having zero points rather than what was in the provisional decision. 

    A really important point missed in this thread so far is that there is no "medical assessment" for PIP. The assessment for ESA is a medical i.e. they can do a physical exam etc. The assessment for PIP is a functional assessment and is an entirely different beast. This is an important distinction and one that people need to get their heads around in terms of their expectations of what ought to happen at such things e.g. they are not there to read all your medical evidence in detail. 

    I disagree re: complaints as I have lodged several over the years which have resulted in either a further assessment or a revised recommendation of more points which turned refusals into awards. There can be some merit in very limited circumstances. However, that is absolutely not the majority experience. Most complaints are, regrettably, going nowhere fast and you need to refocus away from the HCP report and reacting to it and instead focus on the strength of your own evidence. 

    You will most likely get nowhere with an EA 10 claim unless you can show that reasonable adjustments were unreasonably refused or that there was direct/indirect indiscrimination. That can't be judged from posts on a forum but I'm certainly reading nothing which points towards an obvious claim. Your energy would be better directed to getting competent advice and focusing on the appeal. 

    You appear to have taken a thorough approach to the claim but, frankly, 40 pages is far too much evidence. Less is more and I doubt there are any points made in 40 pages which could not have been made in 10 to 15. In order to focus your challenge I would strongly recommend you get advice at this point. 

  • jimbo71jimbo71 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Wow, that's some fantasic advice, more importantly, informative information to take on board. I submitted so much evidence as the reports were produced for a private pension that I could apply for as I am unable to work, which I was awarded. It all sounds like luck on who you get for the assessment and the decision maker, looks like I've ended up with a lying  HCP and a lazy decision maker that hasn't read my application and evidence and copied the HCP report. Hopefully the MR will be looked at by a fair and balanced decision maker?
    Making a complaint may not have a successful outcome but may help future applicants or even myself if there has been previous complaints.
    Thank you for your time and information given.
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