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Condition change with PIP

avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
This discussion was created from comments split from: Pip telephone consultation times.

Replies

  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi, hope everyone Is doing ok, 

    I am on pip daily living and end of April I found out I will have my condition for the rest of my life and doing physiotherapy as well for the rest of my life, when I ring pip to say about the change, what will they do and how does the procedure work?

    Thank you 
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi I am on daily living pip at the end of April I got told I will be having physiotherapy for the rest of my life and my condition to for the rest of my life. When I phone PIP what will they do?

    Hope to hear shortly 

    Thank you 
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    There will be no change in your award unless your condition has worsened over at least a 3 month period. 
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi Ami

    My condition has worsened as now I have got this for the rest of my life and doing physiotherapy for the rest of my too. As I got told in April about this.
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    I have just phoned DWP and they are sending me out a form and I will receive in 5 working days then I fill it in and then send it back to them and If I need an assessment again then I will have it via telephone, as they said it won’t stop your payments go higher or stay the same, they couldn’t give me a time scale how long it would take. I will still recieve my payments during this.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    Read the PIP descriptors carefully, if the same descriptors still apply to you, then the award is unlikely to change. If your condition has worsened and other descriptors now apply to you (one's that didn't apply before) then I would seek further advice to double check that a change of circumstances needs to be reported.

    Therapy is not necessarily a huge factor in making a decision, I have lifelong conditions and am likely to have physiotherapy for many years, others have lifelong conditions yet do not receive any therapy. 
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    The person who I just spoke to on DWP said she’s sending me out a form I have to fill out then send back to them and they will check and I might need an assessment via phone then I could get a higher award or it will just be the same award I am on now and my payments will still carry on while seeing where my circumstances have change 
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    Do you have any evidence of how your condition has changed? 
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    My physiotherapy told me on email which I have got about doing physiotherapy rest of my life and my condition too 
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    @chiarieds i would gratefully appreciate your opinion, do physiotherapists diagnose lifelong conditions or short-term issues? Thanks in advance :)
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,939 Disability Gamechanger
    Doctors diagnose, not physiotherapists. A physio might report back to a Dr, who might then take their information into consideration. :)
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you @chiarieds I thought so, but wasn't certain and thought you were the best person to ask :)

    @avakarlsson I would suggest seeking a diagnosis/up-to-date diagnosis from your GP/consultant before sending the form back.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @avakarlsson, how are you doing? 

    Gaining new evidence will be really helpful Do you know what your current award? It can help to look at the PIP descriptors to see how you potentially could get a higher award. I hope this helps. :)
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  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @avakarlsson, @Ami2301 and @chiarieds!

    Just to let you know that I have split the discussion and merged it with @avakarlsson's new thread. Just to keep things all together. :)
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  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks @Chloe_Scope it was getting confusing on various different threads.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,939 Disability Gamechanger
    The person who I just spoke to on DWP said she’s sending me out a form I have to fill out then send back to them and they will check and I might need an assessment via phone then I could get a higher award or it will just be the same award I am on now and my payments will still carry on while seeing where my circumstances have change 
    I don’t wish to cause any undue concern but the advice from DWP is wholly incorrect and I strongly recommend you get advice urgently before doing anything else. Several reasons for saying this.

    1 - finding out that a condition is lifelong may be a change of circumstances if your current award is less than ongoing/10 years as you could ask for the award length alone to be reviewed. However, to do that sort of review, where only the award length is on the table requires specialist advice; citation of specific caselaw to support the argument and absolute clarity. Get that wrong and your whole award is up for grabs.

    2 - the advice from the call centre which handled your call on behalf of DWP is wholly incorrect. If you ask for a review then, yes, your existing payment continues until that is decided, but, there is nothing which guarantees your award will, at worst, stay the same. That is worrying nonsense of the worst type. The most likely outcome statistically is definitely that it stays unchanged but there’s no guarantee of that at all. 

    3 - a change of prognosis i.e. how bad it might get or how long it might last, is not a change of circumstances in terms of the amount of benefit you might receive. It can only impact award length. The amount of the award will only increase if you score more points because the functional consequences if your condition(s) have got worse. Not just because you know a little more about it now.

    4 - doing physiotherapy will only impact one daily living descriptor - therapy - and even then that depends on whether you need help to do the physio and much more besides. See https://pipinfo.net/activities/managing-therapy-or-monitoring-a-health-condition. Few people need prompting to do physio so that leaves you with supervision or needing assistance. Very much depends on the facts of your case but if your prognosis  has been revealed by email then it’s unlikely to me that either would apply. 

    Do not complete the form you have ordered until you have sought welfare right advice. 
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,939 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2020
    I fear @avakarlsson is grasping at straws....they try to get more benefits where they have repeatedly been advised no others are available. So currently they're looking at the PIP award they have. They state that a physiotherapist has told them via email they will need physio for the rest of their life, which seems a tad unlikely. Also a physio diagnosed them, which wouldn't happen, as I mentioned above. Sorry you can't see the whole thread(s) @mikehughescq tho your info remains relevant.
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi thank you for your reply, it was said on FaceTime and email about having this for the rest of my life and doing physiotherapy too for the rest of my life, I was dismissed in May this year due to ill health grounds as I couldn’t do it anymore due to the chronic pain and I struggle lots now, where I have had it years it’s just getting me down and feel frustrated as how long it is taking, I am on daily living pip and universal credit 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @avakarlsson i have been away from the forum for quite a few months and have returned today. I remember you, i also remember giving all the advice there is to give you regarding your benefit situation. I did advise many times that there's no other benefits that you're entitled to.

    I must admit, i've never known or heard of anyone have physio for the "rest of their life" Even more so under the NHS. You were dismissed from your job by your employer but that isn't going to help a PIP claim because it's not about being unable to work.

    I would take Mike's advice and get some help, support and advice with filling out the PIP form because you could go on to lose your existing award.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,939 Disability Gamechanger
    Wooh. Pardon my enthusiasm but welcome back @poppy123456. Brilliant to have you back.

    I do wonder whether “have physio” is really “need physio”.

    I’m supposed to do physio at least twice a day for my L3 to L5 and my core strength and was told unequivocally it was a “rest of your life/as needed” scenario. I do 10 minutes hands free cross training instead and can get away without doing that for months on end provided I can keep my weight down and walk a lot. In that sense I can see that it might get said but it’s not necessarily suggestive of anything acute.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq thank you very much for those kind words!

    Looking at it that way, then i would agree with you. Although put in the way it was here, then i wouldn't agree. Even so, this doesn't mean a condition has got worse and of course you already know that.

    Looking back at comments by @avakarlsson they have constantly asked the question "what benefits am i entitled to" going from NS/ESA to NS/JSA and now onto PIP. It does make you wonder.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,939 Disability Gamechanger
    Just because someone has been told they have a lifelong condition, as many of us here have, doesn't mean they are entitled to some benefits.
    Hmmm @mikehughescq of course physio also helps, tho I might be a tad biased. A physio might advise appropriate exercises, which often should ideally be continued; this would usually be a short 6 week course to identify the problems, & give guidance. I'll let you off as you're walking a lot, which is often the best form of light exercise to do.
    A 'need' for physio may be for an acute problem, or a long-standing one, but doesn't confer an entitlement to a benefit, nor convey any condition has necessarily worsened.
    In my own case, I had a bit of a battle with some 'specialists.' I couldn't possibly have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome as my muscle strength was near normal......without exercising appropriately, it would not have been so. Still I'd rather continue exercising than get worse.


  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi everyone the form came in the post to me on Thursday, where my posture isn’t straight my physiotherapist said I will have this the rest of my life and do physiotherapy to for the rest of my life, it’s a shame about my job but I couldn’t cope, I had my appeal for my work capability and when I had the appeal they awarded me LWCRA they said and when I went onto my universal credit journal it said LWC so I have chased it up a few times and the DWP have to as my case manager will sort it out for me I didn’t no I had a case manager but DWP told me my Case manager will sort this all out for me as yet I haven’t even spoken to them, hope this week coming I will speak to my case manager  
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You should have had a letter from HMCTS with your award notice on there. What exactly did it say? If you can state here the exact wording i'll be able to help you further.

    If it says LCW and not LCWRA then DWP will not be able to change that award and you won't be entitled to any extra money for UC.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • laurapeachlaurapeach Member Posts: 99 Courageous
    Hi everyone the form came in the post to me on Thursday, where my posture isn’t straight my physiotherapist said I will have this the rest of my life and do physiotherapy to for the rest of my life, it’s a shame about my job but I couldn’t cope, I had my appeal for my work capability and when I had the appeal they awarded me LWCRA they said and when I went onto my universal credit journal it said LWC so I have chased it up a few times and the DWP have to as my case manager will sort it out for me I didn’t no I had a case manager but DWP told me my Case manager will sort this all out for me as yet I haven’t even spoken to them, hope this week coming I will speak to my case manager  
    I think what Mike and Poppy are asking is if anything has changed in regards to what you can and cannot do each day, knowing you'll have the problem for the rest of your life won't change the amount of points you receive, it just MIGHT make the award a bit longer. So say when you first applied you could cook food with aids, if that is still the case they won't change the amount of points you get. It has to be a deterioration in what you can or cannot do, a new diagnosis etc won't change anything unless it impacts on your daily living or mobility.
    Mum of one, I have M.E/CFS, POTS, Central Sensitization Syndrome and Joint Hypermobility Syndrome.
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi 
    yes I have noticed with my walking I can only walk for a couple of mins then have to stop due to how chronic my pain is, sometimes when I am about to eat I sometimes don’t want it due to how chronic my pain is, getting dressed I struggled doing the lower part of me, but now my mum has to put my jeans and socks on for me now as I can’t do it due to my pain and I would get tired, and when I go out and about if I have never been to the place before I couldn’t go along as I would get lost or I could maybe go if I had instructions or went to the place before just to give me a proper idea where it is and what way to go etc but normally my mum would come.
  • avakarlssonavakarlsson Member Posts: 332 Courageous
    Hi everyone 

    sorry I haven’t been on here a while my pain has just been so so chronic and unbearable so that’s why I haven’t been on here. 

    I sent my pip form back last Wednesday 12th as they needed it back by last Friday (14th) 

    I phoned up yesterday to see if they had received it as I didn’t get any text message to say it came, so they have said it is with the case manager and marked as urgent so hopefully it shouldn’t take too long to hear back.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Do be aware that there's no timescales for any decision. Your form will be sent to the health assessment providers before a decision can be made. Face to face assessments are still suspended and telephone assessments are currently taking their place, most people have them so expect one of those.

    Your current PIP award will continue until a decisions been made on the change of circumstances.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Member Posts: 7,440 Disability Gamechanger
    Did you hear back about your LCW decision?
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
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