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DWP made an offer

jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
edited July 2020 in PIP, DLA and AA
hi im after advice.ive had my pip stopped.i didnt score enough at my medical so my enhanced rate of pip was stopped.im now in que for tribunal but pip have now made a counter offer that im entitled to daily allowance of 59.99 which is 30.00 a week less than i used to get before they stopped my pip.theyve given me until tommorrow to accept or decline stating i could end up with nothing at all if i dont accept and the backdated money is now over 2000 at the lower rate theyre offering not including the sdp which would be another 2,000 or more.i feel intimidated and realy confused as to what to do .can anyone advise me please.if i did go to appeal and won i would get an extra 1000 backdated money and a further 120 a month aswell but they say i could end up wit nothing at all.

Replies

  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jinn4609

    Good Evening & Welcome it’s great to meet you today.

    I am one of a team of Community Champion’s here at Scope.

    Sorry to hear about your current situation/problems with your pip application.

    We have got some senior members who will be able to offer some help with things.

     Hi @Adrian_Scope
    @Chloe_Scope

    Can you please offer me some help/advice with this post????

    They are currently in a battle with DWP over there PIP Application.

    They have been given until tomorrow to accept a much lower amount of there PIP or nothing at all.

    @steve51
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    HI and welcome,

    It's entirely up to you whether you choose to accept the offer or decline it and continue to Tribunal. It's extremely difficult for anyone to give any advice here because no one knows exactly how your conditions affect you.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    thanks.i suffer badly from trigeminal neuralgia and my illness changes day to day as im in constant pain .ive been on various medications which havnt worked .im waiting to see a neurologist at rvi.i also have developed other problems due to this thanks.i also dont know if ill be entitled to my sdp back if i accept the lower rate of pip.i used to get an extra 65.00 a week on my esa due to this.ive been on ugov but cant find answer
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm assuming you were previously claiming Enhanced daily living which is £89.15 per week and you've been offered standard daily living, which is £59.70 per week.

    If you're still living alone or classed as living alone as you were when you were previously claiming PIP then yes you'll be entitled to the SDP on your ESA. It will also be backdated to the date it stopped.

    Hope this helps and you'll be able to make a decision that's right for you.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    ok thankyou very much for that info,much appreciated.it makes it harder now to decide whether to accept their offer then as that would be a firther 2000 in back money i would loose aswell if tribunal did not go my way thanks.ive also been told today i could accept the offer then open a new appeal in the future but id have to go through the process again.i dont know how true this is thanks
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,187 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jinn4609 I hope the advice given is of some use to you, it must be a hard decision to make.

    Do you think you would score any more points at tribunal to give you the higher rate ? 

    The DWP will warn you about, the possibility of losing at tribunal but that is the risk we all take, by them making a counter offer shows they have relooked at the original decision and now making an award.

    The tribunal is an independant panel who make take a different view which could or couldnt be in your favour
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    i dont think i can score anymore tbh as im awaiting to see neurologist at rvi .i suffer severe trigeminal neuralgia but they could argue its a self enflicted illness.as ive smoked and drank too much in past and all nerves are now damaged to my face and specialist treatments arnt working sofar thanks.i been told i could loose my sdp permanently aswell now if i dont accept their offer so im looking at a loss of over 4000 if tribunal dont favour my appeal
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,997 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jinn4609 - I'm sorry you feel pressurized to give an answer tomorrow. Unfortunately other people have felt the same. See: https://samedifference1.com/2020/03/03/dwp-accused-of-offering-disabled-people-take-it-or-leave-it-benefits/
    So it seems you can accept an offer, but still continue appealing without having to do a Mandatory Reconsideration, rather than 'have to go through the process again.' Consider also for how long their offer was (an award of only 2 or 3 years perhaps), if this was mentioned.
    I will ask @mikehughescq for his advice; thank you Mike.



  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    i got told off advisor today i could accept offer then appeal again at later date but not sure if info is right.yesterday i got told if i accepted offer tribunal and appeal would end thanks
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,187 Disability Gamechanger
    If you dont think you will score any more points then no point going to tribunal 

    I dont think they take into account it being self inflicted but I may be wrong I am sure lots of illnesses are down to people lifestyle choices 

    I would see what mike has to say b4 deciding 
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    thanks i just visited that page.if i loose though i loose 4000 backmoney and 480 a month aprox if i accept im loosing 850 backmoney and 120 a month as id also loose my sdp permanently aswell its very difficult one
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,997 Disability Gamechanger
    @jinn4609 - Please wait for @mikehughescq 's response if you can. He is the best possible person here to advise.
    You shouldn't be facing this dilemma. If the DWP have 'offered' an award of the PIP daily living component, then you wouldn't lose your SDP.
    Also, as mentioned above, the tribunal are independent of the DWP, & it would seem a strange scenario if they then concluded you should get less than the DWP are currently offering.
    If you don't hear from Mike tonight, please check in early tomorrow morning. You could also say you need more time to decide.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    ok well i appreciate your advice dwp going call me tommorrow ill ask them and see what they say then about more time . i agree i asked dwp if because theyve now made the offer surely tribunal wouldnt offer me less but they said this is  a temporary offer strange like as they said their health advisor says im entitled to it but at appeal i could loose the lot including all back money along with sdp if i dont accept their offer.its such a mess for me as im currently on 400 a month instead of about 900 or more it doesnt seem fair.all i sent them was evidence of my medication etc for them to make this offer thanks
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    chiarieds said:
    Hi @jinn4609 - I'm sorry you feel pressurized to give an answer tomorrow. Unfortunately other people have felt the same. See: https://samedifference1.com/2020/03/03/dwp-accused-of-offering-disabled-people-take-it-or-leave-it-benefits/
    So it seems you can accept an offer, but still continue appealing without having to do a Mandatory Reconsideration, rather than 'have to go through the process again.' Consider also for how long their offer was (an award of only 2 or 3 years perhaps), if this was mentioned.
    I will ask @mikehughescq for his advice; thank you Mike.
    I can’t actually put it any better than this. A nice accurate summary.
    jinn4609 said:
    i got told off advisor today i could accept offer then appeal again at later date but not sure if info is right.yesterday i got told if i accepted offer tribunal and appeal would end thanks
    The advice from the adviser is spot on. You can accept the offer; get the benefit into payment and then lodge a new appeal without having to do a further MR. It is also correct that if you accept the offer then your current appeal lapses. That does not prevent a further appeal as described by your adviser. 

    On the other hand, DWP offers are a form of blackmail. DWP are making you an offer which gives you more than your original decision but less than you’re asking for. That’s quite deliberate as is the “if you can carry on you might not even get this” nonsense. 

    Think about it. It’s the equivalent of saying “we’re breaking the law to make an award for you but a tribunal have to apply the law properly.” Clearly it’s errant nonsense. DWP would not make an offer if it wasn’t supported by your evidence or the law or if they thought the tribunal would award less. They know damn well that their offer is not more than a tribunal would likely offer. It is likely less. 

    The general trend is that at least one of the components will be offered at a rate below what you’re asking and the length of the offered award will be for a period plucked out of thin air. 

    So, you’ve a judgement to make. 3 options:

    1 - accept the offer; have appeal lapse and leave it at that.

    2 - accept the offer; have the appeal lapse; get benefit into payment; make a new appeal. 

    3 - refuse the offer and go to appeal. You have an adviser. Part of that role is to assess what your entitlement ought to be. 

    1 likely leaves you with a payment which is a payment but most likely incorrect in at least one aspect. 2 is a long route to 3. 2 or 3 could equally lose you everything but frankly that is unlikely. 

    There is no right answer here. There is only the right answer for you. I’ve had people where I was 99% confident the offer was tosh because my assessment of entitlement was way higher and justifiable in every respect. Some people nevertheless just accepted the offer. I’ve one who has done 2 even and several who’ve done 3. In all cases I’d have recommended but it’s not my income and it’s not my choice. You’ve an adviser. Use them to make the decision you feel the most comfortable with. 
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,941

    Scope community team

    Hi @jinn4609 and welcome to the community. 
    I'm really sorry you're in this difficult position. I hope that the advice offered has been useful and helped somewhere with your decision. 

    Please let us know how you get on. :)
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    hi thanks im still confused as to what to do .i mat reluctantly take the offer as i think tribunal might award me nothing like dwp said they might
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,997 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @jinn4609 - Did you not hear from the DWP today after all? I hope you've been able to look over Mike's advice, as he says it would be unlikely for you to be awarded nothing with a tribunal, & he helps people with their appeals. Tho as he says, you should make the decision that you feel best. Has your advisor helped you further?
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    no help and dwp appeals team went home when i got thru.could i accept offer and claim backmoney then open a new appeal to try get higher rate re instated ?or would this affect it if i accept the lower offer just to guarantee the back money isnt at risk of loss at all cheers and thnk mike.theres still a slight chance as appeals are different during covid
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    jinn4609 said:
    no help and dwp appeals team went home when i got thru.could i accept offer and claim backmoney then open a new appeal to try get higher rate re instated ?or would this affect it if i accept the lower offer just to guarantee the back money isnt at risk of loss at all cheers and thnk mike.theres still a slight chance as appeals are different during covid

    Please have another read of Mike's reply. Yes you can accept the affer and then make another appeal at Tribunal. Accepting the offer doesn't affect anything at all.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • chiariedschiarieds Member Posts: 7,997 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 2020
    Hi @jinn4609 - an affect of accepting an offer now might mean it might take that little bit longer to appeal the DWP's 'revision', rather than just waiting for a tribunal in the normal course of events. This may result in less money (than you might potentially receive) in the meanwhile, whilst you wait for a tribunal to decide, who will likely advise the same, or a higher award. Please do look at the length of the award the DWP are offering, as a tribunal may recommend an award of longer length.....which saves you having to look at PIP again perhaps in the near future.
    And yes, tribunal success rates are currently higher.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    But there’s a chance I could loose everything though isn’t their
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    Please read my post on this again. It’s all covered.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,652 Disability Gamechanger
    How are things going @jinn4609?
    Community Partner
    Scope

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  • katho31katho31 Posts: 694 Member
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    ive now been intouch with pip twice since my post and both advisors insist that if i take their offer of daily rate that i cant carry on with my appeal at tribunal.they say becuse they scored me zero point at assesment then changed their mind and awarded me daily rate that i cant carry on with appeal if i accept the offer,ive been intouch with scope advisor over the phone who said that i should be able to carry on with appeal after acepting the offer and to speak to a decision maker about this.the normal pip advisors state that i definetely cant carry on with appeal on this claima nd they will write to tribunal and cancel appeal if i acept the offer.any advice would be appreciated as ive now got conflicting information
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    he also said i cant launch another apeal on this claim is this right
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If you accpet the offer then this appeal will end yes BUT as has been advised you can then start a fresh appeal at Tribunal and the wait will start from the beginning again. Of course you will receive your payments while you wait.

    Naturally DWP are going to tell you that you won't be able to continue with the appeal... Not correct. Please read mike's advice again above.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    i have thankyou again for your advice so now i understand this appeal will end but theres nothing stopping me starting a new appeal .ive just today also recieved an email saying tribunal will be sending a letter with a decision and a date for hearing needs set which i dont understand as i havnt been to appeal and dont know what they mean by decision?
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    so i would be better off taking offer and lodging a new appeal but im unsure of the process thanks

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    jinn4609 said:
    so i would be better off taking offer and lodging a new appeal but im unsure of the process thanks


    The process will be the same as it was for this Tribunal. Once you accept DWP offer then this appeal lapses.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    ok thanks can i ask if accepting this offer to stop me loosing my backdated money would it affect new appeals decision or outcome thanks its just its now over 4000 im standing to loose if i loose my appeal tahnks.im frightened to loose it because im now in debt by loosing my benefits
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not sure why you would think you'll lose your backdated money if you accepted this offer. No, you won't lose anything.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    sorry i meant if i didnt accept offer and went ahead with current appeal i could possibly loose backmoney if tribunal went with dwp first decision of me scoring zero before they revised it thanks.they say i coulkd loose everything.
  • laurapeachlaurapeach Member Posts: 100 Courageous
    jinn4609 said:
    sorry i meant if i didnt accept offer and went ahead with current appeal i could possibly loose backmoney if tribunal went with dwp first decision of me scoring zero before they revised it thanks.they say i coulkd loose everything.
    if DWP have offered you something now it's because they know the tribunal will offer you the same, if you go to tribunal there's the possibility you would be given a higher award which the DWP don't want as it means more money being paid out by them. If you accept the offer you won't lose your backpay and you can still take it to tribunal once your award is being paid.
    Mum of one, I have M.E/CFS, POTS, Central Sensitization Syndrome and Joint Hypermobility Syndrome.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Sounds to me like they are trying to scare you. Whatever you decide to do it's your decision and only you can make it, no one else. Good luck, what ever you decide to do.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    thanku not to sound greedy i think ill take offer to guarantee backmoney then lodge an appeal afterwards as my illness is still same and im not getting better just it means ill have benefits back in payment while i appeal again as im heavily in debt now.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    DWP normally ask people to decide whether to accept an offer within 24 hours. I suspect your wavering has already cost you the opportunity to accept the offer.

    The email to which you refer above is the one where your appeal had just been previewed by a full-time salaried judge. This is a new C-19 process. If the judge thinks your appeal can be decided in your favour on the papers alone then they’ll issue a provisional decision which both you and DWP have to agree. In your case the judge has likely decided they cannot award on the papers alone so they’re going to list you for a telephone hearing. 

    It no longer matters whether you accept the offer now. The offer will have been ended.

    A week ago I suggested you needed to choose one of three options and talk to the adviser you said you had. You’ve done none of those things so now you’re likely going to have a telephone hearing. 

    That, I think, is where we’re currently up to. Time to talk to your adviser about representation. 
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    hi thanks for reply.i have been intouch with pip several times but the person i needed to speak to wasnt available each time so theyre going to call me supposedly and they said the offer is still open because its not my fault i couldnt get intouch with the advisor.ive now however recieved a detailed account of my appeal through the post which liusts all previous correspondance and of my last pip appeal in 2017 which i actually won.the letter from dwp attached asks that the tribunal dont award me mobility which is fair enough but its asking them to uphold their decision of daily living allowance so im not sure whats happening now ,it says they changed their original findings but couldnt get hold of me ! im unsure which way things are going now and it says the appeal will conytinue but on friday i was told the offer was open thanks
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    None of that changes anything really. DWP won’t know that a decision has already been made to list the appeal as a telephone hearing. The speed at which you’ll now get listed means that, even if you accepted an offer, DWP would likely be writing to liaise the appeal after it had been heard.  
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    ok if the letter is stating theyve changed their decision and asking the tribunal to uphold their decision not to award mobility and that they offered me the daily living allowance do you in your opinion think i could still walk away with nothing? and ive lost my advisor now thanks
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    What you’re talking about is the DWP submission within the appeal papers. Their sub is simply stating their position i.e. what they think the award ought to be and in fact what it turns out their offer is. 

    As stated previously, for DWP to take that position they must accept that’s what the evidence shows at minimum. 

    Legally a telephone hearing is a complete re-hearing of your case so when you start the hearing you’re starting with nothing. However, as DWP have already conceded the evidence suggests standard rate daily living it’s unlikely the tribunal would then award zilch. It remains possible they could award nothing, but unlikely. Without knowing the facts of the case in depth it’s simply not possible to say any more than that.

    Either way your “offer” is now a dead duck. The appeal is going ahead and the equivalent of the offer is in the appeal bundle. The tribunal may or may not agreed with the DWPs reading of the evidence but, as previously stated, offers are almost always less than a tribunal will likely award. 

    I would suggest we leave it there. Your offer is effectively in the appeal bundle and your appeal is likely going ahead. There’s a danger of hideously over-thinking this. Your options were the 3 in my earlier post but debating and delaying means you have effectively accepted option 3 as the way forward and that’s all there is to it now.
  • jinn4609jinn4609 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    ok well thanks for your advice thanks i hope i havnt made an error with not being able to get intouch with the appropriate advisor thanks
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    As per my post on the 15th there is no “right” answer here. You are where you are.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks @apple85 but that’s essentially the same article as was posted earlier in the thread.
  • apple85apple85 Member Posts: 14 Connected
    For me if the dwp are trying to settle early out of court then they think there’s a good chance they will lose. At least that’s what my common sense is telling me - why would the dwp offer money if there’s a good chance they would of won the tribunal and you would of got no money.

    theres only one good reason to take a dwp offer - if you are so exhausted by the whole process and want it to be over - which is a very good reason however it does set a precedent that the dwp can successfully bully you into potentially taking a lesser award.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,987 Disability Gamechanger
    Well first of all it’s not a court and never has been. It’s a tribunal and thus a very different beast.

    Secondly, all my responses on this thread have made the point that an offer is the minimum you would get at an appeal hearing.

    Thirdly, in theory bullying should not be involved. It’s generally good practise ti not prolong a case when you know you’re on the losing end of it. In practice of course people do accept offers and people do not get told they can take the money and then appeal anyway. So, yes, bullying by omission is a not unreasonable conclusion. 
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