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MR for DLA in NI

deebronny
deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
edited August 2020 in PIP, DLA, and AA
I was hoping someone could give me some advice on doing an MR in Northern Ireland I have recieved the statement of reasons and wrote a letter arguing with the points and referring back to the evidence I supplied but I dont know if I can just send that letter along with a copy of the statement of reasons or do I need to send off a particular form as well. I tried checking online but just see conflicting advice...any help is appreciated 
Thank you
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Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,627 Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    I see from a previous thread that you were waiting for a Tribunal hearing for your childs DLA, is this the same DLA claim as that one? If so have you had the hearing? If you have then you won't be able to request the MR for that claim.

    You can only appeal that decision if there's an error in law.
  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    No I submitted a new claim because I found out that I had been incorrectly advised about not being able to and having to wait until after the tribunal. Their reasoning for turning down the new claim was pathetic if im honest....i sent in great pieces of evidence and explained my son is attending a special needs setting this coming school year....his statement of educational needs is now in place and I want to send it off as additional evidence also but I just don't know if I need a particular form to send off or if I can just send my letter with the statement of reasons 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,627 Disability Gamechanger
    edited August 2020
    Oh dear, starting a new claim while waiting for the Tribunal wasn't the best idea. Using the same evidence you previously used continuously will likely see more refusals. It also affects the timescale of the award that can be given for the first claim, if the Tribunal is successful.
    .Or Just write a letter.

  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    The first application was filled in with "help" from another organisation and they didnt go into any detail at all and told me there was no point as they only have a certain amount of time to read the forms. There was no evidence at this time either so I'm expecting the tribunal to turn us down because I would if I were them. The new application, I done my research, used the cerebral guide, looked at the decision makers guide, explained in great detail the difficulties my child faces and how his care needs are more than a typical child of his age. I sent in supporting evidence, used key words and spent a week writing drafts of the answers before finally filling in the form. I just wanted to know if there was anything else I needed to send off with the MR or if my letter and additional evidence was enough  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,627 Disability Gamechanger
    The Tribunal won't refuse him because no evidence was sent with the claim pack. Anecdotal evidence will always be the best you can send.
  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    Sorry I dont understand what you mean?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,627 Disability Gamechanger
    . Anecdotal evidence will always be the best you can send.
    In other words, real life examples.

  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    I had planned on cancelling the appeal if he was awarded as I dont need the stress of it all. I have 3 children 2 of which have problems that are completely different from each other, one is asd and developmentally delayed (this is who I've applied for) the other has problems with his foot and hips which require weekly hospital trips to a special clinic that is 70 miles away from our home. I am defeated if im honest so this MR is the last bit of fight I have left in me to be honest and I want to do it right 
  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    . Anecdotal evidence will always be the best you can send.
    In other words, real life examples.

    oh right I see, I mean i will try to make them understand his difficulties and the extra care he requires, our original date was 3rd of April and this was cancelled due to the current situation, im now waiting on a phone hearing but I decided to apply in June as its been over a year since the original application and I am struggling with replacing everything he has broken and replacing clothes hes chewed through, sensory items, another new bed and TV is needed as hes broken them again for the 3rd time...im really at my wits end and just dont know what to do anymore 
  • Cher_Inactive
    Cher_Inactive Posts: 4,412

    Scope community team

    edited August 2020
    Hi @deebronny

    I am sorry you are going through such a challenging time applying for DLA.  It can be an exhausting process so no wonder you feel at your wits end.  I hope you are looking after yourself as well as you can throughout this.  

    I wondered if you had ever thought about applying for a charity grant to help replace some of the furniture? This link takes you to the National Autistic Society N.I. website who might be able to help with that https://www.autism.org.uk/services/ni.aspx  I know its not an ideal solution though and I have my fingers crossed for your DLA claim.  
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  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    Hi @deebronny

    I am sorry you are going through such a challenging time applying for DLA.  It can be an exhausting process so no wonder you feel at your wits end.  I hope you are looking after yourself as well as you can throughout this.  

    I wondered if you had ever thought about applying for a charity grant to help replace some of the furniture? This link takes you to the National Autistic Society N.I. website who might be able to help with that https://www.autism.org.uk/services/ni.aspx  I know its not an ideal solution though and I have my fingers crossed for your DLA claim.  
    Thank you so much, i will definitely take a look at this. I'll keep you updated on the MR
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    deebronny said:
    ... explained in great detail the difficulties my child faces and how his care needs are more than a typical child of his age. ...used key words 
    Two red flags for me right there. 

    1 - it’s not about explaining the needs. It’s about giving real world examples of the attention/supervision needed in connection with each bodily function. 

    2 - what are these “key words”? There’s no such thing and I find it genuinely worrying this kind of myth persists. If you don’t mind me asking who flagged up these words as key?
  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    @mikehughescq
    1. I did give real world examples how else would I be able to explain what he is like daily? When I say I wrote down everything in great detail, I mean every thing that I do for him that is more than a typical child of his age.
    2. With regards to key words, I mean words such as prompting, encouragement, unpredictability, overwhelmed etc instead of words or phrases such as, without me telling him, cant, wont, gets upset etc.
    For example instead of saying "he cant use a spoon without me telling him to" i wrote "he is unable to use a spoon without constant prompting and encouragement" 
    Although this may seem like a red flag to you, after looking into the actual dla decision makers guide and many others i have seen that it is important how you word things because you need them to understand that these are issues he struggles with due to lack of understanding and not something that he's choosing not to do because he doesn't want to.
    Hope that clears up what i meant.
    I only asked a simple question in regards to MR as I was unsure if a specific form was used and I wanted a little advice and support. I wasn't expecting to be ridiculed for how I filled in the form and the decision I made to reapply whilst waiting on tribunal. Now maybe it wasn't supposed to come across that way but that is how the majority of replies have made me feel.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Posts: 8,847 Connected
    No-one is “ridiculing” you. More trying to ensure that all the detail hasn’t been misdirected in the same way I would agree with @poppy123456 statement about the wisdom of a fresh claim. 

    The words are red flags to me because I work in welfare rights; have done so for a long time and know that by and large the replication of words used in the law or guidance isn’t of any specific benefit. The example you give is a really interesting one as, as written, it’s assertion and not evidence and if, and only if, it’s a reflection of the form completion then it suggests exactly why the award may not have been what you were aiming for. 

    So, whilst I agree with your rephrasing, it’s still an assertion i.e. it’s just “he can’t do x unless y”. What’s missing there is an example of specifically what happened the last time this occurred. When, where, his, why, who witnessed, what happened next. That level of detail. 

    The detailed examples are what makes the difference. Anyone can say “I fell x times last week”. Only 1 person can say “I fell x times last week. The most recent fall took place in the kitchen after breakfast when my left knee gave way as I turned to put my coffee on the worktop, My wife witnessed this. I fell onto my knee and onto the palms of my hands and had to use the stool and counter to get back up. This took around 3 minutes. My wife couldn’t help because she didn’t understand the movements I needed to make. I ripped the palms of both hands open” and so on. 

    You have assumed an awful lot about your new claim and your great evidence. If entitied we would all want your child to get DLA. I appreciate you posted for one thing but people here are sharp and helpful and if more than one person can spot issues then your choice is to hate on them or maybe pause and take on board. 


  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    I wasn't hating on anyone, I was expressing how I was feeling even if it was unintentional. I can not help the way I feel in the same way that you can not control how something you say may make someone feel. Im not trying to say that I know everything so I apologise if it has come across that way as it was not my intention.
    Honestly the amount of conflicting advice I have recieved from people who work in welfare rights has made me a little skeptical, for example here im being told anecdotal evidence is best, a different organisation is saying base it on his worst day (which I found out can be considered fraud), another says that its about explaining care needs etc. so you can see my frustration. I havent "assumed" anything I have stated that I cant understand the decision because of everything that was recorded and wrote in the form, including real life examples with evidence from medical professionals, education psychology and speech and language to back it all up. All I want is help but everywhere I turn it just seems that people like to tell me what I've done wrong instead of advising the me of the right things to do and so this makes me a little defensive. I apologise if I've come across as a hater or a know it all, I am just exhausted and don't know where to turn next.
  • atlas47
    atlas47 Member Posts: 243 Pioneering
    edited August 2020
    Hi @deebronny

    Have you tried speaking to Law Centre NI tel: 028 9024:4401, they have a good reputation in Welfare Rights circles.

    I find the more face to face advice you can get the better (though in these times it will by phone).

    Also check out YouTube for Law Centre NI videos on how Appeals, are conducted.

    Please let us know if we can assist further.

    Stay kind and be safe.

  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    atlas47 said:
    Hi @deebronny

    Have you tried speaking to Law Centre NI tel: 028 9024:4401, they have a good reputation in Welfare Rights circles.

    I find the more face to face advice you can get the better (though in these times it will by phone).

    Also check out YouTube for Law Centre NI videos on how Appeals, are conducted.

    Please let us know if we can assist further.

    Stay kind and be safe.

    I will check these out thank you. Just to clarify I think you guys here do a wonderful job and I am grateful that you have taken the time to reply to help. I'd hate for misinterpretation between me and other advisors to reflect how I truly feel about this community 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,627 Disability Gamechanger
    It is very difficult to read someone's comment through a text message and can often be missread, which often happens here on the community.

    The advice you had about basing it on his worst day is the worst advice i've ever seen and no one should ever do that when filling out these forms.

    I know it's frustrating when a decision doesn't go in your favour but this is the 2nd time you've applied and the 2nd refusal. Maybe it's time to change how you present things because to continue the way you are will likely see many more refusals.

    The real life examples in exactly the way Mike advised is the absolute best advice you will ever receive, whether ever you go to get that advice. Medical evidence really isn't needed.
  • deebronny
    deebronny Member Posts: 31 Connected
    edited August 2020
    It is very difficult to read someone's comment through a text message and can often be missread, which often happens here on the community.

    The advice you had about basing it on his worst day is the worst advice i've ever seen and no one should ever do that when filling out these forms.

    I know it's frustrating when a decision doesn't go in your favour but this is the 2nd time you've applied and the 2nd refusal. Maybe it's time to change how you present things because to continue the way you are will likely see many more refusals.

    The real life examples in exactly the way Mike advised is the absolute best advice you will ever receive, whether ever you go to get that advice. Medical evidence really isn't needed.
    I know, the first time I applied there was very little details put on the form as I was wrongly advised that I didn't need to write lots of explanations etc which I now know is incorrect. The reason  I am so disheartened with the 2nd application is because of the amount of effort I had put into it, including real life examples of how he is and what we have to do to protect and care for him as well as protecting our younger children from his outbursts. I was always under the impression that evidence to back up what was being said was essential. I have wrote out a diary over the last week to try and help with the MR and if its turned down again ill leave it for a while a reapply with a different approach. Thank you for understanding I wasnt trying to be difficult, im just a mum running on minimal sleep trying to do right by my children x
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 28,627 Disability Gamechanger
    You're welcome. Re-applying with another different approach isn't the answer because you'll be stuck this constant circle of reapplying.

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