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What are the reasons for which you have been denied PIP?
Ross_Scope
Posts: 3,136 Scope community team
What are the reasons for which you have been denied PIP?
Our Campaigns team would like to hear from you to support our We Won't Be Forgotten campaign.
Please comment below with your stories from the last year – trying to keep your answer as short and snappy as possible. Answers will be shared anonymously on Scope’s social media channels to help promote our campaign. This is to support our current action to email your MP our Welfare Guide, and make sure MPs commit to our key changes to improve the welfare system.
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Replies
Didn't look anxious
Arrived for assessment alone
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Didn't sound anxious
Was able to remember what is wrong with me
Doesnt have any diagnosis of learning difficulties (I was applying based on my mobility and anxiety)
Doesnt always takes meds so pain mustn't be bad (I need prompting to take my meds and I made that clear haha)
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I never claimed to have difficulty moving around..?
(I still got my PIP on the correct mental health grounds that I was applying on though after MR.)
I think this is kind of relevant as it shows someone somewhere perhaps didn’t read or listen to something properly.
PS came across this looking for reptile pictures but none in here
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I could walk into the room with a walking stick...(I was slowly hobbling in!)
I could get up and sit down...(with the help of my walking stick and the arm of the chair)
Based on the above,I could walk over 200mtrs repeatedly
I could talk in sentences
I could focus on the questions being asked of me!What was I supposed to do focus on what was out the window?
There was a lot more they wrote which was untrue as well.
Unbelievable how they get away with writing these lies.
However it should be noted that we read a lot on the internet about bad decisions and less about good ones and yet there are far more good than bad overall.
PIP isn't perfect but too many people fail to realise that it is different than DLA.
Just thought I'd throw a bit of balance into the mix.
Basically she lied, when I asked for it to be looked at again they took away the small amount of money I had been awarded, out of pure spite imo, for challenging them.
And now I have cancer which will take me out they are probably high fiving each other for the extra stress and poverty they have caused me. They are pure evil. Thats why so many are put through this hell.
https://www.mariecurie.org.uk/help/support/benefits-entitlements/living-with-terminal-illness/personal-independence-payment
I don't know time scale as I instructed oncologist to not tell me, I can't cope with knowing it. It's hard enough trying not to count down passing days, so I will get nothing basically 😢
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Blue Badge can be done online now, much easier, no stress for that at least 🌻
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Read the question over and over again. before answering. I had to appeal every time. The notes from the appeal showed me that I was not really answering the questions the way they wanted. So I went over the form i filled in and found what I was doing wrong. I am not saying that next time I have it sussed just that I can answer the way it is written.
All the above reasons I had them all.
I challenged most of them Example can walk 50m with a walking aid, but was not awarded any points
you get points if you have to walk with an aid. I then said why have you stated that I can walk 50m with a stick when you could clearly see that I was struggling to walk and breath as I could not answer your questions for a good 15 minutes. I received full points on that one in the tribunal..
I disagree with some of what you have said. You can record the assessment. However, you have to give them notice that you want to record the interview. Not sure why you have to give them notice. Also, I spoke to an MP about my case last year and she told me that she had received more than 100 complaints about the assessment and the lies told. She explained that a lot of other MPs are receiving the same complaints. She wanted to tackle the issue but she lost her seat. I had my forms filled in for me as my Doctor arranged for this to happen, and they were telling me the amount of complaints they were dealing with and how different sections of their organisation around the country were receiving the same type of complaints about lies on the assessment. So my question is, why do some assessor lie. I don't understand what they gain from telling lies on the form. As far as i understand, the assessor who lied on my application last year,and who was investigated no longer works for them. The people in charge of the assessment decided to do an investigation themselves and they asked for ourside organisation to do another investigation as they wanted me to see it was taken seriously. I have I think posted what they said on this page. It seems to be a common problem about lies being told, but as mentioned I do not understand what assessors would have to gain from doing this.
MPs getting complaints is evidence of nothing. Many people who get refused PIP and complain will often simply not qualify for PIP.That’s a reality which gets overlooked. The number of complaints in isolation tells you nothing. You also need to factor in that MPs themselves know **** all about PIP and what they do know will often be in firmed solely by what their often very young employees tell them about what’s coming through the door.
There are masses of cases of it, my own included.
Blatant, flat out lies. Yes, I recorded mine.
You repeatedly stick up for those people like a politician.
Why?
Time and time again there is evidence of their lying - not their 'interpretation' and not that we who apply didn't do the forms well enough (mine were done by CAB, they know what they're doing!).
You come across as condescending toward those of us who are put through the PIP mill.
Frankly, and I can only speak for myself, your posts make me feel degraded the exact same way as when speaking to those who are paid to put us through sheer PIP hell.
- what sort of aids?
- were they prescribed aids?
@shella it was easy enough to see which bit was your addition. The issue is solved if posts aren’t endlessly quoted and are just replied to instead.
https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/132
There were other areas where I felt the HCP had extrapolated inaccurately, in relation to my medications and my insight to my conditions. I focused on those in my MR and received an increase in both DL and Mobility.
I think @mikehughescq advice is very sound on this matter - attempting to prove someone has deliberately lied about anything is a lost cause in any area of life.
I think more likely interpreted in a different way sometimes thry ask the same question in a different way which then the person gives a different answer
So to say they can't be used is incorrect.
To say they don't help is incorrect.
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3671-secret-pip-assessment-recording-leads-to-appeal-tribunal-win
- a summary decision, which is from a template and never explains the weighting of evidence, and,
- people interviewing the claimant and accepting their assumption that the recording won the appeal. There is no evidence of that at all.
The case doesn’t even set a precedent on the admission of illegally obtained evidence as there’s more than enough case law on that already.
Even B&W say “as a result” when there is literally no evidence at all that the case swung on the admission of the recording. Correlation and causation are two different things.
My CAB advisor did tell me a transcript of mine would be best in case of lack of correct equipment for the panel members to play back a recording.
Further, assessments CAN be recorded, and requested that assessors do so, 3days notice just has to be given.
People need to to know what can be done and what can be used, not be given incorrect information.
The link is there for anyone to read and make up their own minds/discuss with whomever is directly helping with their own case.
Notice to record varies from provider to provider. I do wonder if your CAB adviser told you how much a transcript would cost and that if you obtained one that it’s weight would have been reduced as evidence precisely because it wasn’t done officially.
You posted: 'mikehughescq said:
1) one CAN legally record the assessment.
2) Transcript of recording. Doesn't need to be the audio.
I stand 100% by my comments.
For the avoidance of doubt
“9. Posting on our website
You agree to:
- expensive
- admitted by a tribunal but given very little weight.
Have you made an MR since this?
Personally I find the Mobility descriptors are discriminatory. The biggest issues I have in life are about getting out, but because I can walk & drive very short distances, and have to go out alone because I can't deal with any other people (including family members), will never fit the mobility descriptors. I just had to accept that and was awarded daily living through tribunal in the end.
The reason driving is used against us for mobility is because you need good mental capacity to do it - which largely rules out anyone that can drive for the planning and following a journey part. You will also have been asked if you can use a sat nav or Google Maps for this reason. Although there is the odd exception, the vast majority of people that claim PIP and drive their own Motability cars are people with physical disabilities who cannot walk further than 20 metres.
Basically it comes across that the assessment is used when its in the DWP's favour but as soon as something on it can be questioned in the favour of the claimant they are then supposed to just ignore it and offer additional evidence even though the original (and sometimes incorrect) information was used to make the decision in the first place.
However, I could also see where the HCP was specifically trying to dispute my claims though. With regards to food preparation for example, I have severe OCD around contamination and harm - essentially means I can't use any sharp knives or fresh foods and have to rely solely on pre-prepared items. But because I can use a game controller it was deemed that I could use a veg peeler so no points awarded...
I also suffer with agoraphobia, vertigo, motion sickness and IBS that make getting out anywhere near impossible, I can't use any form of public transport, have to rely on my own car to go anywhere, need a specific type of car, plus one that I can rely on 100%...but because I can walk and don't need assistance to go out I don't meet the mobility descriptors. Surely the mobility side of PIP was purely designed to help people that have to spend more on transport due to their health conditions!
I was mainly awarded for 'mixing with people' due to agoraphobia and social anxiety (possibly ASD but undiagnosed) and got a couple of points for food prep and nutrition as well. Just looking at those points paints a very different picture of my life than the reality though.
Scope community team
Hi everyone!
I feel it’s necessary to interject at this point with a few reminders:
· PIP is a contentious issue that understandably leads to heated exchanges as to the efficacy of the system. While we accept this will happen, it is important threads do not descend into unconstructive arguments and personal attacks that are both offensive to individual members and deviate from the OP’s query. As such, when it is becoming evident that points of view are irreconcilable, please move on to other discussions where productive dialogues can be had. To read more about the principles underlying our community, visit the online guidelines.
· Presenting accurate information is vital to ensuring we protect our members from further disablement (that which results from not getting what they are entitled to because of improper messaging). However, it goes without saying that tone is equally important to convey information in a manner that doesn’t make people feel further oppressed, misunderstood or demeaned. Please bear this in mind when taking the time to construct posts.
· Lastly, when quoting members’ comments, please ensure you are doing this accurately to avoid misrepresentation. Although in the heat of the moment it may appear that you are, it is always worth taking a step back to question whether your interpretation is accurate or whether emotions may be biasing your response.
Although I think this has now been clarified, to reiterate in response to the question 'can you record a PIP assessment?' – the Citizens Advice webpage states:
Thank you everyone for your contributions and your shared passion around fighting for equality for disabled people.
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Most businesses and organisations now routinely record telephone conversations and advise callers of this fact at the beginning of a call. There is absolutely no reason why the DWP themselves should not be employing this system at present. Modern technology makes it very easy to do these recordings and they could easily be forwarded to a claimant on request just like they do with the paper based report.
In the case of an MR or Tribunal the claimant could easily use timestamps for relevant sections of this recording so that they are not forced to listen through an entire assessment.
This would not involve any need for DWP to invest in any expensive technology whatsoever because all this can be done on an average PC which the department already uses.
The amount of problems employing this system would solve is immense and would actually result in the whole process not only being more efficient but also less costly.
(edited for spelling error)
It is claimed that the majority of the time the DM goes with the recommendation of the assessment. As soon as a claim goes past the decision stage and into MR or Tribunal the assessment is on the whole disregarded if what you and others claim is correct, yet for the decision process it seems to be the main deciding factor in the majority of cases.
Tribunals seem to overturn a lot of these decisions made off the assessment, so to me it suggests that the assessments themselves are not reflecting accurately the reality of the claimants situation so why is the DWP still using them as the main factor in the decision process so often when theres a lot of data suggesting that they are not effective in a lot of cases and why have they not been revised to correct this problem?
1 - there is to some extent certainly a cultural issue within DWP. How do you repeatedly go against the report produced by an organisation that you have funded to produce such reports. Based on the stats, most people would understandably conclude that they do not and all they do is follow the recommendation. I used to believe this but I no longer do.
2 - I have alluded to and sometimes stated outright on here that the bigger issue is what is it which allows a DWP DM to do that. Ultimately it’s a lack of understanding as to what PIP is about on the part of claimants allied to a poor claim pack. I take at least 2 hours to obtain the information I need from claimants in order to do a claim pack. To then translate that into a quality form with additional sheets takes me between a day and a day and a half. That level of effort translates into most of my disability benefits claims being successful straight off. Almost none of them involve medical reports; letters from GPs or any other form of medical evidence. It’s all about detailed examples and nothing more. In all cases where an award is made the claimant has a HCP assessment but it does not derail the claim because I have covered all the bases and anticipated the inferences. “My claimant has no usable central vision. They cannot “make good eye contact”. They can only be polite and look towards where a voice is coming from.” would be an example. When the HCP then ignores the claim pack or hasn’t had sight of it I don’t spend time at MR. That DWP cultural instinct interferes. However, a well done claim pack will always sideline the HCP report.
People tend to think that if we had medical professionals that would fix it. We had that from the 1970s to 2013. It didn’t work. Private companies certainly don’t work either but as long as government continues to believe some kind of “independent” report is needed then the solution really lies with the claim itself rather than trying to fix a HCP report. You fix it by removing the gaps in your evidence not by attacking the gains in theirs.
Not sure of your agenda here. I am talking 2020. Not sure why you find it hard to believe about assessor lying. i suggest that you do listen more to people's experiences and what they have gone through. I personally find some of your replies insulting to those that have gone through assessments where the assessors have lied. I have spoken to many people about this because of my experience including a news editor, CAB, and other organisations who are looking into this.
When I started to help my mum, we were first referred to the local authority welfare rights team and I thought this was to "general" that we refused their help and declined their offer of helping with the form.
Me and my mum had started to put together our written submission and this time we accepted the help from a local sight loss charity and they wrote the most horrendous stuff that I had ever come across and wanted us to send every hospital letter, medical records, prescriptions, assessments that had been completed, etc. I disagreed.
In the end we spent days writing the claim pack, specifically referring to detailed examples, and focusing highly on what we knew they needed to know.
We included nothing, apart from a copy of her CVI (certificate of visual impairment). Yes, she had a face to face and the assessor who was a nurse and a really lovely person was kind, friendly and asked for clarification on a few things. Again when answering questions my mum specifically gave examples.
First time claim, awarded first time (Standard care/Enhanced mobility), no MR or appeal needed, no evidence apart from the CVI and the report we requested before the decision was made was spot on!
There is no doubt some HCPs record inaccurately. I have explained why that is. A very small number wilfully do so. There are bad apples in all walks of life. However, proving they lied is an entirely different matter as has already been done to death.
As long as one party to a conversation is aware of being recorded, it's legal.
What a recording is subsequently used for, that is what deems illegality or not, ie to use for criminal blackmail or to sell to the media etc. Not the recording itself.
This is my experience a and of a lot of others.
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Scope community team
The decision has been made for this thread to be closed permanently due to repeated personal attacks, inaccurate information and a poor tone that goes against the supportive ethos underpinning our online community.
Please be assured that any breaches of the community guidelines will result in disciplinary action, which may include a first warning, users being placed on moderation or lastly, banned.
To clarify any ambiguity surrounding the audio recording of PIP consultations, please read the following excerpt taken from the Government’s PIP assessment guide part 1.
1.6.58 Claimants may use their own equipment to audio record their face-to-face consultation, should they wish to, subject to any reasonable conditions the DWP chooses to impose on such recordings. These reasonable conditions are:
· the claimant must inform the AP in advance that they wish to audio record their consultation. This is to allow the AP to ensure that the HP scheduled to carry out the consultation is willing to be recorded. If the HP is unwilling to be audio recorded, an alternative appointment should be made with an HP who is willing
· the claimant must be able to provide a complete and accurate copy of the audio recording to the HP at the end of the consultation. For this reason, certain devices that are capable of editing, real-time streaming or video recording the session are not approved. Non-approved devices include (but are not limited to) PCs, tablets, smart phones, MP3 players, smart watches, and devices that are not capable of providing a verifiable media copy that can be easily checked during the assessment. Acceptable formats for such recordings are restricted to CD and audio cassette only
· the claimant must sign a consent form in which they agree to provide a copy of the audio recording and not use the audio recording for unlawful purposes
1.6.59 APs must publicise these conditions and ideally include them in communications sent to claimants before they attend a face-to-face consultation.
1.6.60 Video recording of consultations is not permitted. This is to ensure the safety and privacy of staff and other claimants.
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