What are the reasons for which you have been denied PIP?

TEACUPTERRIER

It's my right to record the session with their permission. I wish i had because my answers were different to what was written. Why are there so many people jumping to defend these liars? Many disabled people have had my experience it's not a few

MarkM88

You need to remember as well, they don't need to be a nurse or a doctor, they need to be a healthcare professional which can include paramedics and physiotherapists, they are not carrying out a medical examination and therefore don't need to know about individual conditions, they are there to carry out a disability assessment as it is a disability benefit, and this is carried out in relation to the PIP descriptors. 

happyfella

Username_removed said:

You cannot legally record the assessment and even of you did neither DWP nor a tribunal will have the means to play it. Very few assessors lie. They are there to form an opinion and make a recommendation. They’ve no responsibility to record everything you say. 

I disagree with some of what you have said. You can record the assessment. However, you have to give them notice that you want to record the interview. Not sure why you have to give them notice. Also, I spoke to an MP about my case last year and she told me that she had received more than 100 complaints about the assessment and the lies told. She explained that a lot of other MPs are receiving the same complaints. She wanted to tackle the issue but she lost her seat. I had my forms filled in for me as my Doctor arranged for this to happen, and they were telling me the amount of complaints they were dealing with and how different sections of their organisation around the country were receiving the same type of complaints about lies on the assessment. So my question is, why do some assessor lie. I don't understand what they gain from telling lies on the form. As far as i understand, the assessor who lied on my application last year,and who was investigated no longer works for them. The people in charge of the assessment decided to do an investigation themselves and they asked for ourside organisation to do another investigation as they wanted me to see it was taken seriously. I have I think posted what they said on this page. It seems to be a common problem about lies being told, but as mentioned I do not understand what assessors would have to gain from doing this.

MarkM88

I think one reason for giving notice if you want to record is not all assessors agree and are not obligated to do therefore you would need to be reallocated if your assessor was one of the ones to refuse. 

PatchG

Username_removed said:

You cannot record the assessment unless you give the notice abd have the equipment to make two simultaneous recordings. The notice is required because HCPs do not have to consent to being recorded and can choose to not take part so, unless you’re happy being cancelled, notice will always be needed to get a replacement. Utterly pointless though as I says because neither DWP nor HMCTS will access them. It also, wrongly, focuses people on the HCP assessment instead of the quality of the claim pack and your supporting evidence which are the actual key to entitlement. Proving a HCP wrong basically does that and little else. It is not the passport to getting PIP as evidence is assessed in the round.

There is no doubt a significant minority of reports contain factual inaccuracies as related by the Work and Pensions Committee but the accusation of lying is ill-informed. You can’t legally show that they lied unless you can get in their heads. You can only show they recorded something obviously factually inaccurate. The two are not the same and it’s an important distinction as people who accuse HCPs of lying tend to get nowhere the majority of the time and end up distracted from the task at hand. It’s also an approach based on the mistaken belief that the role of the HCP is simply to repeat what you say. 

MPs getting complaints is evidence of nothing. Many people who get refused PIP and complain will often simply not qualify for PIP.That’s a reality which gets overlooked. The number of complaints in isolation tells you nothing. You also need to factor in that MPs themselves know **** all about PIP and what they do know will often be in firmed solely by what their often very young employees tell them about what’s coming through the door. 

They do lie.
There are masses of cases of it, my own included.
Blatant, flat out lies. Yes, I recorded mine. 

You repeatedly stick up for those people like a politician.
Why?
Time and time again there is evidence of their lying - not their  'interpretation' and not that we who apply didn't do the forms well enough (mine were done by CAB, they know what they're doing!).

You come across as condescending toward those of us who are put through the PIP mill.
Frankly, and I can only speak for myself, your posts make me feel degraded the exact same way as when  speaking to those who are paid to put us through sheer PIP hell. 

TEACUPTERRIER

Well said patchG

shella

Username_removed said:

You cannot record the assessment unless you give the notice abd have the equipment to make two simultaneous recordings. The notice is required because HCPs do not have to consent to being recorded and can choose to not take part so, unless you’re happy being cancelled, notice will always be needed to get a replacement. Utterly pointless though as I says because neither DWP nor HMCTS will access them. It also, wrongly, focuses people on the HCP assessment instead of the quality of the claim pack and your supporting evidence which are the actual key to entitlement. Proving a HCP wrong basically does that and little else. It is not the passport to getting PIP as evidence is assessed in the round.

There is no doubt a significant minority of reports contain factual inaccuracies as related by the Work and Pensions Committee but the accusation of lying is ill-informed. You can’t legally show that they lied unless you can get in their heads. You can only show they recorded something obviously factually inaccurate. The two are not the same and it’s an important distinction as people who accuse HCPs of lying tend to get nowhere the majority of the time and end up distracted from the task at hand. It’s also an approach based on the mistaken belief that the role of the HCP is simply to repeat what you say. 

MPs getting complaints is evidence of nothing. Many people who get refused PIP and complain will often simply not qualify for PIP.That’s a reality which gets overlooked. The number of complaints in isolation tells you nothing. You also need to factor in that MPs themselves know **** all about PIP and what they do know will often be in firmed solely by what their often very young employees tell them about what’s coming through the door. 

I don't know who you are but you are speaking untruths and if you had gone through this disgusting PIP experience you would truly understand what people are saying.. They do out right lie, what happened in the assessment is not what is written on the reasons why letter.
You are not allowed to record. They tell you that when you ask. If the assessment's were recorded there would be no mistaking the amounts of lies hat have been told.
I have experienced everything that people have stated. How dare you invalidate what each person has gone through its bad enough you have to say things you would not say to anyone let alone yourself the thing you have to go through every single day then to see that they out right lied on what was said Then for them not to ask questions and assume. How can they say a person does not look in pain.......everyone handles things differently. 

shella

shella said:

Username_removed said:

You cannot record the assessment unless you give the notice abd have the equipment to make two simultaneous recordings. The notice is required because HCPs do not have to consent to being recorded and can choose to not take part so, unless you’re happy being cancelled, notice will always be needed to get a replacement. Utterly pointless though as I says because neither DWP nor HMCTS will access them. It also, wrongly, focuses people on the HCP assessment instead of the quality of the claim pack and your supporting evidence which are the actual key to entitlement. Proving a HCP wrong basically does that and little else. It is not the passport to getting PIP as evidence is assessed in the round.

There is no doubt a significant minority of reports contain factual inaccuracies as related by the Work and Pensions Committee but the accusation of lying is ill-informed. You can’t legally show that they lied unless you can get in their heads. You can only show they recorded something obviously factually inaccurate. The two are not the same and it’s an important distinction as people who accuse HCPs of lying tend to get nowhere the majority of the time and end up distracted from the task at hand. It’s also an approach based on the mistaken belief that the role of the HCP is simply to repeat what you say. 

MPs getting complaints is evidence of nothing. Many people who get refused PIP and complain will often simply not qualify for PIP.That’s a reality which gets overlooked. The number of complaints in isolation tells you nothing. You also need to factor in that MPs themselves know **** all about PIP and what they do know will often be in firmed solely by what their often very young employees tell them about what’s coming through the door. 

I don't know who you are but you are speaking untruths and if you had gone through this disgusting PIP experience you would truly understand what people are saying.. They do out right lie, what happened in the assessment is not what is written on the reasons why letter.
You are not allowed to record. They tell you that when you ask. If the assessment's were recorded there would be no mistaking the amounts of lies hat have been told.
I have experienced everything that people have stated. How dare you invalidate what each person has gone through its bad enough you have to say things you would not say to anyone let alone yourself the thing you have to go through every single day then to see that they out right lied on what was said Then for them not to ask questions and assume. How can they say a person does not look in pain.......everyone handles things differently. 

I do not know what happened here lol my reply is the second grey oblong 

shella

MarkN88 said:

You need to remember as well, they don't need to be a nurse or a doctor, they need to be a healthcare professional which can include paramedics and physiotherapists, they are not carrying out a medical examination and therefore don't need to know about individual conditions, they are there to carry out a disability assessment as it is a disability benefit, and this is carried out in relation to the PIP descriptors. 

But what happens when they do not follow that. What you say is correct but people are human I only won because I could prove they were not following the deciphers.. 

TEACUPTERRIER

Focusing back on the original post, the only explanation I was given is I didn't meet the criteria,even though I did by their own criteria with things like aids I use. I still scored zero despite the fact that I use several aids around the house and when I'm out for physical disabilities. 

Girl_No1

I had read a lot on this and other sites before making my application.  I was well aware of accusations HCPs "lie".  When I received my report it stated "You stated you can walk 200metres unaided."  My initial thought was "That's a lie!!"  I never said that and the matter of physical mobility was not discussed at all at assessment.  I took a step back.  Rethought the matter.  The HCP must have ticked a box saying something like "able to walk 200m+ unaided" and this translated into the sentence indicating *I* had stated this.  What on the surface was a "lie" i.e. I had NOT stated any such thing, was a reasonable assessment by the HCP as I do not have any physical mobility issues and these were not under discussion/assessment therefore it is reasonable to assess (or extrapolate) based on this I can mobilise unaided for 200m+ .

There were other areas where I felt the HCP had extrapolated inaccurately, in relation to my medications and my insight to my conditions.  I focused on those in my MR and received an increase in both DL and Mobility.  

I think @Username_removed advice is very sound on this matter - attempting to prove someone has deliberately lied about anything is a lost cause in any area of life.

Lisatho11987777

Its not nice to think that some one would deliberately  lie about you in an assessment 

I think more likely interpreted  in a different way sometimes thry ask the same question in a different way which then the person gives a different answer 

PatchG

Secret recordings can and have been used at tribunal (transcript of).
So to say they can't be used is incorrect.
To say they don't help is incorrect.

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3671-secret-pip-assessment-recording-leads-to-appeal-tribunal-win

PatchG

I disagree with you. The case in the link is more than clear. The transcript of the recording was allowed. Anyone stating that recordings, or transcripts thereof, are not permitted by tribunal, is incorrect. 
My CAB advisor did tell me a transcript of mine would be best in case of lack of correct equipment for the panel members to play back a recording.  

Further, assessments CAN be recorded, and requested that assessors do so, 3days notice just has to be given.

People need to to know what can be done and what can be used, not be given incorrect information. 

The link is there for anyone to read and make up their own minds/discuss with whomever is directly helping with their own case.

happyfella

You can use recordings at a tribunal, and that is from the horses mouth. With my case there were two investigations, and both investigations stated they did not believe the assessor was telling the truth on the report. My assessor claimed she watched me in the waiting room for 15 minutes and said i looked ok in the waiting room. However, the assessor turned up late and we actually saw her getting out of her car and appologizing to the receptionist for being late. This was also confirmed by the investigation. The assessor also claimed she asked me to do some tasks which she did not ask, and even put down the results. There were many other lies and i even received an appology for my experience. I was offered another assessment but i had lost faith in the system. I was also told to take it to appeal and was told i would win hands down. However, i did not have the energy. I only applied again towards the end of last year because my doctors kept on telling me to do it.

My case is just one of many. Lots of people are winning appeals because of lies on the reports and that is a fact. That is why people now get told to not only take someone in with them but also to record the assessment. I am not saying they are all bad, but there are some bad ones out there. Before COVID there were stories that some MPs wanted this looked into. It does not stand to reason why some assessors would lie as there is nothing as far as I know for them to gain from it. But, it is happening and happening a lot

PatchG

@Username_removed
You posted: 'Username_removed said:

You cannot legally record the assessment and even of you did neither DWP nor a tribunal will have the means to play it.'

1) one CAN legally record the assessment.

2) Transcript of recording. Doesn't need to be the audio. 

I stand 100% by my comments.

BrettW

Actually Mike as far as I'm aware it is not illegal for a UK citizen to record a telephone conversation either with or without permission. It may not be admissible in a court but the act of recording a conversation itself isn't illegal

OverlyAnxious

countrycreature said:

OverlyAnxious said:

Has a driving licence

Didn't look anxious

Arrived for assessment alone

did you appeal? how did you get round the driving part. It's a bit confusing. I have been rejected with being able to drive also given as one of the reasons but i dont understand how that can be an issue when plenty people in reciept of pip drive .... ?

Hi, sorry for such a late reply - I only seem to get notified if I'm tagged rather than quoted, will have to check my notification settings.

Have you made an MR since this?  

Personally I find the Mobility descriptors are discriminatory.  The biggest issues I have in life are about getting out, but because I can walk & drive very short distances, and have to go out alone because I can't deal with any other people (including family members), will never fit the mobility descriptors.  I just had to accept that and was awarded daily living through tribunal in the end.

The reason driving is used against us for mobility is because you need good mental capacity to do it - which largely rules out anyone that can drive for the planning and following a journey part.  You will also have been asked if you can use a sat nav or Google Maps for this reason.  Although there is the odd exception, the vast majority of people that claim PIP and drive their own Motability cars are people with physical disabilities who cannot walk further than 20 metres. 

BrettW

Its all a minefield @OverlyAnxious and even on here the advice is contradictory. On one hand people keep saying that the DM goes with the recommendations of the assessment the majority of the time, yet when people say that there are inaccuracies in the assessment they are told to forget the report and concentrate on other things. Its a no win situation a lot of the time and I think this is why tribunal's are a lot more successful than MR's. 

Basically it comes across that the assessment is used when its in the DWP's favour but as soon as something on it can be questioned in the favour of the claimant they are then supposed to just ignore it and offer additional evidence even though the original (and sometimes incorrect) information was used to make the decision in the first place.

berry123

I'm.so anxious it's coming to reality I have my assessment in 2 weeks I'm.just over thinking but my daughter assures me mum you be fine.  I'm planning to make notes and go through with them with in the 2 weeks.  Will keep you updated guys.