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Hospital staff too, don't seem to know masks are for both nostrils and mouth...

encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
edited November 2020 in Coffee lounge
I went to A&E on Friday night. One of my doubts over going was, obviously, the pandemic. At first everything was fine and moving fairly well for a Friday night. However, when I eventually got to see a doctor, he had his mask hanging below his nose. I thought perhaps it'd slipped and he hadn't noticed but no, he would let it up or down at various points throughout being with me. This was quite surreal and worrying, I thought. He clearly saw me giving him the evils as I glanced at his nose and then eyes and started raising the mask on cue. He, apparently, has gone off sick now according to a nurse I know there.
I was laying there thinking how bad that was. Then a nurse came over to ask a bunch of general questions and yup, sure enough, there I was staring up at her uncovered nostrils like the barrel of a gun - pandemic pun intended.
Wow, this can't get worse? Yes, it really can. Another nurse was hunting for dressings or such, she'd unhooked one ear of the mask to see more easily in some drawers across the way and then came into my cubicle to look there too. This is madness, I thought.
When I spoke to my nurse friend, she shrugged and said, yeah, I often forget and we've all had COVID here so aren't that worried. Well, you might not be, I said. She laughed, then said, well you're in the green sector so you should be fine!
I never realised all who go into A&E cubicles or for outpatient's aren't tested for COVID, unless they are going to stay on a ward. That also seems crazy to me, as you can have multiple asymptomatic, as of yet, if ever symptomatic, people trucking in and out of hospital and never tracked or traced necessarily to the hospital if someone gets infected.
I'm not saying this is valid to all hospitals/staff but if people go into a hospital and the staff aren't bothering to follow the rules, it hardly sets a great precedent for others. And, yes, I realise it's not exactly the done thing to criticise the NHS at present, but come on!

Replies

  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 6,062 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi I just wanted yo say it wouldnt be practical to test everyone who visits hospital as there are lots of out patient appointments too . I have had a few and they have completed a set of questions and taken temperature. Also when I said my son was isolating die to school they checked with the consultant if my treatment could go ahead

    I totally agree with your concerns and am pleased to say this wasnt the case in my hospital all staff wore masks at all times

    Maybe you should make a complaint to the hospital for the safety of others
  • Cher_ScopeCher_Scope Community Team Posts: 2,376 Disability Gamechanger
    @encaser Yikes, this doesn't sound great.  I'd consider reporting it to your local Patient advice and liaison service.  Please let us know how you get on if you do.  
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  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    I have little faith in PALS; ever since calling and leaving a message to get them to call or see me on a ward but instead, they contacted the nursing staff on the ward and told them what I'd said. That made for a 'fun' spell in hospital.
  • RAwarriorRAwarrior Member Posts: 873 Pioneering
    Hi @encaser,

    I have had the same experience when I have gone for blood tests at the hospital.

    I have seen patients and medical staff not wearing a face covering or wearing it under their nose or chin. I have asked other patients to put their face coverings on properly only to be met with verbal abuse because they seem surprised when I politely ask them to put their face covering over their nose.

    I have had the same problem in the local shops where both staff and customers don’t bother to wear any face coverings. Unfortunately these people have been in the majority.

     I am in the shielding group so I no longer go to any shop as I do all my shopping online.

    I am not surprised that we are in a second lockdown because I have seen so many people refusing to wear a face covering when they are supposed to and ignoring social distancing. 
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,089 Disability Gamechanger
    I have to say that during the pandemic I have been to hospital three times (and have to go back tomorrow) AT NO TIME did I see a single member of staff not wearing a mask, and the procedures made me feel like I was in the safest place on earth.   I think that rather than criticising anyone who works in our hospitals (would you like to wear a mask for 10 hours or more day after day?) we should be showing out gratitude for the excellent work they are doing in these most trying of times.

    @encaser compare out health service with that of the USA and think yourself lucky that we have a service that is free at point of use for ALL who need it, not just those who can afford it !
  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    woodbine said:
    I have to say that during the pandemic I have been to hospital three times (and have to go back tomorrow) AT NO TIME did I see a single member of staff not wearing a mask, and the procedures made me feel like I was in the safest place on earth.   I think that rather than criticising anyone who works in our hospitals (would you like to wear a mask for 10 hours or more day after day?) we should be showing out gratitude for the excellent work they are doing in these most trying of times.

    @encaser compare out health service with that of the USA and think yourself lucky that we have a service that is free at point of use for ALL who need it, not just those who can afford it !
    Not everyone's experiences are the same. To blanketly say how lucky we are, denies the chance for improvement and gives a pass to those that let the system down and risk the lives of others instead of caring for them adequately. Consider the people who have fallen ill to COVID because of hospital staff not following procedure. There are patients who have sadly died and that is a fact.
    The choice is simple: possible discomfort in wearing a mask etc. for staff or, be so selfish and/or careless as to risk killing someone.

  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    edited November 2020
    Hello @RAwarrior,
    it's a sad affair isn't it mate. My experiences over the years have been very mixed with the NHS and have met some patient 'characters' too that left me gobsmacked - not literally, thankfully!
    Unfortunately, the pandemic is no doubt highlighting the worst side as well as the good.
    It's brave of you to stand up and say, Hey, please could you? It's also very un-English too!
    One of the things that struck me, was how I was prepared more to lay there and seethe in anger and disbelief (typically English!) and not immediately question and say, Hey, mask?
    Shielding is a real inconvenience and possible stressor.
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Community Team Posts: 1,922 Pioneering
    edited November 2020
    I think it's important to recognise how amazing the NHS has been throughout this pandemic, and throughout it's history, but yes it's never nice to see or hear of people not following the rules.

    Sadly, there are many places in which mask wearing isn't being enforced. I understand that it's difficult to wear them all day, but if a rule is in place then it should be followed where possible, certainly whilst you're directly facing a customer, colleague or patient.
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  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    Hi @janer1967
    Yes, you're right, I should complain for others too and so that was why I spoke with my nurse friend, who is a Sister on the A&E.
    She said I could call PALS but all that would happen is a briefing sent out for staff to be reminded and nothing would really change, as staff would go back to what they were doing before. She also said that some of the PPE is annoying, hot to wear etc. and staff simply don't like it and will shrug it off for comfort. Also, that some of it is ill-fitting, which makes it difficult to keep in place.
    It's a real between a rock and a hard place.
  • RAwarriorRAwarrior Member Posts: 873 Pioneering
    Hi @encaser,

    Thank you for your reply. I had to go to the hospital this week for a blood test and yet again you had lots of people wearing their masks under their noses or chins.

    I have mentioned this in another thread but I nearly had a fall in the hospital because another problem is people standing in narrow hospital corridors talking thereby making it very difficult to social distance. I nearly fell because I tried to walk around them whilst avoiding the people coming towards me. Maybe it's just me but it does seem that too many people are far too relaxed.

    I think the infection rates will go up because of the restrictions at Christmas being restricted.
    I am used to shielding because it makes me feel safer although I accept it can be extremely difficult for some people.
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Community Team Posts: 1,922 Pioneering
    Too many people certainly are relaxed about it @RAwarrior, I do wonder how many fewer people have complied with this national lockdown compared to the one back in March and April, although granted the two lockdowns have their differences in terms of rules.
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  • MrAllen1976MrAllen1976 Member Posts: 1,135 Pioneering
    Thing is though, some shops, such as Tesco and the Co Op, don't enforce the mask rule and it's completely optional for staff and customers.

    Back in September, I had an interview for a job at a Co Op in Shiregreen (Area is full of Chavs and a pain to get to) and the Manager said masks were optional for staff and customers.

  • RAwarriorRAwarrior Member Posts: 873 Pioneering
    Hi @Ross_Scope, @MrAllen1976,

     I think a lot of people have ignored the rules regarding face coverings especially in small independent shops where even the staff don’t wear them.
    It makes it worse when they also ignore social distancing.

    Wearing a face covering should not be optional unless someone has an exemption although I would expect anyone with an exemption to social distance because seeing someone without a face covering makes me very anxious. The people I am referring to are not people with exemptions. There are people who just don’t care about others. They said that 1in 3 people with Covid 19 have no symptoms which is really worrying. 


  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    I went for a check up at hospital today and thankfully both staff and patients were obeying the masks ruling. I was in and out of a dressing room, so that helped, as the waiting area was rammed full of all ages wandering around like zombies. It pretty much was a wasted journey though, with the risk of exposure, as the consultant was off isolating and so I saw a junior who took a quick look and said we'll do a later appointment when he's not isolating. Sigh.
    Both ambulance drivers said that people are ignoring the rules far more in general now we've gotten to this second lockdown.
  • jae377jae377 Member Posts: 22 Courageous
    woodbine said:
    I have to say that during the pandemic I have been to hospital three times (and have to go back tomorrow) AT NO TIME did I see a single member of staff not wearing a mask, and the procedures made me feel like I was in the safest place on earth.   I think that rather than criticising anyone who works in our hospitals (would you like to wear a mask for 10 hours or more day after day?) we should be showing out gratitude for the excellent work they are doing in these most trying of times.

    @encaser compare out health service with that of the USA and think yourself lucky that we have a service that is free at point of use for ALL who need it, not just those who can afford it !
    I note you refer to "wearing a mask" . As a "frequent flyer" with the NHS I have to say that on every occasion I have visited hospital I have seen both medical and clerical staff not wearing masks correctly - which was the original point. Wearing a mask under the nose (most common sight) is as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Accurate statements are not criticism they are factual points. PS regarding wearing a mask all day, how do you think our soldiers manage wearing masks all day whilst working alongside the NHS or body armour 18 hours a day in 50 degree heat - and they are not getting a pay rise.
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,089 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2020
    I stick by what I said, I was back at hospital on Monday for a very minor OP the hospital was busy, I didn't see a single member of the public not wearing a mask (properly) or a single member of staff, social distancing was observed where humanly possible, and again I felt like it was the safest place on earth. To those who want to criticise hospital staff where tbh criticism is unfair I have a piece of advice STAY AT HOME.
    The same applies to shopping we shop once a week at one of the biggest Tesco stores in the country throughout they have done everything humanly possible to make the experience safe for us and their staff and should be applauded not slagged off.
  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    edited November 2020
    woodbine said:
     To those who want to criticise hospital staff where tbh criticism is unfair I have a piece of advice STAY AT HOME.
      should be applauded not slagged off.

    It's not 'slagging them off', it's raising a very necessary concern.
    To be clear, I have not said all hospital staff are rule breakers. But this virus only needs the few to disobey, others to see health care professionals doing so, follow suit and many others can and will pay for it.

    Moreover, advising people to "STAY AT HOME" is reckless and dangerous. The NHS has been struggling to get patients to attend. Both the ONS and NHS have noted that far higher than normal numbers of people have died from heart disease and other quite possibly manageable or curable conditions/illnesses. They have stated that If those people had gone to seek care/called for an ambulance, they may well have survived but, in all likelihood, stayed at home in fear of COVID infection in a hospital and died.
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Community Team Posts: 1,922 Pioneering
    I think the point here is that everyone's experience is different. Some of us might attend places where everyone is wearing a mask, whereas others might see nobody wearing one. 

    Some establishments are enforcing the rules and others aren't, and some don't even have rules about things like face masks. Because of this we will all have differing experiences, and therefore differing thoughts on whether people are doing their best to contain the virus or not.
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  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    I think the point here is that everyone's experience is different. Some of us might attend places where everyone is wearing a mask, whereas others might see nobody wearing one. 

    Some establishments are enforcing the rules and others aren't, and some don't even have rules about things like face masks. Because of this we will all have differing experiences, and therefore differing thoughts on whether people are doing their best to contain the virus or not.
    Yes, people's experiences will differ (especially so, if you universalise it) but the point here was/is NHS staff.
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Community Team Posts: 1,922 Pioneering
    Very true @encaser, even so, within NHS buildings the enforcement  and compliance with the rules with vary, so I don't think we should generalise it, or say that most either are, or aren't, following the rules.

    It will differ on a case by case basis. Should that be how it is? Of course not, if there is a rule in place then every NHS facility should enforce it as much as possible, and allow exceptions where necessary.
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  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,089 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2020
    encaser said:
    woodbine said:
     To those who want to criticise hospital staff where tbh criticism is unfair I have a piece of advice STAY AT HOME.
      should be applauded not slagged off.

    It's not 'slagging them off', it's raising a very necessary concern.
    To be clear, I have not said all hospital staff are rule breakers. But this virus only needs the few to disobey, others to see health care professionals doing so, follow suit and many others can and will pay for it.

    Moreover, advising people to "STAY AT HOME" is reckless and dangerous. The NHS has been struggling to get patients to attend. Both the ONS and NHS have noted that far higher than normal numbers of people have died from heart disease and other quite possibly manageable or curable conditions/illnesses. They have stated that If those people had gone to seek care/called for an ambulance, they may well have survived but, in all likelihood, stayed at home in fear of COVID infection in a hospital and died.
    Again I stick by what I said, since March I have been to the hospital and also the dentist a number of times and on each occasion everybody was following the rules, (Removed by moderator)
    Anyway i've had my say and i'm out of here !
  • encaserencaser Member Posts: 121 Courageous
    Very true @encaser, even so, within NHS buildings the enforcement  and compliance with the rules with vary, so I don't think we should generalise it, or say that most either are, or aren't, following the rules.

    It will differ on a case by case basis. Should that be how it is? Of course not, if there is a rule in place then every NHS facility should enforce it as much as possible, and allow exceptions where necessary.

    When I made the original post, it was partly in frustration at NHS staff, to read of other's experiences and how they felt in them at this terrible time and not to formulate one overbearing position.
    If we all had one unifying experience, it would be great (hopefully) but ultimately dull and so no need for forums!
  • newbornnewborn Member Posts: 618 Pioneering
    I have heard of people attending hospital for various non covid19 related matters, either as out patients or as inpatients, contracting covid19 and being seriously or fatally ill as a result.   So, I don't think it should be possible to see any person, either staff or visitor or patient, with a nose hanging out, on N.H.S premises.   If they are so called 'exempt', then they should work from home or get a different job, if they are staff, and keep away, if they are visitors,  or have special and peculiar methods designed to quarantine them from anybody else, if they are patients and can manage to convince medical authorities there is truly no form of p.p.e they can wear to stop spreading a deadly disease round a hospital.
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