untruth in your assessment report

Bagpuss56

sorry to say that i have received what is for me disturbing advice that lies told by HCP assessors, are just part of the process and that they have no impact on the outcome of your award. 
does anybody else here feel that the assessors have lied or bent the truth, and did it impact your award, i would be interested to know just how many people found untruths on the written reports against what was said during assessment.
and before i get jumped on again that its not about the assessment but you and the descriptors, why have a hcp do an assessment then if its all about your evidence

poppy123456

I'm sorry but i'm finding your comments rather disturbing. I've given you advice to the best of my ability and i really don't appreciate these comments. Please be mindful of your comments. We are a friendly community and would like to keep it that way.

If you also have another read of the advice i gave in your other thread, no where in there did i say anything about "lies" being ok.

Bagpuss56

i am sorry but are you an administrator, if not then others may find my post interesting, just because you may dislike it does not give you the right to  try to censor what i am saying, i am sorry but some of your advice i find a little nieve, that is just my own personal opinion and i find it highly offensive that you a warning me about my comments and trying to censor me, if this continues i shall verbally speak to someone at scope about infringing my right to an opinion even if it conflicts with yours

poppy123456

I will kindly ask you again to please be mindful of your comments.

Bagpuss56

i have said nothing offensive or wrong to you or anybody else, i would ask that you stop trying to censor me, i have already made a complaint to scope, and  again ask by what right do you have to tell me to stop commenting when nothing but a difference of opinion has occurred

woodbine

Bagpuss56 said:

i am sorry but are you an administrator, if not then others may find my post interesting, just because you may dislike it does not give you the right to  try to censor what i am saying, i am sorry but some of your advice i find a little nieve, that is just my own personal opinion and i find it highly offensive that you a warning me about my comments and trying to censor me, if this continues i shall verbally speak to someone at scope about infringing my right to an opinion even if it conflicts with yours

You are being very very unfair and personal attacks are not allowed on this forum, for your information @poppy123456 is without a shadow of a doubt the most knowledgeable benefits advisor on this forum and gives a lot of her time freely to help many many people.
You should apologise.
For what its worth I have had HCP professionals assess me for both ESA and PIP and found both reports to be fair and balanced and a true reflection of the assessment.
@Bagpuss56 I would suggest you take a deep breath count to 10 and think about what you say.

Bagpuss56

and that makes all assessments fair then does it, how dare you suggest i apologise, i suggested that lies told on a report by a hcp have a massive effect on the outcome of an award  poppy123456 disagreed, what do i have to apologise about, and i would suggest you go and read all of the exchanges between us before you cast any aspersions, and i find your suggestion that i take a deep breath and count to ten more offensive than anything that i have said, and shall be bringing that up with someone at scope also

poppy123456

Your comments are personal attacks against me which is against scope rules so i'll yet again ask you kindly to please stop with the personal attacks. I haven't said or done anything to you to deserve any of these personal attacks. I also haven't condoned any HCP for any lies that they may happen to tell.

Bagpuss56

since when is a difference of opinion a personal attack, how dare you suggest that, i am not impugning poppy123456 ability in any way other than it is my own PERSONAL opinion that she is not seeing the real impact that any incorrect statements on an assessment have on the award, what's wrong with that. that is not a personal attack but a difference of opinion, i am not trying to censor her and what she is saying even though i disagree with it, so why should i stand for her trying to censor me

poppy123456

You accused me of condoning what the HCP said in the report. Then if that wasn't enough you started a new thread and continued with the attacks. Please stop the attacks.

Bagpuss56

poppy123456 i have not said that you have, go and check, and please call off the attack dogs who have started on me, as i have said explain in what way i have personally attacked you, rather than had a difference of opinion, and woodbines suggestion that i take a breath and count to ten is not offensive to me and a personal attack then, my god the double standards, i have asked someone from scope to telephone me and read all of our exchanges, and tell me where in them i make a personal attack on you. unlike the offensive remark made by woodbine

Lulu_1949

@Bagpuss56 have just read your post with interest. Yes I agree with you. When I took my son for an assessment the report WAS full of lies. It was as if they were talking about someone else. He was honest in all the questions he answered and they were written down completely out of context. Yes it did effect the outcome of his award . An example was, “ can you drive” which he answered yes and the assessor wrote down that he drives regularly, he didn’t own a car therefore didn’t drive regularly, he wasn’t asked when did he last drive or she would have found out about the accident he had had previously. 

A lot of the questions were closed questions with yes or  no answers but the assessor put her interpretations into it, putting in sentences that were not discussed ? So yes when I did the appeal I did put that they were many untruths in the assessment which as a mum upset me. 

I am not saying all assessors are doing this but this did happen with my son.
best thing is just write your honest account as to what happened . I do think that just assessing a person in the way they walk, move , act and talk is as important as the descriptors. When asking questions on day to day living it comes natural to answer honestly without thinking of descriptors that might fit the question if that makes sense? 

Please don’t get upset, it’s a lovely site to get different people opinions, hope my bit has helped you x

janer1967

@Bagpuss56 I'm not getting involved in your personal comments 

There are lots of posts in here about assessment reports containing what is perceived as lies 

It is the assessors perception of the assessment not necessarily the way you perceive your ability against the descriptors which can often be different 

All I will add is if you have concerns report it to the assessment providers tho this doesn't really get you anywhere in relation to your award 

The whole process is a challenge for lots people but also not for others I have been awarded and reviewed with no issues it's all about the detail in your forms and evidence and of course a genuine condition that prevents you from being able to carry out daily tasks and mobility 

If you dont get an award then there is the appeal which often gives better outcome 

Bagpuss56

thank you janer1967 you are probably right it would not get me anywhere, but as i have stated before, that still does not mean that incorrect statements made on a assessment do not have a direct impact on any award, they are used as the main source of guidance by the decision maker in my humble opinion, otherwise why are they done, and in my wife's case 5 previous award renewals had no problem at all including face to face until these untruths appeared this time, so for us personally it had a massive impact

woodbine

@Bagpuss56 feel free to complain to whom you want, but you might be in danger of driving away the people who give decent advice on benefits, are you prepared to replace someone who gives a lot of their own time to help others on a daily basis? The truth of the matter is simple, HCP's make an assessment based on what they are told and what they see using a set of pre-defined computer generated questions, they have little scope to do otherwise, the fact that a claimant doesn't agree with an assessment doesn't make it lies.

cupcake88

@Bagpuss56 hi bagpuss . I’m sorry your pip assessment didn’t go the way you wanted it you may feel that you should of scored a certain amount but if your illness doesn’t affect you in a away that falls under the discriptors then you will not recieve pip. 

I personally found my assessment to be very hard my partner supported me on the phone . My assessor was really nice I have had no problem with the dwp or with my assessor .
i also want to add that @poppy123456 is on here like every one else she shares her knowledge with us and helped so many people on this forum especially my self poppy has really helped me her knowledge on this subject is the best in my opinion Poppy’s knowledge and other peoples knowledge has really helped me on this site I don’t want you to feel I’m taking sides but I just want to remind you that every one on here gives the best advice on here some times we may feel we should of scored more with pip and poppy and others has helped advise people what steps they take next . 

I have had the best advice and support off this forum more than what citizens advice could provide my personal opinion I personally would trust Poppy’s advice and there’s no need to personally get upset with people if you don’t like there advise we are all trying to help . 

I  only get pip I personally do find it unfair that because my partner works Full time and has a good income it means I’m not entitled to any thing part from pip I do think that’s unfair but I have accepted that’s just the way it is . 

I’m very thankful to every one on this forum . I suffer with really bad mental illness every one has been patient with me and given excellent support and advise And poppy is one of those people . 

I’m sorry your not happy with the way pip works .  Maybe write to your local mp . 

Bagpuss56

not berating just disagreeing, in democratic civilisation that's allowed is it not, uncensored so any opinion of me, and what you will and won't stand for is of no meaning to me i will have my opinion even if you do not like it, i have had others reply which was the whole point of my post 1 in total agreement, so are they to be told to shut up too by you, does there experience of untruth in a report count for nothing in your eyes because you dislike me and i disagreed with your friend, so tell them that and not me, tell anybody who wants to respond to what i have said that they must hold there breath count to ten and think about what they are going to say I DARE YOU

cupcake88

Bagpuss your being very silly now and the tone of your posts are angry . We are all giving our opinion we have all been nice and your just being a (Removed by moderator, profanity)now . Stop getting agresive with people . We have tried to help and advise . 

woodbine

@Bagpuss56 you just cant't help yourself can you ? This is my final say on this thread that has become farcical, like others I am sorry you didn't get the decision you expected but it's not our fault, no one on here is to blame.
I would seriously suggest that we all walk away from this now, its going round in circles.

Bagpuss56

so calling me a (Removed by moderator, profanity)is not offensive then, and i am being silly, have you read woodbines comments too me, and you are wrong i do know how the system works and the previous five award renewals were no problem and fine, until untruths were written in the last report, blatant provable lies, evidence of which has already been sent to dwp, to disagree is not being offensive, to be told to shut up if you disagree and to be called an (Removed by moderator, profanity)IS aggressive and offensive however. sorry cupcake88 but all this started because i told poppy123456 that i thought she was being nieve to think that assessors lies do not have an impact, if that's aggressive and offensive as being called an (Removed by moderator, profanity)by you, and I have to apologise

Bagpuss56

right then please listen, you think that i am being aggressive, and that i should apologise, yet think it perfectly ok to call me a (Removed by moderator, profanity) and YOU feel that no apology is needed, the words witch hunt are growing sharper by the minute.
you say you have a friendly site (Removed by moderator, profanity) does not seem to support that, i had an opinion that someone did not like, why should i be called an (Removed by moderator, profanity) for having a different opinion, i did not swear or become offensive in any way YOU HAVE

cupcake88

Well I called you a <moderator removed - profanity> because your being one . Your being mean we don’t make the rules of the dwp  . Yes I have Read the thread and every ones comments and I’ll say it again . No one is paid to give advise on this site and the advice I have received off here as been some of the best . 

You have personally attacked some one this site who gives the the best benefit advice In her own free time this is a lady who has really helped me with advice and had been so patience and understanding with me and she also helps many others on here I won’t sit back why you bully people . It was because of a bully why I became disabled in the first place . 

My anxiety is bad today just taken a diazepam and I haven’t got time to listen to this crap if I’m honest. I have been nice and polite to you and so has others but your being rude now . I’m not a mean person ask any one on here but I’m not gonna see others been attacked on this forum . 

Like I said I’m pretty <moderator removed - profanity> that I can’t claim any thing else because of my partners income that’s the rules of the government write to them if your annoyed . 

Bagpuss56

you have been nice and polite and called me an (Removed by moderator, profanity) and a (Removed by moderator, profanity), bit of discrepancy there i would say, you have become rude and offensive not me, and you have a perfect right not to listen to this (Removed by moderator, profanity), but as others are saying to me you do not have the right to call me a bully whilst verbally abusing me by calling me a (Removed by moderator, profanity)

chiarieds

May I say that you can of course disagree with a comment made, or advice given. How you disagree also matters.

As you know how PIP works, I'm sure you know that assessors write their opinion after listening to a claimant. They are limited to a certain extent by the software they have to use. Therefore they might give the option which is the closest they feel for any applicable descriptor. There is also unfortunately much use of 'cut & paste' phrases, which often bear little resemblance to what the HCP has heard/observed, but which are nonetheless used.

Many people successfully claim PIP, but many members here have not had the result they had expected, so we usually see the latter group.

My own assessment was fairly accurate, but there was one 'cut & paste' phrase saying, 'because I didn't see a pain specialist nor a physiotherapy specialist,' I could walk further without being in pain than the 6metres I'd been seen to walk. This despite the fact that I'd mentioned 3 or 4 times in my claim pack that I am a physiotherapist. I had also mentioned this to the HCP, & she had written this down in her report. The only other evidence was a letter from my GP, which said pain medication was largely ineffective in those with my disorder, & he also wrote that I was a physio. Obviously I didn't neatly fit into any box either.

This 'may' have happened in this situation. It's often difficult to prove an HCP's 'inaccuracies.' In my case I sent of a photocopy proving my qualification; you may be able to show proof about your medical evidence. However, if it gets to a Tribunal, then as with the preceding MR, it's better to give more weight to where points should have been awarded, & exactly why, rather than try & disprove an HCP's report. A person's individual response matters more than medical evidence, as only the individual knows how their disability impacts on functional activities, which is what PIP is all about.

It's taken me ages to type this, & I wonder why I bothered as I'm not feeling too great.....to look back & see the comments you've just sent......no comment.

cupcake88

I’m a nice person that’s one thing my disability hasn’t taken from me I’m a kind person I  have never used a bad word on this site ask any one . I have been very nice and so has every one else but I will not stand by and read personal attacks on people . This forum is like family to me and the friends I have made on here . I not got time for this I’m going to go eat my pizza I’m just saying I’m a very nice person but I won’t not speak up for What’s right . If I get In trouble for swearing then I’m sorry admin don’t kick me off the site but I’m defending what I feel is right . 

cupcake88

@Bagpuss56 don’t be starting on me bagpuss what do you wish to achieve here . 

four4mum

After having read all of the comments on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that if you happen to disagree with someone, or have a different opinion then you are called an aa (Removed by moderator, profanity)and a bully.

This was my first visit here and my very first comment, and possibly my last, as I'm afraid that I don't find it very friendly at all.

Thank you for opening my eyes to the way in which you treat newcomers to the chat forum of Scope. Hopefully the rest of the website will be more helpful to me 

poppy123456

We have had members here on the community who have come and posted their story, be it for advice, or just to post their story. Having applied for PIP and been refused or not had the award they were perhaps hoping for. So they took it all the way to Tribunal, yet still been refused. We've also had members here that have had an award and took it to Tribunal because they thought they were entitled to more points for a higher award, yet they've gone to Tribunal and lost everything they have.

Their story included " at Tribunal i stated all the lies that were told in the report" yet still i wasn't awarded. So my advice not to concentrate on the report in this way was perfectly good advice because it can definitely harm a case by doing this.

If you have strong evidence that proves you qualify for a higher award then that evidence should speak for itself at any Tribunal and there will be no need to concentrate on everything that was said in any report.

You clearly stated in your first post that you didn't like the advice i gave, yet you still deciced to start another thread to continue what you disagreed with, was there really any need to continue in a new thread?

I asked you many times to please stop the personal attacks, yet you continued. All of this because i advised you not to concentrate on the report... dear oh dear!

cupcake88

I called him a <moderator removed - profanity> it was one word and I’m really friendly thank you I’m also some one has been threw a lot of trauma and I don’t like bullies so I’m standing up for my friend so if you think I’m horrible then that’s your problem I’m a nice person and now I’m feeling like crap but I’m glad I spoke up for what’s right I’m not a horrible person I’m just not good with my words especially when in situations like this . 

I might just leave this forum because I don’t like seeing people get spoken to badly for giving good advise it’s always the same things people get rude bout . Complain to your local mp write to the government don’t start slating people on here . I’m not apologising because you are a <moderator removed - profanity> so there . People who know me know I’m a nice person they also know I’m would do any any thing for any one . If that’s how you feel then that’s how you feel .

Lulu_1949

@four4mum
welcome to the site, I hope you find some useful helpful information from all members.
happy New Year x

woodbine

four4mum said:

After having read all of the comments on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that if you happen to disagree with someone, or have a different opinion then you are called an a*******, a **** and a bully.

This was my first visit here and my very first comment, and possibly my last, as I'm afraid that I don't find it very friendly at all.

Thank you for opening my eyes to the way in which you treat newcomers to the chat forum of Scope. Hopefully the rest of the website will be more helpful to me 

I'm going against my own advice now @four4mum this thread is in no way representative of what we usually see on scope, which is a friendly and welcoming forum, what you see here are people defending people we see as important to the forum.
Before you write us off have a good look round the forum, this thread is the exception not the rule and yes sadly its not been a great way to start the new year but like all "families" we have our disagreements from time to time.

four4mum

As I mentioned a moment ago, having read the comments on this thread, I feel that the way @BAGPUSS54 was treated, was seriously hateful and hurtful. I didn't realise that having a different opinion was abusive. That's a first. Being called names though, was abusive, hateful and very hurtful, so I'm  really not sure if asking questions or advice on here, will generate any help at all

cupcake88

@four4mum please stick around it’s a really good forum this forum has really helped me . 

poppy123456

@four4mum what you have seen here is absolutely not the usual thing to happen here on the community. Although you often get some issues on all forums.

If the original poster in question had stopped the personal attacks when asked kindly then other members would have had no need to comment. There really was also no need to start another thread highlighting the issues, if there were further problems, this could be been sorted on the original thrread.

I hope you do decide to stay and have a look around and if you need some help i'm sure someone can give you some advice. In the meantime welcome to the forum.

four4mum

Apologies, but I saw no personal attacks, just a difference of opinion. If that is disallowed, is it in the rules about commenting 

Lulu_1949

@four4mum you are allowed to comment on anything and you are also allowed to have a difference of opinion. That’s life! It’s so easy to agree to disagree and stay friendly, that’s my belief 

mikehughescq

PIP is about the strength of your evidence not the weakness of theirs. HCPs generally record things inaccurately in the absence of detailed anecdotal evidence. 

Cher_Scope

Hi everyone,

Following moderator review, this thread has been closed.

To emphasise, diverse opinions are integral to our community being the vibrant space that it is, so thank you for sharing your experience with us @Bagpuss56 as I'm sure others reading will have been through similar and can relate to your frustrations.  

However, discussion must remain within our online community guidelines  and where conversation turns to profanity, causes offence or is against the friendly ethos of the community, then the team must intervene and act as necessary.  

I hope you continue to be a part of our community @four4mum and I'm sorry that this was your first interaction with what is otherwise a friendly, close-knit bunch of members.   Likewise, please all bear in mind the guidelines linked above and remember to respect others' views even if you don't necessarily agree with them.  Thank you.