Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Advice on ESA payments with Carers Allowance

Hello All,

Hope this post finds you all well. I need some advice please - I have been on ESA for some time - I have a joint claim with my wife in my name. Im in ESA SG for years .. I recently had to stop claiming the SDP we both received due to child leaving college FT education. Sadly I was unwell and could not get through to the DWP at all.

So I made a claim for carers allowance for both of us to claim for each other - this would stop the SDP entitlement. I get £52.22 work based occ pension which I told the DWP about of course. Today I got paid and only received £91.07 with my s Fund of £22.48 deducted Total £113.55 - with my occ pension included. My wife currently gets £67.25 per week  (Monday) for caring for me .. I dont get anything is this right.

I also think they have possibly overpaid me by around £30 a week possibly since September I cannot work out why ... as I applied for Carers so they should have stopped my SDP when I claimed I did get a letter that as I get ESA CB / IR that I cannot receive Carers .. so what should I be getting ??

I am new to Carers I dont want to claim UC unless my life depends on it  ... still suing the DWP and local council over UC failed claim from three years ago.  My case is due to be heard soon but the DWP are causing chaos for me and my legal team one way and another ... even the best legal minds in the UK are challenged by these people.

As we are both claiming for each other this bit loses me and I have never used Carers allowance so any advice is appreciated.

Take care stay safe folks .... 



Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    I remember advsing you when your daughter was about to leave education. Based on those figures you've given here i would say that your ESA is just Contributions based, rather than CB with an Income Related top up.

    I would also say that your wife is not named on your claim. This is because you are receiving the Occ pension which will reduce any income related top £1 for £1 but because part of your ESA is Contributions based then they can't reduce it any further than £113.55, which is the CB Support Group amount. Any pension that's less than £85 per week is ignored for CB ESA.

    Here are my figures that i've worked out to try to help you more with this, just to show what you would be receiving if it wasn't for your pension.

    ESA Couples £116.80
    Support Group amount £39.20
    Enhanced disability premium (couples) £24.50
    Total ESA  without the carers allowance deduction = £180.50

    Minus the carers allowance of £67.25 = £113.25 + carers premium £37.50 = £150.75 per week payable ESA..

    Then you have your pension of £52.22 per week which reduces Income Related ESA £1 for £1, so this wipes out any income related top up and reverts your ESA to a CB only claim, which is £113.55 per week.

    The reason why you can't claim carers allowance for looking after your wife is because Contributions based ESA and carers allowance are overlapping benefits and you can't be paid both together at the same time, you will receive the higher benefit, which is ESA.

    One other thing to be careful of here is the your ESA no longer entitles you to free NHS treatement, such as dental, prescriptions or eye tests and this includes your wife.

    May i ask if you were claiming the pension when you were claiming the SDP? If you were then there should have also been a reduction of your ESA from the time you started receiving the pension.

    Hope this helps and sorry if i've caused any confusion. I can't tell you whether you have any overpayment though.



    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Hi thank you for your help, I was in receipt of ESA IR when I got the pension. This was swiftly reduced penny for penny. Pension is a great bonus to the highly paid .. not so here I think ... 

    The sheet I have says - £116.80 + D Inc Guarantee £24.50 + £39.20      = £180.50  then minus £52.22 = £128.28 but states this applies 3/9/20 to 23/9/20 ...

    Covering letter says - From 24/9/20 ESA will be £105.80  a week due to change in deductions from ESA (S Fund loan ?)

    Then from 5/11/20 ESA will be £91.07  (Plus 22.48 S fund loan)  = £113.55

    From 1/4/21 ESA will be £105.39 

    From 8/4/21 ESA will be £113.55 per week (Loan finishes  I guess).- 

    Makes no reference to CB based ESA at all but I was on ESA CB topped up by IR element I have been in receipt of pension since 2015 and they of course where advised.

    I didnt know about the prescription thing ! I will need to see what I am getting very worrying ... 

    I do live in an ESA FULL service area - I might be better off on that but not sure. I loath UC ... its a bitter pill ...

    But thank you for your help Im grateful it helps so much ! Take care of yourself ... 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Yes the calculations have taken into consideration your wife being named on the claim but because of your pension this compltely reduces any income related top up that you would have been receiving.

    The extra deductions for the loan you had makes the calculation correct. The amount from 1/4/21 has been slightly increased because that will be the last loan repayment.

    My calculation means that it does seem like you have a small overpayment from 3/09/20.

    All areas are now UC and have been since Decemeber 2018. No new claims of the old benefits are no longer possible.

    If you claimed UC your ESA would not be part of this and you would remain on it and it will continue to be paid as normal. Your ESA support Group award would be honoured in UC and you will be placed into the LCWRA group and receive the LCWRA element, as well as the couples standard allowance and any other elements like housing (if you claim for help with the rent.

    Your ESA will be deducted in full from any UC entitlement and also your pension will be deducted £1 for £1. A benefits calculator will tell you whether you'll be entitled to an UC.

    Of course if you do claim UC then you will never be able to claim the old Income Related ESA again in the future.

    Depsite the bad stories regarding UC, there are people who are better off claiming this than they were with the legacy benefits. Of course there's some who are worse off. It's not perfect by any means but it's not as bad as some people think.

    It's all rather a bitter pill though when you were previously claiming the SDP.

    Always happy to help. Take care too and if you need more advice please do ask.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Digging up my old topic again ... I have just been told by my Lawyers that the DWP have told them I m now on CB ESA. I get 114.10 plus a small pension of £56.00 a week. My wife gets Carers for me. She is on DLA still I get full PIP.

    Do the DWP have to tell you you no longer get IR ESA as I have never been told and only found out by accident.

    My HB and CTB were recently reviewed and I was awarded both at the full rate ...

    I have just completed a HC 1 as I get 11 prescription items a month.

    I dont want to claim UC as it makes me worse of slightly and I dont like it ... we owe tax credits and if I transition they will ask more than the £12.00 a week we pay now.

    Can anyone tell me if the DWP should inform you that they are stopping your IR ESA and will I still get my HB ... it does not appear that the DWP have told the council that Im now on CB ...

    Very worried about my HB and ending up having to fork out overpayments everywhere ... thank you
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 21
    Apollo14LMP said: Do the DWP have to tell you you no longer get IR ESA as I have never been told and only found out by accident.
    Old ESA is one benefit which can include either or both contribution based and income based elements. You are still on the same benefit but, due to other income, no longer have entitled to any income based payments. Any letters with calculations attached will show how the amount you receive is calculated (although they are notoriously difficult to understand).

    You should keep HB informed about any changes to the income you receive.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 21
    I am not clear why you are only getting £114.10/week if you have underlying entitlement to CA and the only other household income is your wife’s CA and your pension of £56. I would have expected some income based entitlement on top of this.

    standard couple allowance £117.40
    Couple enhanced Disability premium £24.60
    Support component £39.40
    carer premium x 2 £75.40

    Maximum amount £256.80
    minus £56 Pension and CA £67.60
    Amount payable = £133.20
    (which would be £114.10 contribution based and £19.10 income based)

    Are you still paying back a Social Loan?

    I have assumed that the letter from CA that you referred to in your original post said that you cannot receive CA but that you have an underlying entitlement to it.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    edited May 21
    Thank you for replying ...

    The letter says - 

    Living expenses you and your partner - 116.80

    Extra money D Income Gtee  24.50

    Extra for support group    39.20

    Total 180.50 - 52.22 = £128.28

    - Income pension (calculated) £52.22 this was for period 3/9/2020 - 23/9/2020

    Letter then goes on - from 8 April 2021 your ESA will be  £113.55 a week = no explanation.

    No loan its finished .... 

    I have underlying unpaid entitlement to Carers allowance .... 

    I do not know where my addition premiums have gone .... 

    then gets a notification from solicitor that I am now on 114.10 the DWP says Im CB ESA now as £114.10 is greater than the smaller IR ESA amount.

    After calls to DWP from lawyer new letters are being issued to me apparently ... I am a bit baffled and lost by this ..
    and very worried. .... thank you for helping ... 

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 21
    The figures you have quoted are old figures and don't tell us how your current award is calculated They make no reference to the Carer’s Allowance your wife receives or to the carer premiums that should now be included in the calculation of the maximum amount, one because your wife gets CA and one if you have underlying entitlement to CA.

    When did you apply for CA and can you confirm the letter you received following your CA claim confirms that you have an ‘underlying entitlement’.

    When did your wife start receiving CA?

    Did you ever tell ESA that your wife receives CA? Did you ever tell them that you have an ‘underlying entitlement’ to CA (assuming that you have)?
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    I had to apply for Carers last October due to loss of SDP qualifying criteria daughter left education.

    I did get a letter soon after telling me that I was entitled to CA but wasn't getting anything except Underlying entitlement.

    My wife got an award letter and payments soon after = the fact that they refer to these payments suggests that I had told them. I had trouble getting through to them during COVID 19.

    Wife started getting CA in October 2020 ... 

    Yes we did tell them ... they mentioned on the phone the other day my underlying entitlement to CA. I do have a letter for this. 

    Just very concerned that my HB etc could be stopped or something bad could happen.

    Upset having to complete HC1 they were a bit rude and unhelpful regarding my entitlement to free prescriptions when I am clearly very worried I cannot afford 11 x 10 a month or indeed a 10 a month certificate after the monies we have lost due to SDP loss.. 

    PTSD and anxiety and I am in a bad place....but I am supposed to be a lawyer accountant - I have also lost my Legal aid were I was suing the DWP as CB ESA is not passported and I am just above the threshold ....so there goes my claim for the 10k I was hoping to win for discrimination....

    These people make life not worth living .... for a £1.00 or something ...
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 21
    I cannot see any reference to your wife’s CA in the ESA calculation figures you quoted. 

    When you get a new calculation please compare it to the figures I calculated when I posted at 7.09. The calculation should include two carer premiums totalling £75.40. Your figures do not show these or the deduction for the CA your wife receives, as a result it appears to me that you are being underpaid ESA (assuming no other income nor savings over £6000).
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    No it is a very mixed picture - at an awful time.

    I must thank you for your time trouble and kindness ... thank you...
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    If new correspondence from ESA does not reference the carer premiums or the Carer’s Allowance you need to contact them and confirm to them your underlying entitlement and your wife’s CA including the start dates and ask them to recalculate your ESA entitlement including possible income based entitlement.

    Just to check - does your adult daughter still live with you?
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    I will check it when it arrives thank you ...

    Daughter still lives here but we were told it doesnt afaect us we are both on PIP and DLA high care components ...

    Thank you ... 

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    Apollo14LMP said: Daughter still lives here but we were told it doesnt afaect us we are both on PIP and DLA high care components ...
    That’s correct. Just wanted to check because if she was no longer with you then there could be SDP entitlement again.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    edited May 22
    My wife only ever gets carers allowance of £67.00 a week .. why should it be £75.40 ? Is it that we both technically get it - my underlying entitlement and her paid entitlement. ??

    As the amounts seem to differ I think I should still be on IR ESA as the top ups with the deductions for my CA (that i dont receive) and my pension add up to more than the CB based amount of money ... so confusing ,,, 

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 22
    The £75.40 is the carer premium amount that should be added when calculating your maximum ESA amount because she gets CA and you have an underlying entitlement. Here is the calculation again as set out in my earlier post:
                                                                   2021-22                       2020-21
    Standard couple allowance                    £117.40                          £116.80
    Couple Enhanced Disability premium      £24.60                           £24.50
    Support component                                £39.40                           £39.20
    carer premium x 2                                  £75.40                           £75.00
                                                               -----------                         -----------
    Maximum amount                                 £256.80                         £255.50
    minus pension                                      - £56.00                         - £52.22 
    minus CA received                                - £67.60                        - £67.25
                                                             -----------                         ----------- 
    Maximum income related ESA               £133.20                        £136.03 
    so £133.20 is the total ESA payable made up of
    Contribution based entitlement            £114.10                           £113.55                  
    Income related amount payable            £19.10                             £22.48                 

    So I agree that you should still be getting some income based ESA which would automatically entitle you to maximum Housing Benefit.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you so much . you are are wonderful I am so stressed and you are so kind. Your time, trouble and kindness make so much difference to people ...   
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    edited May 22
    ust had a nice white envelope from the DWP.

    From 15th April 2021 your ESA is ...

    Living Exp you and partner -                             - £117.40

    Extra money because your partner is a carer    - £37.70

    Extra money Dis Income Gtee                           - £24.60

    Limited Capability for work addition                   - £39.40

    Giving you a total IR amount of £                  - £219.10

    Income and benefits

    Other income                                                     - £52.22

    Then further down
    Carers allowance for your partner                     - £67.60

    Total Income                                                   - £119.82

    Your IR total is £219.10 less £119.82 so you would have been entitled to - £99.28

    However - because you are entitled to CB ESA we will pay you £114.10 

    Is this correct there is no reference to my underlying CA .. or indeed any other Carers premium ?

    Have not got single clue what this means or how this has come about ... and more importantly what this means .. in life.

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    I looks as if they are not aware of your underlying entitlement to CA, which they will not be unless you told them. Find the letter that confirms the start date of your entitlement and then ring them on Monday to let them know. They should then revise the award accordingly.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you .. a lot hangs on this will I get my IR ESA back based on what you calculated before .. off the top of your head ...

    CB ESA is a nightmare ... I m grateful to you ... thanks... 
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    edited May 27
    The Benefit Office finally got back to me today from Monday. Despite me telling them and the CA Unit telling them I was entitled to Carers premium my ESA was not amended. All the letters I have are wrong. The DM I spoke to refused to back date my ESA IR claim. They have dated the change this week. 

    They had looked at the mail the letter i sent I usually write is not on my file. But CA Unit did tell me they had informed ESA IR of my CA and premium in a phone call (which they record). Also have various staff who told me 2 x Carers on file but not paid so I will see were I can go with that  ... 

    So I m waiting on the letter to arrive and ask for Mandatory Reconsideration .. I need it back dating not due to the cash but my legal aid funding application ... these people seem unaware of pandemic and the real trouble you have getting through to them... been locked in house for one year ! 

    I'm very grateful to the input from Calcotti, very grateful to you in fact ... The input is a massive help .. you probably may not understand what that means to people ....

    I now have my ESA IR which I hope to keep until the day UC arrives on my step ... never hopefully ... 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 27
    Not sure I completely follow that post.

    My understanding is that you are now getting two carer premiums in the ESA. That is at least a start.

    If they have only made the change from this week then you are absolutely right to request an MR of the decision not to backdate to the date your CA underlying entitlement began. You will need to wait for a letter confirming the change before requesting the MR.

    There is an expectation that claimants tell DWP benefit departments about any changes to their other benefits and that they shouldn’t not rely on communication within the DWP so you should set out everything you know and try and recall, to the best of your ability, when you told DWP what.

    if necessary you can request all the data DWP hold on you
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-your-personal-information-from-the-department-for-work-and-pensions
    https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/personal-information-request/name


    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you ... I am now getting two x Carers premiums ... which is good .. ESA IR is back .... 

    I need the claim back dating due to my legal aid application - CB ESA is means tested the DWP told them I was on CB ESA but they were wrong taking my ESA IR off me. But I need that explaining to the Legal Aid people speaking to Solicitor tomorrow ... to see how the land lies with this .. really awkward one.

    I will have to follow through on it  ... expectations are not regulations or rules though will have to battle that bit possibly ..

    But thank you .. these are difficult times for us all - even the DWP !
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,263 Pioneering
    edited May 27
    There was a Northern Island tribunal case which may be relevant because it deals with the need to inform different departments. However because it is NI case it is not binding on in England.
    https://iaccess.communities-ni.gov.uk/NIDOC/users/ViewAttachment.aspx?r=XCqwy2IzCZg=
    Essentially it comes down to, in this day and age with modern computer systems it’s not unreasonable to think DWP can join the Dotson themselves.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you that is so helpful .. 
    Im grateful to you ...
  • Apollo14LMPApollo14LMP Member Posts: 25 Listener
    edited June 27
    My IR ESA has now been reinstated and is now being paid. The MR submitted was rejected by the Decision Maker who agreed the post has been pretty awful and getting through by phone problematic (understandable at this time).

    In rejecting my MR which Included a mention of the NI case the DM has sent the my case to another office - Dispute Resolution for a FULL MR ?? whatever that means - they told me that I will hear from them in due course.   

    Im lost as to why it has been sent on again .. I am grateful to have sorted my ESA and had my IR element restored and for the brilliant advice I got here - I am grateful thank you ... 

    My court case against the DWP and LA continues on for Directions in due course. My Legal Aid restored !

    I now understand why it is so difficult to sue the DWP and LAs - even with some of the best legal minds - it is far from an easy task ..
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