PIP, DLA and AA
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Likelihood a revised claim will be accepted?

MrsFray20MrsFray20 Member Posts: 2 Listener
My mum has been on PIP standard since she was 64 (now 70) and has never been reviewed. Her health has deteriorated in the past 2 years and mobility is limited.  My dad has also recently been diagnosed with cancer, therefore I care for them both whilst also working full time.  My mum is scared to be reviewed as she has heard "rumours" that they are throwing people off the scheme due to stricter criteria.  I believe she should be on the higher benefit due to her condition and my dad's, as I have to travel back and forth to see them daily and assist with daily living with no car.  The option to lease a car would be ideal and make such a difference.
Thanks for reading. 

Replies

  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 7,339 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi there 

    I am not 100% sure but my after checking internet  my understanding is that unless you have an award for mobility in place before state retirement age you are not able to put in a new claim gor the mobility element which is what you would need for a car 

    I would contact welfare rights to get advice 

    Or hopefully someone else in here will advise 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 443 Pioneering
    Janer is correct. A mobility component cannot be added (or increased) after pension age has been reached. Therefore your mother has no possibility of accessing a Motability car. If she is only getting Standard rate Daily Living she can ask to be reviewed to see if she is entitled to the Enhanced Rate. If your father is not already getting a disability benefit himself he could see if he might qualify for Attendance Allowance.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 6,896 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2
    Hi @MrsFray20 - & welcome to the community. Your mum could contact the DWP (Tel: 0800 121 4433) to report a change of circumstances as her condition has worsened, then she would be sent a new PIP claim form. The criteria are not stricter, & rumours are just that, as I'm sure you know. So, as long as this is filled out giving a couple of recent detailed explanations as to the difficulties she's faced for each applicable descriptor, this would go a long way in helping her PIP claim. It's these real life examples that are needed. What happens when she attempts an activity/descriptor, why is it difficult, who witnessed it, when did it happen, & what, if any, are the consequences of attempting/doing such activities?
    Also the concept of 'reliability' is very important, i.e. can an activity be done safely, to an acceptable standard, & can she repeat an activity as often as would be normally expected, & does it take her longer than someone without her disability? If you would look through the following link this may give an idea as to where points may be awarded for both the daily living & mobility components. Please also read the notes at the end. Please see: https://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/asset-library/Scores-for-PIP-Descriptors-2020.pdf
    As mentioned above, unfortunately her standard award for mobility can no longer be increased.
    I hope this helps, & your Mum might feel reassured. :)

  • MrsFray20MrsFray20 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Thank you all. That's great advice. I was not aware of the mobility car being unavailable post retirement age. Should of found this site sooner. I will read up on the page you have suggested too. Must also add my dad is not on PIP he claims a private pension, which is also why we believed he was not entitled. Thanks again! 
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,915 Disability Gamechanger
    @MrsFray20 look into Attendance Allowance for your dad if he has care needs, AA has no mobility component though.
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 443 Pioneering
    More information on PIP here Personal Independence Payment - Citizens Advice and information on AA here Attendance Allowance - Citizens Advice. Neither of these are means tested so dad's income is not relevant.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2
    Well this rather highlights the “wrong advice” issue which is coming to the fore again as people strive and jostle to be the new Poppy. 

    You can claim mobility after pensionable age. Please do not advise to the contrary. It is something to seek professional advice on.

    https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/16850
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 443 Pioneering
    edited February 2
    Mike, the thread you refers to is an appeal concerning a decision about refusing to add mobility to an award based on the law as it stood before the introduction of the Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 which changed the law from 30th November 2020. This is actually referred to by Elliott in one of the posts in that discussion.

    That new regulation has, as I understand it, closed down what the DWP perceived to be a loophole.

    (I for one am not striving or jostling to be somebody else, and would never claim to infallible. As the rightsnet discussions show there is room for differences of opinion between people who are benefits advisers.)
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 7,339 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike 

    I did state it was only what I had found on internet and that was gov advice 

    I also said to get expert advice 

    Apologies to op if I caused any confusion and anyone else who agreed 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    And as the thread also points out very clearly you are looking at the law in place at the time of the claim. If the person achieved pensionable post the change then the change is relevant. Otherwise, not. 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 443 Pioneering
    edited February 2
    And the opening post says she is now 70 and change occurred in last two years. As she has also only been on PIP since the age of 64 I infer that was as a result of transfer from DLA to PIP. Clearly it is not possible to demonstrate that any mobility issues are 10 years old prior to the last PIP assessment.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 6,896 Disability Gamechanger
    Apologies, as this is not necessarily relevant to the OP, but I can't see Jane posting anything other than what she normally does, & I don't feel I'm doing any different either. Yes, there are sometimes/often problems with benefit advice posted, but I'm certainly not striving/jostling to be the new Poppy. I've mentioned on previous threads, that I only have a fraction of her knowledge. The fact I'm interested in learning more about benefits (ask Adrian if some of my previous replies haven't shown this), does not imply I'm trying to be like Poppy, someone for whom I have the utmost respect, thank you. I'm also aware that calcotti, whom I don't know, will in fact know Poppy. They also have made their own disclaimer, which I have no cause other than to respect.
    As ever, I respect your viewpoint, but not your penultimate post as regards people trying to be the 'new Poppy.'
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    calcotti said:
    And the opening post says she is now 70 and change occurred in last two years. As she has also only been on PIP since the age of 64 I infer that was as a result of transfer from DLA to PIP. Clearly it is not possible to demonstrate that any mobility issues are 10 years old prior to the last PIP assessment.
    Not quite sure what your point is. Got PIP from 64. Developed mobility issues at 68. 

    To quote “ The cumulative effect of regs 27(2)-(4) in your client’s case is that a supersession based on a change of circumstances which occurred post-pension age could not be made which awards ERM for the first time. 

    However using the medical evidence ground under reg 26 D&A avoids that restriction entirely, so the default rule in reg 27(1) i.e. that any supersession is permitted, applies.”.

    That second para. is key. 

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 443 Pioneering
    edited February 2
    mikehughescq said: Not quite sure what your point is. Got PIP from 64. Developed mobility issues at 68. 

    To quote “ The cumulative effect of regs 27(2)-(4) in your client’s case is that a supersession based on a change of circumstances which occurred post-pension age could not be made which awards ERM for the first time. 

    However using the medical evidence ground under reg 26 D&A avoids that restriction entirely, so the default rule in reg 27(1) i.e. that any supersession is permitted, applies.”.

    That second para. is key. 

    As you said here
    If the person achieved pensionable post the change then the change is relevant. Otherwise, not. 
    So my point was that clearly in this case the change took place after reaching pensionable age (which in this case would have been 60) so the change is not relevant.

    I am not clear what you are quoting from but hasn’t this option been removed by the amendment regulation in force since 30/11/2020?
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 7,339 Disability Gamechanger
    In my opinion all this has done will be to totally confuse the original poster and others 

    Do we really have to go through all this sort of backward and forward 

    Personally I would like to know the answer to a simple question that was asked ad I am now myself confused 

    So if I can ask if someone is over pension age and has daily living pip but isnt already in receipt of enhanced mobility can they get it if they tried now in 2021 

    I just want a simple answer 

    @Adrian_Scope maybe you can give your input here 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    @chiarieds you are welcome to disagree with my observation. It was solely based on a benign but amused perception of mine that a number of posters of varying lengths of membership have suddenly seen an increase in their post count and a similar increase in the range of forums in which they post. That has been allied to an increase in the number of subtle passive challenges to other posters. Asking questions where previously they might have been silent. 

    I used to be part of a group who administrated an exceptionally busy and fairly aggressive site. You become attuned to subtle changes of mood or approach remarkably quickly unfortunately. Certainly not aimed @janer1967 who has always posted fairly quickly and broadly, 

    From my perspective I am as I say benignly amused. Whilst I’ve strong opinions on the administration of this site and the consequences of that it’s not up to me to administrate it.

    If that’s what people want to do then they’re going to do it regardless. It will make no difference to the little I post. It will likely make a difference in other ways in terms of the quality of advice and the tone of the place i.e. posters spreading themselves too thinly and it all getting a tad tetchy. 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 443 Pioneering
    edited February 2
    janer1967 said: So if I can ask if someone is over pension age and has daily living pip but isnt already in receipt of enhanced mobility can they get it if they tried now in 2021 

    I just want a simple answer.
    I completely agree that these extended back and forth exchanges are likely to lead to confusion.
    My understanding is that the answer is no. Mike has a different understanding.


    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    @calcotti I fear we may accidentally be at cross purposes. My general point was that you cam claim PIP MC not only when the issue existed pre pensionable age as previously believed but also when it occurs for the first time post pensionable age. I posted the thread to explain that. 

    You then suggested recent changes closed this latter option. I agree that it does where the person turns pensionable age after the legislative change. That doesn’t apply to the OP though so the option to challenge is one for them to explore. 

    @janer1967 yes they can but only if either their condition existed before pensionable age or, if it did not, then their PIP claim existed before the legislation purporting to fix this last year. 

    Regrettably social security is an area where people understandably crave simple yes or no answers but they often only exist with caveats. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m not quite sure why people think discussion should be forbidden on a discussion forum! 

    If you post a view which purports to be fact then as long as you can link to information to back that up rather than, for example, “it’s true cos I say it is” then people can read and make they’re own minds up. Here we have two different perspectives. I’ve explained mine. It’s all I can do. 

    I’m sorry if people find that confusing. That’s how these issues work. We look at the law, the case law and the guidance; sometimes come to different conclusions and often get the chance to test that out. Once again perhaps it illustrates the fundamental difficulties of a claimant led forum.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community champion Posts: 6,896 Disability Gamechanger
    Having read the link Mike posted, dare I say it, I understood hopefully, that in this case the OP's Mum could possibly get the enhanced rate for mobility.
    Having said that, as I hope Mike knows, I respect him. If he now has a poor opinion of myself, then I'd rather step back from 'trying' to give any benefits advice, tho if he cared to look back over the past month even, he would see my replies haven't changed. Then I ask myself, why am I here, a robot could say 'Hi & welcome' to newcomers. I'll remain silent, whilst you can remain benignly amused. Perhaps if I do that for long enough you may believe what I've said after all.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,341 Disability Gamechanger
    Good grief. No poor opinion of you here @chiarieds. The exact opposite. People seem to have taken a general observation as personally applicable to them. I’m more happy to publicly apologise for that if that’s how my observation has been taken. 
  • janer1967janer1967 Community champion Posts: 7,339 Disability Gamechanger
    Just to add as my name has been mentioned my stance on advice I give 

    I am in no way trying to fill anyone shoes . I have always in the 2 years being on here advised where I can as mike and chiareds have said 

    However I have learnt a lot in that time which has given me the knowledge to be able to advise more 

    All I aim to do and continue to do is give advice where I can 
  • woodbinewoodbine Member Posts: 2,915 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm not sure I like the reference to people jostling and striiving to be the new poppy, poppy is alive and kicking and offering her advice widely and freely elsewhere, as I've seen only an hour ago.

    Poppy during her time on scope was both patient and kind and usually didn't try and get to bogged down on the technical side of benefits issues.

    But thats of course going off topic and I hold my hand up I can be guilty of doing that, but it does seem to be a real problem on this forum that too many of us too often go off topic.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing Team, Community Team Posts: 7,941 Scope community team
    We’re receiving a lot of reports about this thread and as a result are closing it pending a proper review in the morning. 
    - Adrian 
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    If you have a few minutes to spare, we'd appreciate your feedback on our online community.
  • Cher_ScopeCher_Scope Community Team Posts: 2,727 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 3

    Hi everyone,

    After a review of the thread by the community team, a few points need addressing:

    • Please keep discussion on the topic of the OP’s query.  Respectful debate is absolutely permitted and a healthy component of any online community.  However, when broader issues between members are unnecessarily drawn into conversation it risks making all feel unwelcome and dissuaded from seeking support in the future.  Indeed, it also detracts from us forging a positive community environment where all opinions are respected, even if not agreed with.  To reiterate, please report any issues to the Scope team to deal with by using the flag button, rather than respond to posts in the heat of the moment and in anger/frustration. 
    • Unfortunately, it’s clear that there is some debate about a conclusive answer to your question @MrsFray20 So I would urge you to get independent advice from either the Citizens Advice or a local organisation, which you can find by inputting your postcode onto the Advicelocal website and selecting 'Welfare benefits' from the drop down list.  Good luck 😊

    This thread will now be closed to avoid further deviation from the OP.  Thank you all.  

    Online Community Co-ordinator

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