support with my mum's MR stage

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freeworld
freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
edited February 2021 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Would love to hear from Mike about my next steps to support my mom's post decision process. It will be the MR stage. She went from standard living component for several years to asking DWP to look at the awards again as conditions have worsened. I get this is classed as a new claim. She got 0 / 0 on the new claim and they stopped the standard award. My question to Mike is, as most MR do not get looked at with much consideration, is it worth writing up a detailed response or the whole purpose of the detailed response is that it is used in the tribunal stage???? 

I'm just wondering, as to what stage to focus on the evidence bundle and get it spot on. I hate it when I put in effort only to get a copy and paste response. 

I hope you have understood where I'm coming from with this query. Any support and response would be much appreciated. 

Plus can I use a previous HCP report to challenge the latest one and show contradictions??? Or is it best to just focus on examples of descriptors along with evidence statements from those that offer the extra support to do those said activities??? 

Love you all. Stay strong and blessed.
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  • Ross_Alumni
    Ross_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,611 Championing
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    Hello @freeworld

    Welcome to the community, glad you've joined us, I hope you manage to find your way around the platform okay but please ensure you ask us if there's anything you are struggling with.

    Just to clarify, when you ask for the opinion of Mike, do you mean @Username_removed? Or another Mike?
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,005 Championing
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    I would recommend treating the MR as a serious exercise in trying to get the award revised.

    According to the last set of official statistics I could find 42% of MRs do result in a revised award (although some of those may have gone down).

    Even if the MR is unsuccessful the information you have provided at that stage will help inform an appeal.
  • Lou67
    Lou67 Community member Posts: 8,463 Championing
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    Hi as above I definitely recommend you treat your MR seriously. I got part off my award changed at MR and the other part at appeal. I just want to wish you well with it. Take Care. 
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    Hi All,

    Thank you for your thoughts.

    To answer the question it is @Username_removed.....

    Plus I will put full effort in for the MR then. I'm awaiting the HCP formulated by capita to be sent from DWP.  
    I will use the descriptors to say why I believe X points apply to Y descriptor and give X,Y,Z examples. Can I just ask those who have had successful MR's did you provide 3 examples for each descriptor or is it better to get written statements from those ppl that live and support mom with said activities. Or is it best to do both. 

    The reason I ask these questions is Mike previously stated not to write an essay for the MR. But it is clearly going to be 4-5 pages of writing to provide a few examples of each descriptor and give statements of the household members to say what they support my mother with on a day to day basis. 

    I just find this whole pip process comical. My mother puts in a claim whilst receiving pip as her issues have got worse and even though she was on an award they managed to score her zero points on everything. It's beyond me. 
    But as with most things that concern the government and their depts it's all about the budget and spend. I have been made aware that there has been an overspend on pip, so I genuinely believe it's an exercise that's being performed lately to get the numbers in order.

    But in all honesty I'm not bothered about all that. I just want to play the game correctly, and anyone who has experience of winning MR and/or appeals to support me with the best advice possible to get through this. 

    Peace
  • ASDIBS
    ASDIBS Community member Posts: 72 Contributor
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    I puts lots of effort when preparing my MR letter. Unfortunately, it was still refused so we're at the appeals stage now. Good luck. Hope all goes well ?
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    Well bit of an update. Called regarding my own pip claim. Depression Anxiety.... And the chap stated I had any award looking at the report but a final decision will be made. The funny part about all this, my mum's pip claim was 0/0 and she is 200% worse then me when it comes to daily living and mobility. System is definitely flawed and it is definitely a monopoly at the moment. A change does need to come. I would be first to admit my mum would need pip more then I do. Yet she scores zero and I get an award...... Actual points of mine to be updated soon once actual decision letter arrives.
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Username_removed. Your thoughts on using templates for MR??? Using advice now site. Peace
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Username_removed I agree in part. 
    I've taken the task at hand as if I'm dealing with tribunal stage. Hence I will just ask tribunal to rely on my MR as grounds for appeal. 

    I wouldn't read too much into what was written in reports. I genuinely believe that HCP staff have a certain KPI to meet and therefore some reports just have to suffer and get the copy and paste treatment. 

    Mum put all the evidence down in original claim form along with the usual medical letters etc. 

    This assessment came about because my mum was asking for more help after being on an award that would have ended in a couple years time. Yet as you know it is treated as a new claim and the assessment stated nil points. It is only for this reason am I putting to DWP that your HCP and assessment reports are flawed because their opinion is flawed. The same company but different assessor claimed that pip should be awarded until a certain date, 2023.  Before that date has expired the same company put the opinion forward that pip should not be awarded, (2021)..... Which one is correct???

    I've done all that I can. According to the descriptors mum should be on award and enhanced for both. I have taken over from MR stage and dealing with DWP. I'm not going to send in any further medical evidence as they have it already. The MR is written and is 8 pages giving examples of what I witnessed when asking mum to do the tasks. Statements from Mums daughter in law has also been provided to say what she does and when she steps in to help with the daily living tasks. All in all probably 10-12 pages to be read. 

    I strongly believe the MR stage solely depends on who you get to decide. Some are better then others and some care and some don't. 

    Thanks for the tip of bringing the MR to life and distinguishing help due to love and help due to care that is needed. Never thought of that perspective. 


    What's more important Mike is that the PIP system is comical. I say that from first hand experience. 

    My mum genuinely needs PIP there's no question about it. 

    But me.... I'd say not nowhere near. I literally put in a claim because I was bored. I have had depression on my medical record and haven't seen doctors for over five years. I managed to get PIP somehow, I don't know the exact scores yet but I was told at, request of report stage, that I definitely have an award. I await official decision letter.
    But my mum gets 0 points all round.
    Do I think it's comical...... Hell yeah I do.


  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Username_removed you spent a lot of time explaining something that I'm not doing. My MR does not state anything about the HCP report. I literally wrote one sentence to say it's not agreed with in whole. That's it. Never referred to it again in my MR. That comment was just a reflection on why claims fail. 

    You seem to be of the opinion that the claimant should understand everything about pip then, 'play the game', so to speak.
    I fully understand that the burden of proof is on the one making the claim but I beg to differ in this public service situation.

    Many people that apply for PIP don't understand what DWP mean by certain words/questions and often fail there. They are not aware of what the DWP are looking for to attain an award. Surely the whole purpose of HCP being brought in is to obtain that information from the claimant in order to see if they fit within a particular descriptor. Many don't feel, that they have to fight with the DWP, to get an award, but in reality some have to put up a fight for it. 

    In regards to KPI's ect. I'm in doubt that full attention and respect is given to every assessment that sits on an assessors desk. You talk about evidence to support this; it is not present however it is carried out in such a way so as to not be proved. How would you prove such a thing???? 
    I've worked in office scenarios whether insurance banking etc and trust me when I say it's all a front and they don't give a damn diddly squat. Same will be the case here. The copy and paste norm tells me a lot. Also as with any other sector of business a lot relies on who you get for an assessor. I assure you of we did an experiment of providing two identical claims with the same assessment answers we will get two different outcomes. Yes they are putting forth an opinion but that opinion must be based on the parameters set by DWP.

    Bottom line of this situation is like I said originally. In the U.K it's not about what is right or wrong or whether you are guilty or not guilty of something. It's all about whether you know the legislation in order to 'play the game'. 

    You also need to remember that you working at appeals level has a different spin on things compared to dealing with people who are just doing a job as opposed to those who want to make sure they are applying the law appropriately. There's a big difference. 

    Lastly I am going to challenge the offsetting of my back pay against a DWP debt. I haven't seen any guidance on DWP offsetting against debt, only guidance on deductions. Have you had any cases that challenged this in your 30 odd year career???? Back pay is £5299 - debt £3900. 

    Peace

  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 12,117 Championing
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    I'm 100% certain that Mike was doing his level best to help, and if he repeatably request that people do not tag him onto post then his request should be accepted.
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Username_removed @woodbine  u really think I knew he requested not to be tagged??? 

    If he doesn't like being tagged I'm sure the administrators of this site can remove that function. 

    Plus Mike has lost touch with the initial process of PIP, that's the issue here. As his work involves appeals and they're looked at by people who do things as they were originally legislated for. 


  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
    edited February 2021
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    You seem to think that HCP and DM have an understanding of law..... I assure you it's more a case of procedure for them. 

    [Edited by moderator - personal attack]
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 12,117 Championing
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    free world you really can't help your self can you Mike has constantly asked not to be tagged and yet you persist as he says quite rude
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Scope Posts: 12,443 Championing
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    Hi all,

    @freeworld, I've edited your latest comment above as it includes a personal attack against another member, which isn't something we allow on the community. You can refresh your memory of the community guidelines here.

    Your comment:
    Plus Mike has lost touch with the initial process of PIP, that's the issue here. As his work involves appeals and they're looked at by people who do things as they were originally legislated for. 
    Is also directed toward another member, not the content of their comment. I've left that comment unedited for now for context, as Mike has addressed it in his reply. However, this is pending review.

    If you continue to aim personal attacks towards other members, we'll take further action.

    In terms of tagging, I don't believe that we do have the ability to prevent certain members from being tagged. Some members prefer not to be tagged, so please bear this in mind when commenting and posting on the community. Other members will have insight to offer, so it's not usually necessary to tag users in posts. If you're replying to a comment, you don't necessarily need to tag the user you're replying to, especially if they've asked not to be tagged. Some members will have set up notifications so that they get notified when someone replies to a post they've commented on, and others prefer to just check back to see if anyone's replied. No member is ever under any pressure to reply to a post or comment they don't want to reply to.

    I'm keeping this thread open for now, as your queries are ongoing. We will close the discussion if the conversation ceases to be constructive.
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Tori_Scope Sorry am I missing something here? Where is the ad hominem against @Username_removed????  I simply spoke about the arguments put forth not spoke about him personally, I can't, I don't know him nor am I a peer of his to make judgements. 

    Mike is a good guy. I like him. Just cos we disagree doesn't mean it's the end of the world, it's Free world. 

    The point I'm making is that they're vulnerable people out there who couldn't get the best deal on a phone contract let alone navigate around the PIP system. It's not their fault, social economics, cognitive issues, social depravation concerning education, mental health issues etc. They should be assisted at assessment stage to extract what issues they have and then make an informed opinion on whether this person qualifies.  If it's a form filling excercise with a few questions later down the line, then leave it with the DWP. I'm sure millions would be saved. 

    Put simply the money should be going to where is needed most. Mum didn't get pip and I did. I literally put my claim in as a shot in the dark. But the fact that the person not in need got it is a cause for concern. 

    Leave the thread open solely for update on the MR and subsequent appeal. So ppl can get an understanding of the process. 

    No need to really reply unless you want some back and forth just because it's lockdown...... 

    Peace
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @woodbine being rude is subjective. Simply ignore. It's not going to harm you.  I find getting junk mail and marketing post rude, does it happen? Yes! Do I fret over it? No! ..... 


  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Username_removed Well that's why I said leave it open for the updates of outcomes and decisions only so ppl can see the conclusion rather then be left wondering what happen. 

    The contention with the comments matter was that of an allegation of making ad hominems. The point I'm making is that was none. I'm only dealing with the content not the content creator. 

    Not once have I said any poster is wrong. Each have their opinion. Just like HCP have their opinions aswell as DM. Speaking of DM's it was really interested why certain regular posters at Scope marginalized a DM from DWP to provide some insight as to what happens at MR stage. He was opening up and provided inside info as to what really happens as opposed to what people perceive to happen. However poppy repeatedly told him he is not welcome here. Interesting. More interesting was his comments, it's a shame he was unwelcome. 

    Just got clarity in not challenging anything you state Mike. You have your view on things and I have mine. You don't need to reply to a post. 

    Happy hunting.

    Peace
  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    Just a quick update: I got my back pay in full. As expected, before any decision letter. 
    They was no attempt to pay off any existing debt with DWP. Interesting to know why they swollow up some claimants back pay and not others. Maybe it's down to the person performing the admin tasks at the time??? 

    Mum's MR will be sent of Monday. Consists of 19 pages. 17 pages for descriptors and examples with what couldn't be done and what tasks could be done in respective activity. 2 pages is a statement from everyday unofficial carer (daughter in law). 
    Left a note to DM that further evidence may follow. Such as West Midlands Fire Service incident report of chip pan fire. Mum's fault. Support letters from doctors and respective nurses for there specialist areas. 

    What are your thoughts on support letters, every it be from GP or nurses??    If they are worded as such "...... in my opinion i believe so and so does qualify for PIP based on the descriptors that I have read. And after studying the point system, In my opinion they would get X points and  Y points. ....."




    @Username_removed nothing more valuable then a person on the inside. That's been my experience with any sector of business. A lot more gets done with favourable outcomes when such people are in the mix. 

    For example when I was working in the energy sector. The company was making people pay for bills that were not billed for over 18months (system glitch) .... However I would call the customer out side of work to let them know that they don't need to pay such bills due to the regulators 'backbilling' rule. Basically energy companies can't bill you if they haven't done so in a 12 month period. 

    Had I not done that these customers would of been ripped off by the company and never of known about the back billing rule. 

    So for me inside affiliate is worth its weight in gold.

    Further updates will follow should they come along. Please wait 8 weeks or so. 

    Happy hunting


  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    @Username_removed. It's okay Mike. You don't need to respond. Feel free not to. It's a free world. 

    I am calling out Scope on why they take instruction from posters to say who should and shouldn't get moderated. Is this the best way to manage a policy. Surely it's open to corruption if posters are moderated upon request. 

    I'm sure Scope are capable of managing the internal policies and will approach me with any concerns that they may have. 

    I hope all are in best of spirits.

    Happy hunting

    Peace


  • freeworld
    freeworld Community member Posts: 19 Connected
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    Update time.

    So as you seem I done the MR all by myself and by using the template from benefit advice now. 

    It was a success!!!!

    Mum got her usual PIP reinstated and as a bonus for standard mobility rate also. 

    All in all it was just a 9 page document (approx) that stated why she fits into descriptors. A statement from a family member that sees her daily and asked her to carry out certain tasks and reported the findings in the statement. 

    No other evidence was sent. 

    Result. Award issued until 2025 with review point Jan 2025.


This discussion has been closed.