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Lockdown

Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
edited March 12 in Coffee lounge
Im tired of mp's and the like demanding things open up sooner, the extra risk, so people who die because of this are just collateral damage! Hypothetically, would you give up your job/business if it would save your family? Yes, people are losing jobs/money, but what about the people that are losing family members? That affects mental health a lot more than losing your job, which can be replaced. Which is a fact there's no job security in this country anyway, like the minister that told nurses,  they should be grateful for THEIR job security. I wish people would think of the bigger picture than just themselves. 
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Replies

  • fluffycatfluffycat Member Posts: 215 Pioneering
    Better 'steady' as you go as this 'lock/unlock' is tedious and wasteful for food businesses etc.

    Trouble is people go 'silly' when unlock!!

    The week before full lockdown last Spring, hospitality was heaving AND when restrictions were lesser there were huge groups partying in the park with loud music etc. Wine bars etc. were like bees to honey-pot with outside seating.

    If we could trust people we could unlock sooner!!! I'm careful to go places when quieter and avoid queues where possible. Even quieter stretches of parkland or later in day.
    (shops seem more fuller and less social distancing)
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    Losing your job through no fault of your own will have a massive impact on peoples mental health please don't undermine that, only today there have been a number of announcements, rolls royce to cut 9,000 jobs, john lewis will not reopen some of their department stores ever again, and 300 bank branches will close this summer, these are real jobs affecting real people. The govt. has a sound plan which takes us out of lockdown step by step, but there is a fine line between protecting the health of the nation and it's wealth, GDP fell 10% last year, v 2019, in January it fell 3% you can expect it to fall by 4% for Feb and maybe the same in March. £billions have been poured into protecting jobs and the economy and the national debt is around £2.2 trillion, eye watering amounts, that will have to be repaid at some point down the line.
    Yes deaths from covid19 are sad and you have to feel for the families who have lost loved ones, but at the end of the day it's hardly been the plague or the black death has it?And we now have a successful vaccine roll out which has been nothing short of superb.
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • fluffycatfluffycat Member Posts: 215 Pioneering
    Very difficult, Italy scenes were absolutely tragic and the lockdown (though as you say another  disaster was created by lockdown) potentially prevented those scenes, though we had huge numbers dying.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    edited March 13
    The economy is my point, Wealth, this can all be recouped, and we'll still be better off than some 3rd world countries. Too much of life is about having loads of money. So what if we have to use foodbanks, or cant afford that bottle of wine. People need people, not possessions or luxuries. Why do we look at this less,than if we we're at war? This virus has killed more people than the 2nd world war. But it's ok because it's not people killing us??? This enemy 'won't' stop because we're are getting poorer! As long as we put wealth before life,this enemy will always win. I personally dont care if we go back to the dark ages, itll solve the levelling up problem for one.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    @#$$$@ are complaining about police breaking the unbelievable ignorant crowd up. They were told 'not' to go. What!!! So the police just stand by and shrug their shoulders??? Ive got a chance of going blind because I cant get the operations i need, because of people like them. How many people have already died because of people like them. They risk so many other people's lives, but they jump the queue if/when they catch it. I would probably get banned from here if i wrote what I really think of them. 
    Right to protest! Aye, do it online, or donate like the organisers said. I think they are responsible for it anyway. Plant the seed and it will grow. 
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    I cant believe what I'm hearing, it could be 'guaranteed' that everyone at an organised meeting will stick to the rules!!! It takes a couple of people to transmit the virus, if 1 person dies because of that, thats another family lost a member of their family. The rifht to life should far outweigh any demo's or meetings. But them, it could never be proved it came from that meeting, so thats ok.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    Ive just had my brothers service on Thursday, i couldn't mourn him the way i wanted too, who the @#$% do these people think they are thinking they can do what they want for someone they didn't know. I'm mourning, what about me? I'm nit bothered if you kick me off here, if people on here think that putting other lives at risk is ok,as long as its for a cause, i don't want to be here. I'm all for causes, done reasonably. 
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    My argument for anyone who think I'm being unreasonable. 1, can they guarantee everyone there will stick to the rules? 2, can they guarantee everyone there is there for the same reason? (Disruptors). 3, women haters there to gloat. If anyone can argue that these are acceptable risks, ill bow down to them.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    edited March 15
    Oh,but howay, they wanted to mourn, anyone dying from their actions is just collateral damage. Dont forget, the right to hold peaceful protest or vigil, supersedes the right to life. I mean,they couldn't do what 100s of thousands of other women did, light candles or their phones ar their doors. half my family can't go to my brother's service, but thats different, its only my family. 
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    Audinut70 said:
    The economy is my point, Wealth, this can all be recouped, and we'll still be better off than some 3rd world countries. Too much of life is about having loads of money. So what if we have to use foodbanks, or cant afford that bottle of wine. People need people, not possessions or luxuries. Why do we look at this less,than if we we're at war? This virus has killed more people than the 2nd world war. But it's ok because it's not people killing us??? This enemy 'won't' stop because we're are getting poorer! As long as we put wealth before life,this enemy will always win. I personally dont care if we go back to the dark ages, itll solve the levelling up problem for one.
    Sorry but I have to take issue with your "figures" WW2 killed 75 million covid so far upto 14/3/21 worldwide has killed 2.6 million. Giving incorrect figures on a subject like this can actually frighten some people.
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Posts: 4,363 Disability Gamechanger
    Well if the scientists are right with what has been said that doing things to fast will end up with a third wave by May 

    7 schools have been closed across Wales becsuse of corona virus cases 

    All any one can do is keep their self safe 

    It doesn't matter what any of us say it is what it is and we just have to get on with life the best way you can 

    It's going to be around for a whilst even if you have had the vacine you still have to wear a mask and keep your distance so it's no different 
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    Sorry, i meant in this country, i assumed people would think the same. It didn't even occur to me about other countries. Ive just done s Google, and the numbers for some countries is mind numbing. God bless our raf pilots, and military. 
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    UK ww2 military deaths 382,000 plus civilian deaths of around 70,000 = 450,000
    Covid UK deaths to date 125,500
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Posts: 4,363 Disability Gamechanger
    How ever many deaths there have been its still way to many  this is an invisible war with covid you dont know where or when or if its going to happen so we just do the best we can to stay safe 
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    But I do believe @lisathomas50 that if people are going to bandy figures around they should bare some relation to the fact. :)
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Posts: 4,363 Disability Gamechanger
    @woodbine yes sorry I get that point of it  but as I said it is what it is we have to keep ourselves  safe so we don't end up in those numbers so many people have died 

    How many people died in the plague @woodbine out of interest that went on for about four years until it ran its course if I remember  rightly I could be wrong and apologise if I am 
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Posts: 4,363 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry I am not messaging so much at the moment just grabbing time when I can 
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,534 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 15
    @lisathomas50 almost 25 million people died from the plague almost a third of the then European population. So in % terms that would be 133 million today.
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • leeCalleeCal Member Posts: 3,711 Disability Gamechanger
    @lisathomas50 you don’t have to go back as far as the plague, just until the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic.

    ’Before COVID-19, the most severe pandemic in recent history was the 1918 influenza virus, often called “the Spanish Flu.” The virus infected roughly 500 million people—one-third of the world’s population—and caused  50 million deaths worldwide (double the number of deaths in World War I). In the United States, a quarter of the population caught the virus, 675,000 died, and life expectancy dropped by 12 years. With no vaccine to protect against the virus, people were urged to isolate, quarantine, practice good personal hygiene, and limit social interaction.’
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Posts: 4,363 Disability Gamechanger
    @leeCal thanks for that I knew about the Spanish flu but not how many people died thsts why I asked how many people died in the plague 

    From what you have said lessons should of been learnt then 
  • lisathomas50lisathomas50 Posts: 4,363 Disability Gamechanger
    @woodbine thank  you  let's hope the corona virus doesn't cause that many deaths  
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    edited March 16
    This had been blown all out if proposition, i meant civilians in Britain, sorry the UK. Armed forces are basically sent to their deaths by their leaders, death for some is inevitable. I'm sorry for not stating that, and thinking people would know what I meant, but my figures were correct. I just know that people are dying unnecessarily by people having large gatherings. Its never going to end,until people stop thinking it wont/can't happen to them,or they're just not bothered/think it's not real. The vaccine is useless if people keep opening doors for the virus to move and mutate, just for those that think the vaccine is our saviour, only people can stop it.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    edited March 16
    Are holocaust deaths included in your figures? Im not clear if it was the war, or racism, which category would they come under, it wasn't made clear to me. Nit picking just detracts from the point being made. 
  • Cher_ScopeCher_Scope Posts: 4,071

    Scope community team

    @Audinut70 Understandably, this is a topic attracting different views but please remember to keep comments friendly and focused on the topic and not other members. Grief is hard and I'm sorry you have recently lost your brother. I have friends who've also lost loved ones during covid-19 and they share your upset at not being able to have all friends and family at the funeral. If you think you'd benefit from extra support with your bereavement, please let the team know so we can help. 
    Online Community Co-ordinator

    Want to tell us about your experience on the online community?  Talk to our chatbot and let us know.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    edited March 16
    That was my point. Looking for faults, assuming people can't make up their own minds whether they understand the message, takes it off topic. It was blatantly obvious i didn't mean world deaths. Rather than criticising my post, why not just 'ask' what I mean. My facts were correct, i made the mistake of not being specific, because i thought people would work it out for themselves. Or is that wrong? Or do i have to explain every post in detail. 
  • Cher_ScopeCher_Scope Posts: 4,071

    Scope community team

    edited March 16
    @Audinut70 There's no need to explain all posts in detail, but one thing to bear in mind is ensuring information shared is correct and appropriate (See community guidelines).  Although your comments might have seemed self-explanatory, the addition of statistics in this instance helped clarify the scale of covid-19 loss for those who could have misunderstood.  Let's remember to keep things topic-oriented and friendly so we can keep this conversation going :)
    Online Community Co-ordinator

    Want to tell us about your experience on the online community?  Talk to our chatbot and let us know.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,644 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 16
    There is an excellent book called Pale Rider by Laura Spinney. An equally excellent book called The Rules Of Contagion by Adam Kurcharski. I recommend both. 

    Several things are very clear in terms of lessons not learned.

    1 - between 1918 and 1924 hundreds of thousands of people had post viral symptoms. This is well documented and undisputed. The impact lasted decades. A century later people are challenging the existence of so-called "long-covid". It's laughable really. 

    2 - Spanish Flu, which had little to do with Spain (nor Kansas which is the other origin story) killed more in the rest of the world than all of WW1. The only exception was Europe where the war killed more. Thus we have wiped our collective memory of it. Much of the rest of the world has not. 

    3 - the single most abiding lesson of Spanish Flu was that the balancing act currently being attempted by the UK - economy v health - cannot be done. You only beat a pandemic by locking down early and long. The economy does not recover with gradual openings and further lockdowns. That is long known as the single worst approach. It failed literally everywhere it was attempted. Britain has a strong belief in its exceptionalism. Once again, we're not going to be the exception here. Until we do this properly we will, as at present, have the worst health scenario combined with the worst economic scenario. 

    4 - Vaccines are not the solution and will not allow us to reopen the economy. There are 4 factors (D.O.T.S.) which are impacted. A vaccine can reduce the S (susceptibility) but only if the vaccine is a cure. None of our current vaccines are cures. They reduce severity but not the numbers impacted. There are positive signs on transmission but we're a long way from solid evidence. Thus masks, social distancing etc. are all going to be needed and are likely to be the new normal for a long long time. Having a vaccine is not a reason to change your behaviour. Indeed that is the single worst thing you can do in terms of prolonging this. Of course, our government once again thinks we are exceptional and can prove a century's worth of science wrong. 

    Easy to forget that we are now entering the age of the pandemic. This is not going to be a one off event. Once in a lifetime etc. Our children are likely to grow up with this and extreme climate change as the norm.
  • Audinut70Audinut70 Member Posts: 122 Pioneering
    Thank you, someone that understand why I started this topic. The only way to rid ourselves of this virus  is stay away from people like your life depends on it, unless absolutely necessary, because ultimately, it might cost you, or someone else it.
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