PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP after appeal

dottie25dottie25 Member Posts: 5 Listener
Hi! 

So my appeal recently went to a paper-based tribunal (18th March) for my claim from February 2020. It resulted in them awarding me 4 points daily living and 12 points mobility, giving me only enhanced mobility. I'm as okay as I can be with that as I don't really have the energy to go through a PIP award intervention to try and get what I feel I'm entitled to based on my conditions at present. I also don't want to risk losing what the Judge has awarded me until 2023.

However, I do have a few questions that I was hoping some of you may have answers for, and any that can't be answered I will have my mum call PIP and ask about :smile:

On the Friday (19th March) a lady from PIP called to talk about what would happen next, I suppose. She told me what my award was as they received the paperwork before I did the next day. I had another claim ongoing from December 2020 because I was worried I wouldn't get anything at the tribunal and had a stronger case with worsening progression in my conditions. However, because I was awarded EM after the appeal, the new claim, understandably, had to be withdrawn so they could either start an intervention or move forward.

Since she called to find out whether I wanted to challenge the decision or stick with the award does that mean they're not going to ask for a statement of reasons and see if they want to appeal? I have growing concerns over this. She also said I would be paid within 2 weeks, which I again keep worrying about because a lot of people say it takes between 4 and 8 weeks to get the backdated payments and the new ones to start. 
She verified that my bank details were still the same and said she would get it sent through to the payment department. 

Also, does anyone know when I will receive my award letter at all?
I'm hoping to apply for a motability vehicle as the car I have isn't suitable for me (I have a manual but due to leg weakness I need an automatic) and I have horrendous issues with it breaking down. Not having to worry about this would bring a great amount of stress relief. However I don't know when I can get that started as although I know I've been awarded this by the tribunal, and have the papers, I don't have confirmation from PIP themselves except that phone call. 

TIA for any help! :blush:

Replies

  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,217 Pioneering
    edited March 23
    When DWP have processed the paperwork you will get a decision letter from DWP. You will be paid arrears due and the award will be put into payment. You will need the decision letter before you can use the Motability scheme.

    You say that made a new claim in December 2020. You say the new claim has been withdrawn - that isn’t normally possible. I would expect the new claim to still be progressed in the usual way and when that decision is made it will over ride the tribunal decision.

    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • dottie25dottie25 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thanks for the reply!

    Yes, that's all as I thought. Hopefully it's as quick as she suggested, but I think I'm going to have my mum call and see if that was correct just to be sure. 
    calcotti said:
    You say that made a new claim in December 2020. You say the new claim has been withdrawn - that isn’t normally possible. I would expect the new claim to still be progressed in the usual way and when that decision is made it will over ride the tribunal decision.

    Yeah, she called and basically said, multiple times, that I couldn't move forward and accept this award without withdrawing the other as I couldn't have two claims at the same time. We didn't feel like we were in a position to question it, and it's hard to find anything about it online. In fact I've found it difficult to find much about what happens after a tribunal decision (just the standard wait it out and they'll pay you etc, if you win), let alone if you have another claim ongoing as well! 
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,217 Pioneering
    edited March 23
    It is correct that you cannot have two separate decisions at the same time. A decision on a later claim overrides an earlier one. The tribunal decision is about how you were at the time that claim was made. When you made your later claim I would expect that to have created a ‘closed period’ which would mean that the tribunal decision would only be effective up until the date that a decision on the new claim takes effect. That would certainly be the case had your new claim been decided.

    When I said, in my earlier post, to it isn’t normally possible to withdraw a claim that was badly phrased. A claimant can, of course, withdraw a claim if they wish. What I wouldn’t expect is to be able to withdraw in this situation because I would expect the new claim to be treated as a report of a change of circumstances. However ifyou have been allowed to withdraw the claim you can, of course, apply for a reassessment at any time should you wish to do so. How far has/had the new claim progressed?

    The idea that you could reject the tribunal award is however nonsense. You could, if an error of law had been made, appeal the decision to the upper tribunal but the tribunal decision is binding until such time as it is replaced by a different decision.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,628 Disability Gamechanger
    Interesting. Let’s put a couple of things to bed to begin with. The idea you could lose what a tribunal awarded you is misplaced. Is there’s risk? Yes. What is it exactly? No-one on a forum can tell you. Is it likely to be a high risk? Not really. Think of the quantity of evidence and the level of investigation undertaken by the tribunal. Paper hearings (always a mistake) routinely underestimate likely entitlements so any risk is likely to be very low. Nevertheless one to get advice on. 

    The problem you have here is that the moment you lodged the second claim the tribunal are confined to being able to make an award which must end in December 2020 on the day before your second claim. The first claim becomes for a first period. They went on to make an award to 2023 which is a clear error of law. However, having done that your choices are straightforward but limited to...

    1 - prior to a decision being made on the second claim you can withdraw it. For some benefits (UC) that would still leave the trace of a claim but for PIP it totally wipes the existence of the second claim and validates the otherwise erroneous tribunal decision thus allowing DWP to simply take the decision and implement it. DWP want you to do this as it’s by far the easiest decision for them; saves them deciding a whole other claim and having to wrestle with any inconsistencies which might arise out of say a lower, higher, shorter or longer award on that second claim, and, allows them to paint themselves as the claimants friend. 

    2 - leave the second claim in place and await a decision. This will prevent the tribunal decision ever being implemented but the moment you hear that second decision your tribunal decision is dead and buried unless you pursue it to UT on an error of law. There are time limits on that so you need to make informed decisions on that now. First thing to do there is write and ask for a record of proceedings and statement of reasons within a month of your tribunal decision being notified. Whilst waiting for that you need to go get yourself a very competent rep as this has the potential to get very complicated. 

    How you feel about this will of course depend on the outcome of the second claim. It’s not wise to withdraw a claim without at least understanding whether the outcome could in fact have been better than the tribunal. 

    3 - did your paper hearing know about the second claim? This is crucial. If they knew and went ahead and awarded to 2023 then only the error of law/appeal to UT route is available to you. If on the other hand they did not know of the second claim then you have a far quicker route available to you in that you can apply for a set aside of the decision on the basis that a clearly relevant document was missing. This wipes the tribunal decision; gives you a second bite of the cherry and a chance to have an oral hearing and get the thing sorted properly with a rep.

    I am absolutely simplifying 2 above. You need advice on this and you need it very quickly indeed. 
  • dottie25dottie25 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Interesting. Let’s put a couple of things to bed to begin with. The idea you could lose what a tribunal awarded you is misplaced. Is there’s risk? Yes. What is it exactly? No-one on a forum can tell you. Is it likely to be a high risk? Not really. Think of the quantity of evidence and the level of investigation undertaken by the tribunal. Paper hearings (always a mistake) routinely underestimate likely entitlements so any risk is likely to be very low. Nevertheless one to get advice on. 

    The problem you have here is that the moment you lodged the second claim the tribunal are confined to being able to make an award which must end in December 2020 on the day before your second claim. The first claim becomes for a first period. They went on to make an award to 2023 which is a clear error of law. However, having done that your choices are straightforward but limited to...

    1 - prior to a decision being made on the second claim you can withdraw it. For some benefits (UC) that would still leave the trace of a claim but for PIP it totally wipes the existence of the second claim and validates the otherwise erroneous tribunal decision thus allowing DWP to simply take the decision and implement it. DWP want you to do this as it’s by far the easiest decision for them; saves them deciding a whole other claim and having to wrestle with any inconsistencies which might arise out of say a lower, higher, shorter or longer award on that second claim, and, allows them to paint themselves as the claimants friend. 

    2 - leave the second claim in place and await a decision. This will prevent the tribunal decision ever being implemented but the moment you hear that second decision your tribunal decision is dead and buried unless you pursue it to UT on an error of law. There are time limits on that so you need to make informed decisions on that now. First thing to do there is write and ask for a record of proceedings and statement of reasons within a month of your tribunal decision being notified. Whilst waiting for that you need to go get yourself a very competent rep as this has the potential to get very complicated. 

    How you feel about this will of course depend on the outcome of the second claim. It’s not wise to withdraw a claim without at least understanding whether the outcome could in fact have been better than the tribunal. 

    3 - did your paper hearing know about the second claim? This is crucial. If they knew and went ahead and awarded to 2023 then only the error of law/appeal to UT route is available to you. If on the other hand they did not know of the second claim then you have a far quicker route available to you in that you can apply for a set aside of the decision on the basis that a clearly relevant document was missing. This wipes the tribunal decision; gives you a second bite of the cherry and a chance to have an oral hearing and get the thing sorted properly with a rep.

    I am absolutely simplifying 2 above. You need advice on this and you need it very quickly indeed. 
    Thank you for the detailed explanation, I really do appreciate it! 

    However, although I am somewhat disappointed by the decision I held no expectation of getting any award from the tribunal, so to get enhanced mobility is absolutely fine with me at this time. It will allow me to, hopefully, get a motability car for the next (almost) two years at least, and then depending on how much my conditions progress I will see what happens at the review.

    There was no mention of the second claim in the papers received from the tribunal. I also chose a paper-based appeal at the last minute due to the effects of having Botox injections for my condition the week previously. I could barely stay awake and upright so answering questions was not viable for me in the slightest. As I mentioned before, I didn't really expect to get any award at all and had the second claim there as backup, in case that happened, but I'm happy to take what I've been awarded even though I know I could probably get at least SDL as well, based on my conditions right now.

    I'm actually quite glad I don't have to go through another assessment yet (unless they spring one on me unexpectedly) as the one last year took a real toll on my mental health and caused a few relapses. I'm still not in a good place, the blatant lies across the appeal packet stressed me out, but at least now I only have the paranoia of feeling like someone's watching me, not that they're out to get me. 

    My questions here, however, pertained more to whether the timescale the lady had given me was correct and also whether it was likely they would ask for a statement of reasons for themselves (with a view to possibly lodging an appeal), or if her confirming my bank details and that I wanted to withdraw the claim was their way of saying 'Okay, you can have this, we'll pay you soon," If you know what I mean?

    I fret something chronic about things like this because I'm always worried that things will be taken away or it will be found that they got the wrong person. My mind whirs at the speed of light, it feels like, and I've barely slept because I don't have an idea of what to expect and when. I know that's part of DWP's 'charm', keeping you almost in the loop but not quite, it just plays on my mind horrendously.

    Thanks again for the advice and information. I am happy with what I have for now. If the Botox doesn't do its job (which is seeming like a very real possibility) and I have to explore other treatments I may think about reporting a change of circumstances but right now I'm okay with being possibly under-awarded, it's better than what they wanted to give me in the first place! 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,628 Disability Gamechanger
    Okay, so if the tribunal didn’t know if the second claim then their decision is definitely erroneous and could easily be set aside. However, if you want payment from that erroneous outcome then you’ve no choice but to withdraw your second claim before they make a decision and you then can’t.
  • dottie25dottie25 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    edited March 24
    Okay, so if the tribunal didn’t know if the second claim then their decision is definitely erroneous and could easily be set aside. However, if you want payment from that erroneous outcome then you’ve no choice but to withdraw your second claim before they make a decision and you then can’t.
    Yes, that's the decision I made on Friday. As far as I'm aware the other claim was withdrawn then and they're moving forward with implementing the tribunal decision. That was what the lady discussed on the phone before she confirmed banking information and said that I'd have my back pay within 2 weeks. 

    I really wanted the stress of the appeal and second claim to go away so getting this award was pretty much fine.

    Thanks again. 
  • dottie25dottie25 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    This discussion is already at its end but I wanted to pop in with some good news that as of 2:30am this morning (29/03/2021) I had been paid money owed from last February, giving me some piece of mind that they aren't going to contest it.
    This was a very quick turnaround despite what I've heard, and I'm very impressed, but I know that not all circumstances are like mine. I hope everyone that's waiting on anything from DWP, be it a decision, backpay owed or something else, gets what they're entitled to in good time!
    Now just to wait for my award letter :smile:
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,201 Disability Gamechanger
    @dottie25 great news thanks for sharing 
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Posts: 4,187

    Scope community team

    Good news @dottie25

    Thanks for sharing.
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