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Pip awarded but points for wrong descriptors?

jl11972jl11972 Member Posts: 9 Listener
Good morning all. If anyone could help I would be grateful. I am an appointee for my son in all matters and had to claim pip again after a first tier tribunal success. I received a call from a nurse who is not a specialist in my son's condition and didn't even carry out an assessment just asked questions relating to a claim from over 3 years ago. I realised there was something not right about phone call/assessment as none of the questions relating to pip or descriptors were asked so I contacted dwp to make them aware sof this. The 'report' was sent to DWP and I received a copy. To say I was mortified is an understatement. I was correct in thinking the report was not based on any of the recent paperwork and evidence I supplied. More calls to DWP and I eventually received the decision award and whilst I am happy with it I am concerned that they have overlooked major difficulties my some encounters on a daily basis. His condition is lifelong and the length of award is in question also. My question if anyone can help is do I submit a mandatory reconsideration as it's only parts of the decision I think are overlooked or do I call and explain what I think needs looking at? I'm so confused what to do as I don't want his award to be reduced or stopped but I would like them to be aware of the difficulties they have overlooked as they are extremely relevant and when it comes to review will they say I should of told them now? Sorry for long post and all the questions I'm just looking for advice on the best course of action.


  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 6
    Okay, so one at a time:

    1 - you will not get a HCP who is a specialist in your sons condition. They’re not assessing the condition. They’re assessing the functional ability to perform points scoring tasks reliably and don’t need specialist knowledge to do that. Additionally, if your son had three conditions would you want three specialists? Clearly that’s impractical nonsense.

    2 - the HCP is there to make a recommendation not a decision. It can be based on all manner of evidence or just the call. I’m not hearing anything wrong here. This sounds like they’ve done a paper assessment based on existing documents and were just tidying up loose ends before re-awarding based on what they already knew. Generally, unless you would be arguing for a move from standard to enhanced rates, there’s going to be nothing wrong with that approach at all. 

    3 - if you are happy with the points scored but not the award length then you can challenge on award length only without putting those points at risk. See https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-rights/caselaw/item/whether-pip-appeal-can-be-pursued-where-sole-issue-of-challenge-is-question. Straightforward. Will likely be unchanged at MR but will win inside 10 minutes at an appeal hearing.

    If you want the same points but allocated differently then forget it. Not going to happen. The task for a PIP decision maker is simple. Zero, 8 or 12 points? Once one of those thresholds is reached then the precise make up is simply not relevant. If you were to pursue an MR on this basis you are asking for trouble. A tribunal would take the same view. If he has 8 points and you went in there asking for a different 8 points you will be told in no uncertain terms a tribunal simply don’t have the jurisdiction to do that. Same if you’re arguing that 8 should really be 9, 10 or 11. If the threshold of 12 is not at issue then there’s nothing to challenge. 

    If you’re arguing that 8 should be 12 then that is different but you would need advice on that before moving forward to assess the precise level of risk. 
  • jl11972jl11972 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    @mikehughescq shouldn't points be awarded relating to correct difficulties for descriptors as when it comes to review or renewal these difficulties won't have been acknowledged?
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    In an ideal world I'm sure most people would want their points awarded correctly but there are 3 issues with that.

    1 - claimants rarely know enough about PIP to know what is correct, and,

    2 - it simply doesn't matter. The law is very clear. 8 points = standard rate and 12 points = enhanced. If you think the specific make-up of those is wrong literally no-one will care.

    If you're daft enough to take the matter to a decision maker they will fully engage with the madness and likely remove points without replacing them. Why not? You've literally given them a free hit. The task is to see if you score zero, 8 or 12 and not to see whether you should score 14 points or 24. Tonnes of case law on the point. Once you hit 8 or 12 you stop. End of. 

    3 - PIP is not and never has been about acknowledging every last one of your difficulties. It's solely about deciding whether your issues are enough for you to qualify. If what you're looking for is validation then go see a medical professional and get all your diagnoses confirmed in writing along with a treatment plan. That's not the role of PIP though.  

    4 - when it comes to renewal you do things differently to now and better lay out the case for different points. Nothing more profound to say there. 
  • jl11972jl11972 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    @mikehughescq is there any need to be rude and call me daft? I thought this forum was for help not ridicule. I was trying to gather some advice that's all
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,637 Disability Gamechanger
    The phrase "If you're daft" was not aimed at you. I am sorry if you thought it was. It was a general observation. If you like it could be rephrased as "Anyone who is daft enough to..."

    If I were in your position I would worry less about that and more about the rest of the post. 
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