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Warnings on alcohol

lisathomas50
lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
edited May 5 in Coffee lounge
Should there be warning labels on alcohol  like there is on tablets  and tobacco  and energy drinks  alcohol damages health 
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  • Cher_Inactive
    Cher_Inactive Posts: 4,414

    Scope community team

    Hi @lisathomas50

    This is a great question to debate and I've moved it over to our coffee lounge for our members to come across easier :)

    This BMJ article reveals deaths from alcohol hit a record high in the first 9 months of 2020.  A significant increase speculated as due to higher alcohol consumption during lockdown and a pause in access to treatment services, according to this Independent piece.  So positively, having warnings visible on alcohol packaging could reinforce what people already know (that alcohol carries health risks) but forget/dismiss in moments where the want to drink kicks in.  

    What do you think?
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  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,969 Pioneering
    edited May 5
    I totally agree, if tobacco and medication and any thing that causes addiction carry warnings, then why is alcohol omitted by that, when its addictive, ive lost loved ones because of alcohol addiction. I have a link below from liver trust.
    https://britishlivertrust.org.uk/information-and-support/liver-health-2/love-your-liver/get-involved/get-involved-corporate-wellbeing/
  • leeCal
    leeCal Member Posts: 4,226 Disability Gamechanger
    I think yes, there should be a warning. Alcohol is a poison after all.
  • Caz_Alumni
    Caz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 624 Pioneering
    edited May 5
    This is a big issue for debate. And it's only in recent years we've even started to talk about this a bit more. 

    There's a lot of common sense in what people have already said. But realistically, I suppose the cash benefits, and the culture that we have around social drinking in the UK, have frequently been used as reasons not to take action on this.

    I think that there's definitely been a shift in attitudes of late though. Particularly amongst certain demographics. And in fact, students are quite a good example of how things have changed over the decades. Though that could be down to the price of alcohol and the cost of Uni, as much as anything else.

    Possibly, one option then would be for us to do as much work on reinforcing the positive messages around the short- and long-term benefits of cutting back on consumption, or even stopping altogether. So, continuing the work of the Drinkaware initiative?

    In the longer-term that might have a more lasting effect. So, that's one idea maybe?

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  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,570 Disability Gamechanger
    To me, it makes sense what everyone says on both sides to be honest. 

    My current assignment for my economics is on the economic benefits and costs of imposing taxes or minimum prices on alcohol so I’m interested to follow both sides of this debate :)
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,266 Disability Gamechanger
    My brother in law died 3 years ago at the age of 52 because of his drinking which had been a problem for many years.

    On reflection I don't see a need for warnings, we all know it's bad for us. like smoking we have known for decades that smoking kills and despite all the warnings and repackaging 6.9 million people still smoke.

    At the end of the day you can have too much of the "nanny" state
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  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    Given levels of literacy are now so low in the UK I can’t see that a written warning of any kind would be read let alone acted upon. Far more effective to have restrictions on quantities in the way you have with things like paracetamol. 

    The latter is easy to get around and yet the shops have the tech to enforce it. The point of sale tech combined with the data from your card payment means that shops could limit you to the purchase of say 4 cans or 1 bottle and then prevent you buying the same within say a 20 mile radius in the next 72 hours. 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    That seems like a good idea Mike I think people need to understand the damage alcohol causes and can cause death people think being dependent on alcohol  is drinking all day every day but it isn't 

    Haveing  a glass or couple of glasses of wine every day amounts to the same thing  and can overtime cause damage people think its not true untill they try and miss one day 
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    The latter is easy to get around and yet the shops have the tech to enforce it. The point of sale tech combined with the data from your card payment means that shops could limit you to the purchase of say 4 cans or 1 bottle and then prevent you buying the same within say a 20 mile radius in the next 72 hours. 
    I fully agree with the restrictions. It would make a lot of sense. Although not everyone pays by card and could bounce from shop to shop with cash. 
  • bg844
    bg844 Member Posts: 218 Courageous
    I agree partly. Not going to lie I do enjoy a nice cold bottle of Moretti here and there (I usually drink about 5 of the big bottles every week which isn’t even 1 a day), but I know what alcohol has done to some family members and their lives. It doesn’t just have an impact on them but on everyone. I once lent my aunt some money to pay back debt all driven up by Alcohol. Thank god there’s services in this country for people. I think they shouldn’t limit but on the bottles they should post a nice message asking people to be thoughtful of others and possibly TV adverts. 
  • vikingqueen
    vikingqueen Member Posts: 548 Pioneering
        You could put as many warnings on alcohol as is humanly possible it won't stop an alcoholic from abstaining. Neither could you put restrictions on buying it. An addict will always find a way.
  • bg844
    bg844 Member Posts: 218 Courageous
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    There are interesting  views  what are your ideas on how to cut down on alcohol?  At the moment I am involved in a campaign to cut alcohol down 

    There are children as young as ten drinking and dependent on alcohol 

    Alcohol has an affect on people's lives it can cause debt homelessness,  crime  violence  and eventually death 


  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    MarkN88 said:
    The latter is easy to get around and yet the shops have the tech to enforce it. The point of sale tech combined with the data from your card payment means that shops could limit you to the purchase of say 4 cans or 1 bottle and then prevent you buying the same within say a 20 mile radius in the next 72 hours. 
    I fully agree with the restrictions. It would make a lot of sense. Although not everyone pays by card and could bounce from shop to shop with cash. 
    Pretty much what people who need paracetmol or things like Night Nurse do already. However, making things more difficult will cause a reduction and will still be way more effective than a warning. 

    Have to say I disagree with the idea of alcohol itself being addictive. Addiction is an illness but there's nothing in alcohol which makes it addictive and in much the same way loads of people have the odd social cigarette without falling into crack cocaine like levels of addiction there are plenty of people like me who have a single drink with a meal on the weekends and little else. The issue isn't really addiction here. The issue is availability and cultural acceptance. 
  • vikingqueen
    vikingqueen Member Posts: 548 Pioneering
         I lived with an alcoholic for 16 years and my brother was a drunk, there is a difference believe it or not, neither wanted to cut down, it killed them both eventually. I really don't know the answer to helping people caught up in this illness. Some people know too much is bad for you others don't care. I suppose it has to start by educating children while they are young, but children copy what they see so if the parents are doing it then they probably think it's ok.

       
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    @bg844 it's people's choice to drink and how much they drink and I am mot trying to be rude but in your comment you said you drink 5 large bottles of alcohol  a day that is still alot of alcohol a week  and could possibly be damaging your liver please don't tske offence 

    Do you think there is enough help for people who have a drink problem you mentioned about your family and you said you were glad there was help out there but do you think there is enough 😉
  • vikingqueen
    vikingqueen Member Posts: 548 Pioneering
         bg844 said 5 large bottles a week not a day @lisathomas50
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    @Cher_Scope only just read your comment  there is a record  high in figures what they dint tell you is how many of those are children  I think that labels should be put on alcohol  I also think there should be more advertisements  on how alcohol can damage your health and the pain it can cause 

    I think that there should be more help people turn to drink for lots of reasons and it's the reasons they drink that they need help with and if people had the sort of help they need if they had the urge to drink they had help at the end of the phone and if need be people to come out 

    Drs and police can have orders put on people to stop them buying alcohol In there local area which sometimes works but I think if more things were put in place to help people  and I think there should be stronger laws put in for people who supply children with alcohol 

    As you said  people drinking has risen since the pandemic some are new drinkers 

    Alot of people I know have died from the damage of alcohol  some as young as 12 some people go beyond help once the stomach starts extending when your drinking because the liver isn't working properly anymore and their skin goes yellow and they are in constant pain 

    People are told that the next drink could be their last one they are offered liver transplants as long as they have help and support to stop drinking and that they don't drink after they have a new liver its not only the liver though it can be the kidneys that give up but either are life threatening 

    Some people think that alcoholics shouldn't have transplants because they have done it to there self  but again if thete were more dupirt and they could get to the root of why they drink to the pont of potential damage to their self that alot of it could be slowed down 

    As I have said on this thread  been an alcoholic isn't about drinking until your on the floor its about being dependent on alcohol  haveing one or two drinks a day I know alot of women come home from work and have a glass of wine  which a friend of mine used to do she said she could go without so I picked her up from work and took her out within three hours she said she didn't feel right that her stomach was hurting her hands were shaking and she wanted a glass of wine 

    We went to the pub and she had a small glass of wine which stopped all the symptoms she was haveing it scared her and she went for help she no longer drinks but it took a whilst 

    The AA are over whelmed they need more help groups they need more sponsors to be there on the end of the phone to come and see them when they have the urge I am involved in a campaign formed by my friend and two other women my friend helped 

    There should be more campaigns to get more help put in place  

    I am an alcoholic who hasn't had a drink since the age of 18  I drank from the age of 16 I was found face down in a puddle of water when I collapsed I was helped by a passer by who phoned an ambulance 

    Whilst at the hospital I was also found to be pregnant I was 6months didn't know who the father was I stopped drinking they had to wean me off because my baby was also dependent on alcohol thankfully we both came through it 

  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike I disagree alcohol is in addiction  the same as drugs when you try and stop they have the same affects shaking vomiting cramps and pain  if you have a drink it all stops so yes it's an addiction your body is dependent on alcohol 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    @vikingqueen it's still over the level to cause damage 
  • vikingqueen
    vikingqueen Member Posts: 548 Pioneering
         Didn't say it wasn't, just correcting you.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    @vikingqueen sorry I see where you think I was wrong I meant a day over five days that they drink 
  • Caz_Alumni
    Caz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 624 Pioneering
    This is a really important thread and it raises a number of issues. To me, there's no easy solution and there's no single right way to try and tackle the problems that drinking can cause. I suppose it depends on whether we view the problem as being one of individual responsibility, or collective social responsibility, or indeed both. 

    Just doing a bit of online reading, I did come across a website, Alcohol Change UK, with links to some interesting research that's been carried out recently and which touches on some of the points that people have already made. 

    There's a report on alcohol labelling, called Drinking in the Dark, and also a report on the Office for National Statistics' recent figures on alcohol-specific deaths. Both of which make sobering reading. And that's not a pun. 

    Also, given the nature of the conversation, I did just want to add in a link to the NHS webiste on Alcohol Support, just in case anybody is concerned that they might be experiencing an issue around alcohol. If you are at all worried about this issue, then please do seek some support. 

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  • Pattaylor89
    Pattaylor89 Member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi new to the Community. If you live in the Hull area and are experiencing a problem with Alcohol or know someone who is, there is an Organisation called Renew. It helps Alcoholics and Drug Addicts as well their family if they feel in need of it. I know this because my partner is what is termed as a Functioning Alcoholic. I go to Renew for Support and it really helps me. As for warnings I really don't think they would take any notice. I don't know what the answer is. But I do know that unless they want to stop and have the willpower to do it. Then no amount of warnings or restrictions will stop them. I also don't think most people who aren't dependant would heed the warnings. Most would think it won't happen to me, then before they know it's got a hold of them. 
  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Member Posts: 18 Connected
    Evening all.

    As an alcoholic now in recovery (I attend AA meetings, but this isn’t for everyone, and you have to want to be sober for it to work, which some people simply don’t want) I find this thread extremely interesting.

    I’m not sure that warning labels would make any difference to the people who are drinking in a way which is damaging to them - I know when I was drinking (and smoking) I wouldn’t have cared at all what the bottle or can said.

    As for limiting the amount people can buy through some tech system, I think this would be detrimental to alcoholics who have yet to find or are unable or not interested in getting sober. I appreciate it’s a hideous disease (my mother was also and alcoholic, and died 11 years ago from the illness) but if you try and stop and alcoholic from drinking as much as they physically need it can lead to DTs and death.

    I think, seeing the recent reports, that lockdown has caused a lot of people to drink during what has been the biggest and most insane mental upset this country has seen in a few generations. I would hope, as people begin to socialise normally again, this will settle back down. 

    For those people who are not alcoholics, I would hope the information about the dangerous of heavy drinking could be made more well known, perhaps with ad campaigns, which, in my opinion, should replace the glamourised adverts we currently have displaying alcohol as being a classy and fun thing to do. I also feel that “multi buy” offers from super markets are potentially damaging, as again it portrays that this is a normal amount of alcohol to buy, not paying attention to units etc - which again is not an easy system to understand. 

    I believe attitudes will change, as they have with smoking. 

    Anyway! Thanks for the interesting insight. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike I disagree alcohol is in addiction  the same as drugs when you try and stop they have the same affects shaking vomiting cramps and pain  if you have a drink it all stops so yes it's an addiction your body is dependent on alcohol 
    So if alcohol is addictive how do you explain people like me and my mates who drink a single drink of an evening once or twice a week; have months with no alcohol but equally can go out on a massive pub crawl?

    You’re welcome to disagree Lisa but alcohol is definitely not addictive. There can be a psychological addiction but that person would be an addict no matter what their product of choice. Some people have reactions to certain chemicals within alcohol but only above a certain level and that’s what drives addiction. Not the alcohol itself. Same with smoking. If either were genuinely addictive in and of themselves then one drink or puff is all it would take and we all know that simply never happens.
  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Member Posts: 18 Connected
    @mikehughescq

    I find your point interesting, and as a recovered/recovering alcoholic I agree with you! 

    My brain can get addicted to anything - alcohol, food, shopping, video games - it’s not the substance, but what it does in that it makes me ‘feel better’ - and I know this is true with many addicts and alcoholics and it’s very common to see one addiction replace another, until we learn how to manage this behaviour. 
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,969 Pioneering
    I can see all your points, that can be said for certain medication too, but my question is why do these carry warnings and with tobacco gruesome pictures? If addiction only effects certain people? Also why is alcohol omitted these same warnings on bottles etc? When all 3 ive mentioned can cause ill effect. 
  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Member Posts: 18 Connected
    @Sandy_123

    Not a question I know the answer to I’m afraid, but it’s definitely an interesting one to ponder. I suppose it’s quite hard to put a picture of alcoholism on a bottle, and alcohol is a very culturally acceptable thing, where as smoking for example has become a cultural no no. 

    Things may change in the future. 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike we will have to agree to disagree 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    @Dusty_Hammer I am also a recovering alcohol I have been dry since age of 18 I was an alcoholic  fom 16 to 18 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    They say though that your always going to be a alcoholic  but your just not drinking  I havent wanted a drink I stopped smoking 12 years ago but I sometimes when I am realy stressed out I feel like a cigarette I just put a lolly in my mouth ha ha I wouldn't start smoking again now my lungs wouldn't take it after haveing corona virus 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    I have a question  if you were in a job where you sold alcohol and a person had alcohol but you knew this person was drunk would you sell it to them ??
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    Sandy_123 said:
    I can see all your points, that can be said for certain medication too, but my question is why do these carry warnings and with tobacco gruesome pictures? If addiction only effects certain people? Also why is alcohol omitted these same warnings on bottles etc? When all 3 ive mentioned can cause ill effect. 
    Again, this is a misconception. The warnings on medication and cigarettes are not generally about addiction. They are about dude effects and long term consequences. You will do well to find warnings on many medicines about addiction because those things are not addictive. Withdrawal can be difficult and needs to be managed but that’s not the same as addiction. It’s an issue many people confuse.
    Mike we will have to agree to disagree 
    I’m happy to see different opinions but not where something is factual. It is a medical fact that neither nicotine nor alcohol are addictive. If they were then it would happen after one hit and if it were about hitting a specific level of usage then we’d all have a problem at that level and warnings would specify avoidance of that level. Addiction is something else completely.
  • Ami2301
    Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,923 Disability Gamechanger
    I have a question  if you were in a job where you sold alcohol and a person had alcohol but you knew this person was drunk would you sell it to them ??
    When I was a cashier, if a customer was clearly drunk then we would refuse the sale.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,798 Pioneering
    Ami2301 said:
    I have a question  if you were in a job where you sold alcohol and a person had alcohol but you knew this person was drunk would you sell it to them ??
    When I was a cashier, if a customer was clearly drunk then we would refuse the sale.
    Snap. I worked as a team leader than  department manager in one of the big supermarkets several years ago and we would refuse the sale. 
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,969 Pioneering
    edited May 8
    Again, this is a misconception. The warnings on medication and cigarettes are not generally about addiction. They are about dude effects and long term consequences. You will do well to find warnings on many medicines about addiction because those things are not addictive. Withdrawal can be difficult and needs to be managed but that’s not the same as addiction. It’s an issue many people  confuse..... @mikehughescq
    (Q) So if it's about side effects and long term consequences, then why still is alcohol omitted? As it causes these said things with health 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    Sandy_123 said:

    (Q) So if it's about side effects and long term consequences, then why still is alcohol omitted? As it causes these said things with health 
    Probably because the side effects of medication are regardless of usage level. Same can’t be said of alcohol. Your level of usage is what will dictate the side effects and long term impact. 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    A useful point being made which references in passing how disbelief was sewn about issues smoking. Similar issues with the alcohol industry. 

  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike I read the thread but it's not a  conspiracy theory it's real and happening to people 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    alcohol is addictive  so its an addiction 
  • Dusty_Hammer
    Dusty_Hammer Member Posts: 18 Connected
    A useful point being made which references in passing how disbelief was sewn about issues smoking. Similar issues with the alcohol industry. 

    I actually have a copy of the Times newspaper from 9th July 1956 which has an article in saying scientists have found NO LINK between smoking and cancer - so often the facts an entire industry are based on can be wrong, and can be changed. 
    I think the damaged cause by alcohol in excess, while it can be very physical (failing liver, muscle wasting, DTs etc) - the primary “side effect” caused by excess drinking is a cultural and family one - a mental one if you will - that impacts other people on a greater level to the over drinker/alcoholic (I say this from my own perspective only - although my active alcoholism was mentally damaging to me, it was much much worse for those around me) - the same went for my mother’s alcoholism. She was, without a shadow of a doubt, a broken women, but it absolutely destroyed me as a small child - and THEN the physical effects killed her, only by the time I was 20. 

    It’s hard to see alcoholism when it doesn’t directly effect you or your family - whereas the cancer caused by smoking was happening to nearly ALL smokers, with out prejudice, so it couldn’t be ignored anymore. 

    Alcoholism can be ignored to some degree, because it’s definitely not the normal behaviour regarding alcohol consumption 
  • spankie76
    spankie76 Member Posts: 30 Connected
    Mmmm I had to think hard about this one. As someone who has been addicted to both alcohol and various drug in the past, no amount of labeling would stop me as it made me feel part of something. 

    I think the main issue is how we as a people treat everything now a days. If you look at some of the isolated tribes, they all use drugs and alcohol but its the way they use it that makes the difference. There are rituals and meaning attached to taking things like that which we don't have any more.

    I know this is quite simplified and there's more involved (the industry itself, taxes, social issues). They understood the difference between use and abuse in all aspects of life.

    This is just my opinion though and there is more I could say but im a talker more than a texter (is that a word?). 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    Lisa I’m struggling here. You’ve posted something which demonstrates irrefutably that alcohol itself is not addictive but that the social circumstances around it’s consumption may create the circumstances where, for some people, an addiction develops. I don’t know what you think it says but that’s what it actually says.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,451 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 9
    Struggling to see any evidence that was written by scientists; has been peer reviewed or replicated. It also rather brilliantly points out that 80% of people are exposed to alcohol but only 30% develop use issues i.e. alcohol itself is not addictive. It’s also research done on animals not humans.
  • Ross_Scope
    Ross_Scope Posts: 4,912

    Scope community team

    I've enjoyed reading and following along on this thread, there have been so many interesting points of view, and I thank those of you who have openly and honestly shared your personal experience on the subject, I hope that you all have received, or are receiving, the necessary support to overcome any struggle you have had relating to alcohol.

    Back to the original question, I would be in favour of having warnings on alcohol bottles. While there is clearly a debate over whether or not it's actually addictive, I think that the profound impact it can have on individuals and those around them would justify it. 

    I have just read this article from Alcohol Change UK which I found very interesting. It made me consider the many variables that can be going on in a person's life around the time that they consume alcohol, and the reasons for which they can become dependant, or reliant, on it.

    Of course, each situation will be unique, and I think it's important to always consider the individuals involved and whether they would consider themselves to be addicted or not. From my experience addiction, dependency, reliance (whatever you want to call it) can be a sliding scale, meaning that the person involved isn't fully dependant or not dependent at all, it can fluctuate based on certain events which alter a person's mood.

    As mentioned, that's just based on my own thoughts and personal experience with loved ones. The scientific angle is certainly an interesting one, and I'm happy for the conversation to carry on (providing you have more to say of course) if everybody remains respectful of one another's opinions on the topic. It can be a sensitive issue and I think it should be approached with consideration and empathy.
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  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,584 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Ross_Scope thank you  I started the thread as myself and zany have had a few private discussions  about it  we just wanted people's opinions our suggestion was to put labels on alcohol  but it has also brought out some other good suggestions 

    Such as instead of showing the glamour of alcohol but the health impact alcohol has 

    Mike also had a good suggestion  about restricting alcohol  it was a good idea and from that it would be easier if the government put limits on how much alcohol a person can buy  to make it harder to buy alcohol  pubs can control how much some one drinks but only to the point where the person is falling down drunk 

    I think there should be more education on the damage alcohol does  I have recently started working in a petrol station that sell alcohol we are  24 rs  I have to ask for identification if they dint look old enough 

    I am shocked at the amount of spirits this age group between 18 and 24 drink  in one night I sold 12 bottles of vodka 16 bottles of gin 28 crates of Stella 12 bottles of wine  we get print outs of what we sell  I was quite shocked  thats between the hours of 10pm and 6am I know its not alot on the bigger scale but if they have identification I cant refuse to sell and it saddens me to see as young as 18 drinking  spirits we also sell the odd bottle of jack Daniels 

    I personally think the age should be moved to 21 for both alcohol and cigarettes what fo there think 

    The monster drink you have to show identification  if they don't look old enough  or any type if drink like that 
  • bekindalways
    bekindalways Member Posts: 69 Courageous
    Just came across this thread whilst looking through the Coffee Lounge.  I'm all for some method to encourage people to cut down on their drinking. However, I wouldn't be too chuffed if I was in a nice restaurant, ordering a nice meal and a nice bottle of Casillero del Diablo and when the wine comes, it's plastered like my dear friends cigarette packet with horrific visuals of a diseased liver. Lol. In Scotland we have a 50p per unit. It can be quite a dramatic change in the amount we pay for alcohol as opposed to England. I'm not overly sure if it's been effective or not, but I certainly support more stringent controls of alcohol sales. 

    It's just an absolute minefield when trying to find out what works and what doesn't. With many people, just even trying to educate them to temper their drinking habits, would invoke all manner of a backlash. It was a very good question to pose though and one which I sadly don't think will ever be remedied totally. Best wishes all. Xxxxx

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