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PIP awarded at conciderably Low Rate

TellMell Community member Posts: 17 Listener
edited May 2021 in PIP, DLA, and AA

OK, This is a long story so im not going to go through it all but i will instead jump right to the point.

A very good friend of mine who is Severely Dyslexic & Schizophrenic and DIsabled (Clawed Right Hand - And a Leg that swells to 3 times its size when he does any movement Due to Blood Circulation Issues in his leg) Add that to the Depressive states he goes through because of his Schizophrania and Panic attacks that Increase his Depression to near sucicidal Levels. Is currently Medicated for these Issues, Cannot Live independently because he cannot support himself correctly,

Like Cooking Cleaning , Clothing himself ect because of his Hand and Mobility issues. Cannot Read or write (AT ALL) went to a special needs school from the age of 7 for his Severe Behavioural issues and Dyslexia, Left school to be abandoned by the System and eventually became A reclusive Loaner at home and Fell into Severe Depression and severe schizophrania. Alolng with that a plethora of aother issues i wont go into here.

Ok so He ON HIS OWN did nothing to address his problems or Benefits and Went on for Years on receiving Jobseekers , until he was Helped by a support group that was only given to him after he Had a Severe breakdown and the police where called where they arrested him and has a Pychiatrist Talk to him in the police station, From there he was provided some help and he eventually got onto the Support group and taken off Jobseekers This was about 15 years ago.

He as expected did nothing more to address his situation and continued to claim Support group ESA as his Mental Health and Disabilitys Got worse, Until his mother introduced myself to him, Where i immediatly Took control of his situation and became his Unpaid Carer for several years. I managed to get him an award of PIP (Basic rate) we didnt appeal it, Allthough i knew he deserved what he was entitled..

I claimed carers for him and at my own Expense and time became his full time carer, I cooked cleaned and Entertained him for Several Years, I sorted his flat out for him and got it clean again, bought him new clothes and got him the help he needed to at least live a confortable life with somebody around him to provide him the help he needed.

Unfortunatly i myself have Kidney problems and they where progressivly getting worse. i eventually could no longer look after my friend like i used to, So i introduced a my sister to him so she could help with his Needs. She has been a life saver in that if it where not for her, my friend would be Completely unable to look after himself in his current situation and mental health.

So everything was great and He was receiving the care and benefits he required to help him at least live a stable life.

Then came the BombShell... As you expected, DWP took his award from him and awarded him a Thoughtfull 0 points.

So we had to go through an appeal with him, at this point his long lost Brother whome is Studying Law (and other things) came back into his life and helped with the Appeal. We got all his Doctors notes from childhood proving the severity of the situation.

Of Course DWP Empathetically Denied his Appeal, So we took it to court. Where myself and his brother Represented him.

And would you believe it A COURT OF LAW (Awarded him Full PIP and Low Rate Mobility) a large increase from The origional DWP award.

This helped my friend conciderably more, And his brother took over his care (my sister also helped out from time to time) but his brother became custodian for him and Took him out in the car, Took him to eat, His girlfriend cleaned his clothes and the flat ect. They where there for him at a moments notice... and this helped My friend to Gain alot more confidence and he also managed to escape the clutches of depression, Allthough he still had random panic attacks that brought him back into his depressions.

Anyway. so My friend was improving and seemed to be Happier, no he couldnt clean and cook for himself, no he couldnt read or write, no he couldnt go out aloane without having panic attacks or being attacked by the local thugs who have allways bullied him. But he could go out in the car for a mcdonalds ect with his brother and have some company and reassurance. So life moved on.

2 years passed and the Award The Courts had made Came to an End. So it was time to Again go through the chances of loosing his benefits completely again and probly having to go through appeal.

My friends brother could not attend the Telephone interview, which may have something to do with the award, as my friend had to do the talking and my friend knows nothing of the system or how it works. But HE TOLD THEM THE TRUTH, and thats all he needed to tell THE COURTS.

Well Longest ever story short. Hes been Awarded Lowest Rate PIP and No mobility.

Im not sure what to do, im waiting to hear from his brother whome will obviously look into this from a legal perspective and will more than likley want to take it to court and defend his brother again.

But im very worried, i hear they can overturn the benefits completely.

Im at a loss of what to do, im in no position myself to do alot for him, nowadays i ask my sister to go round if his brothers not available. But i am going to do what i can from my laptop and look into the options we have,

Which is why i am here.

What do we do, Should we just accept the Low Award, even though My friend BY COURT OF LAW was awarded what he really is entitled.

It seems the me that the DWP are not interested in helping anybody really, they just want to get as many people off the system as they can, even if people like my friend suffer the consiquences.

At this rate, my friend will end up with no PIP as the systematic denial of benefits the DWP are going through will eventually come round to my friend.

Im thinking we should be appealing this and asking for a Long term Award, Even if it is the Lowest they can Allow themselves to hand over at the cost of no Bonus for removing sum1 off benefits.

Im here for advice, if anybody has anything to add please let me know.

We (Me and his nrother) will also be making a claim for SDP (He is on ESA) does anybody have any advice here.

I really hope sombody can offer advice, because my friend really needs it.. The system is Chipping away at him All the time, and it wont be long , and they will take his life from him.

thank you for any advice.



  • melissahicking2019
    melissahicking2019 Community member Posts: 131 Courageous
    edited May 2021
    sorry I disagree A pip tribunal is upheld as LAW in a court of law by a judge of the LAW and only Lawfull decisions can be made accordingly to the Law. 

    And the tribunal was held at Derbyshire magistrate court.

    I fail to see how that’s not a court of LAW

    furthermore there was no mention of improvements that should effect the daily living award. Nothing changed other than his depression lifted because he had round the clock help and care. A clawed hand cannot improve. Dyslexia  did not improve neither did his schizophrenia , he just seemed happier as he had more attention to his needs.

    also it was requested that a long term award be made this time . However that was not concidered.
  • melissahicking2019
    melissahicking2019 Community member Posts: 131 Courageous
    edited May 2021
    Ok so no appeal if there’s an ERROR OF LAW. Sorry but no matter what you try to tell me. It’s a court of LAW and lawfull decisions are made by judges who know the LAW and their decisions are guided by and fulfilled within the LAW or appeals can be made against an ERROR OF LAW. It’s a court of LAW and any PIP APPEAL that goes to COURT is delbt with in accordance to the LAW.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    seems to me that tribunals and courts are both legal entities making decisions based on the law, that doesn't make a tribunal a court. A tribunal is an inquisitorial process in which the tribunal seeks information that will inform it's decision. Court hearings are an adversarial process in which two parties present their cases and the judge (or judges) make a decision based on what they have heard. The judge in court is much less likely to intervene.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • melissahicking2019
    melissahicking2019 Community member Posts: 131 Courageous
    Ok , well thank you for your help. Nice to speak with you.
  • Ross_Alumni
    Ross_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,652 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @TellMell

    Welcome to the community, I hope you're well.

    Have you sought professional representation for your friend? I'm not saying the representation he has been provided was bad, I'm just curious as to whether you have considered going down that route? 

    I'm concerned to read about your friend's suicidal thoughts, is that something he still experiences or is that in the past?

    Also, on a general note, what support does he receive at the minute with his daily tasks, mobility and mental health? Has he ever had a needs assessment from the local authority?

    I am sorry to hear about what you've all been through, it seems as though it's been a long process of ups and downs. I do hope that things go well for you though with any prospective appeal.
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  • TellMell
    TellMell Community member Posts: 17 Listener
    edited May 2021
    The support he receives is very limited at present, because his brother has started a new job and is studying for his Degree ect, I myself can no longer visit him on a daily basis to help with the cleaning and entertainment, My sister has also started a new job, and So between the 3 of us, we are doing what we can to visit him and take him to the chemist and the odd shopping trip for him , or out somewhere, However without his PIP to fund all of this he will loose out on alot of the oppertunitys that PIP afforded him.

    My friends suicidal thoughts seems to be motivated by his panic attacks, Whilst he has support and Company his Depression lifts and this decreases his panic attacks, However Once he has a Panic attack, he again falls into a depression, which as led to him feeling suicidal on a few occassions.. However he remains very reluctant to tell people about this, especially people in authority as he knows all to well what happens when he opens up to people.. They threaten his freedom, and as he puts it, They would just want to lock him away and Dope him up on Medicines. So undfortunatly , getting him to communicate with specialists and proffesionals is very difficult, he will not fully explain his conditions to myself nor his brother, but he does have moments where he will spill the beans, like when we had to discuss how his disability effects him for the PIP assessment, only then did he open up and explain in details how his life is upset by his schizophrania and depression / panic attacks... 

    For a long time we where all under the conclusion that his illness was motivated by drug use, however since he was awarded PIP his brother, myself and my sister managed to spend enough time with him to help him get off self medications and this has helped him in alot of ways, unfortunatly it has not helped with his Schizophrania as now he has to learn to come to terms with his illnesses, and this in turn has effected him greatly and for the worse as he does not know how to deal with his illness other than to self medicate, which he is no longer doing... so our next route is to again get him Prescribed Meds, But this is another area my friend avoids as the meds effect him in ways he dislikes, so as i say, we and him have to find a way to deal with his current problems.

    And No we have not yet sought professional advice for his PIP as it is too early to make any decisions just yet, We where thinking of going to citizens advice but they awarded him the PIP but unfortunatly at a lower rate, so now we are in a bit of a difficult decision.

    My friend would be quite happy with the award as he does not understand the gravity of the situation. Wheras myself (and his brother) are of the opinion that DWP / CAPITA cannot manmage to provide an accurate assessment nor can they award the correct rate. wheras the tribunal managed to Quickly come to the correct conclusion,

    I just wonder why a Tribunal Panel seem to come to the correct decision, whereas DWP never do, not only in my friends case , but many others.

    It just seems as if the DWP/CAPITA system is more focused on Denying benefits rather than actually helping people... 

    At the moment, i am yet to discuss this matter with my friend and his brother, From there we will be deciding what to do.

    His brother represented him very well in court and obtained evidence from childhood that was undeniable proof of my friends disabilitys since childhood, and so this helped in the decision made by the tribunal panal, So im hoping to have his brother onboard again to again Fight in his brothers corner.

    As for Professional Advice, Well Capita are Proffesionals, And so are the DWP, yet they cannot come to the correct conclusion.. So i am very dubious as to seeking "Proffesional Advice".

    But it will be concidered , We may goto Citizens advice for any Advice we cannot Manage to find ourselves.

    In the meantime i guess our only option is to go the MR route and then onto Court again if need be.

    However i wouldnt want to push this any further if my friends award could be taken away from him.

    Even a Lower Rate is better than Leaving him to struggle on 7.50 a day living expenses. Allthough not the award he or anybody else in his position deserves we will concider wether it is worth challanging the DWP decision. 

  • TellMell
    TellMell Community member Posts: 17 Listener
    edited May 2021
    I googled and found this.

    The tribunal that heard your PIP appeal is entitled to make what decision it wants, but it must arrive at that decision in a "LAWFULL MANOR" It cannot ignore the law or case law from the Upper Tribunal or higher courts, where it is relevant to your appeal.

    judicial advice and guidance We're responsible for ... Pension Credit Personal Independence Payment Sure Start Maternity Grant tax credits ... which settles legal disputes and is structured around particular areas of "THE LAW"

  • TellMell
    TellMell Community member Posts: 17 Listener
    edited May 2021
    And as for the decisions DWP and CAPITA are making , not only in my friends case but the MAJORITY OF CASES.

    Every Detail of his illness Disability and the way it effects his daily living was Explained and backed up with medical Evidence, in application , and in the telephone interview.

    He was not alone when he spoke with CAPITA and he provided them the truthfull facts and so did his representitive. 

    He was awareded Points Because of his dyslexia in Managing Budgeting and daily living expoenses ect.

    Yet He was awarded 0 points for Mobility.

    Yet He is Admittedly completely Dyslexic and cannot read a sign, nor follow a route , nor read a map, or a phone.

    He suffers with his scizophrania more when he does go out and especially around peoplle , that along with a plethora of other issues that deny him the ability to leave his own home without it causing him harm or distress and putting him danger.

    His leg swells 3 times the size of the other after walking for 5 minutes and this means he cannot travel anywhere without being taken in a car.

    He is medicated and Doped up 90% of the time, making it unsafe for him to be near roads and on the street without supervision.

    Yet he was awarded 0 points.

    The DWP & CAPITA , Where told in detail , during the assessmentr and in application and Evidence was provided (Including The same Historic evidence that was used in a "COURT OF LAW") and More recent evidence confirming No changes since that award.

    Yet the DWP & CAPITA  award 0 point's

    Im sorry but thats just Deliberate and misleading and a complete ignorence of the facts just to lower the rate of a Disabled persons PIP Award.

    And its Very Common for the DWP & CAPITA to do this.

    You cant blame this on the Applicant, especially when they are dyslexic & disabled.

    Nor can you blame anybody whome helped in the application when they provided Perfectly good evidence and a case of reason.

    even if a Proffesional had helped in this case. The same Conclusion would of been made by the DWP and CAPITA. 0 points for mobility and other KEY areas of the application....

    What grates on me is , WHY.

    Why are the DWP not focused on actually getting people onto benefits and instead are driven and focused to getting people off benefits. Why are they Awarded Bonuses for Hitting a target number of Denial cases.

    Why are so many people who are GENUINLY disabled and suffering everyday in thier daily living , being awarded 0 points and a denial of benefits, only to goto appeal at COURT and be awarded the deserving Benefit after  a Court of Law addresses the Evidence Professionally and accurately and according to the LAW.

    Why when DWP & CAPITA "HAVE ALL THE EVIDENCE THEY NEED" to make an accurate decision, and are supposed to be PROFESSOINALs donnot have any intention of actually helping disabled people get onto benefits.

    Why have they been exposed on the News and by watchdog for their "Get them off benefits at all costs Approach and we will award you bonuses"

    Why , Why , Why is all i keep asking myself.

    Why are so many people being Robbed of thier LIfes by this corrupt system.

    Why do they just choose to ignore the evidence , the Application, the Assessment details and the applicants own verbal addmissions along with representative.

    and award 0 points for mobility. and 0 points in other KEY areas where evidence was provided and it is beyond doubt that the disability if effecting daily living.

    And thats not the only Deliberate ignorance of Evidence and a Denial of the Facts.

    I wont go into it, as its pointless to do so here, And i think iv made my point.

    You can try to argue on behalf of the DWP & CAPITA as much as you like.

    i think you will find myself and MILLIONS of other people all agree here.

  • TellMell
    TellMell Community member Posts: 17 Listener
    edited May 2021
    Mike , i get the impression you must work for the DWP... Your just as ignorant of the facts as them and dont listen to what im saying.

    Try living on the other side of the phone for a day. ;)****

    Yes, there attitude towards "Claiments" reveals thier true colors , and hidden agenda mike.

    And as it happens, i have witnessed the effects of thier wrongfull decisions.

    And where credit is due, i have also seen the effects of the right award. unfortunatly in 5 applications it never came from the DWP or CAPITA.

    They where made by THE LAW to award the right benefits. (includes other cases)

    i do apologise if i come across all 1 sided, but iv lived with the effects of the DWP.

    It makes or takes LIVES.

  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    TellMell said:
    Mike , i get the impression you must work for the DWP... 
    your impression is wrong. Mike spends his working days supporting people to claim benefits and challenging decisions made by DWP. That’s why he is so knowledgeable about the processes involved.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Cher_Alumni
    Cher_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,740 Disability Gamechanger
    @TellMell I'm sorry the initial PIP decision didn't go as anticipated for your friend. As already suggested, I'd recommend visiting Advice Local to access free independent welfare advice close to where you live, for if your friend chooses to pursue a Mandatory Reconsideration (MR).

    I'll also be emailing you soon to explore what we might be able to do at Scope to help with your friend's situation.

    The topic of PIP can be incredibly emotive for those who have previously struggled with the process and I do understand your upset. However, I believe our members were trying to best direct you towards garnering a successful outcome by outlining how you could strengthen your friend's case. With that in mind, I'd like to remind you of our community house rules and importantly, the need to ensure comments remain on-topic rather than personally attacking others. Such content is not allowed so please bear this in mind when constructing future posts.

    This thread will now be closed as to prevent the discussion from continuing along the same lines.
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