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Possible to get successful decision without sending in a diary?

LeeA380LeeA380 Member Posts: 47 Connected
edited June 27 in PIP, DLA and AA
When I made my application for PIP and even in the MR I did not think of including a 7 day diary of my movements/troubles.

Does this kind of thing enhance the chances of success?

I was only expecting to be given points on toilet/shower/preparing food/dressing and I was given 2 points for each of them EXCEPT the latter. This is why I did not get enough points for standard daily living.


  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,535 Disability Gamechanger
    I have never sent a diary for either PIP (awarded twice) or ESA (awarded once), some people do and it can never be a bad thing.
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi there 

    Same here I have never sent a diary but it is a good thing to do 

    Could you submit one now as extra evidence to your Mr before decision is made 
  • LeeA380LeeA380 Member Posts: 47 Connected
    janer1967 said:
    Hi there 

    Same here I have never sent a diary but it is a good thing to do 

    Could you submit one now as extra evidence to your Mr before decision is made 
    I dont know how close to a decision it is now. This will be the 5th week since the MR has been queued (i was told maybe 8 weeks).
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    I sent one but not quite a week because they are so long I only sent 3 days worth but I haven't heard anything back yet! So I will let you know if I'm lucky enough to hear anything before you do? I'm not sure if with a MR if it all gets explained and broken down points wise like in an original decision letter? Gawd knows what happens 🤦🏻‍♀️😂😊 but I was told the diary can't hurt so nobody actually said I should send it? Also I sent in further information a few weeks back now and they took it but I do think as apparently they have to take it all into consideration I worry it may make it all take longer? That's my tuppence worth probably no help whatsoever sorry if that's the case! Good luck and hope you get the right decision ASAP 😊👍
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,255 Pioneering
    Emilyb81 said:..I'm not sure if with a MR if it all gets explained and broken down points wise like in an original decision letter? ..
    The MR Notice is effectively a new decision letter.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,231 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @LeeA380 - I did send an 8 day diary in (I overshot the week!) but this was before I joined Scope, & because I didn't have much evidence. I think it's perhaps useful to keep a diary, even if you don't send it in, because sometimes you forget some of the things you've learnt to manage, which are in fact difficulties. Whether it helped or not of course I don't know. :)
    With a MR all the evidence is just looked at again by another decision maker, Emily. You don't have to send in anything extra. However if you have something more that may add relevant evidence, then yes, send it in. Good luck to you both. :)
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    Thankyou  @chiarieds.... They didn't have anything  because I wasn't ever told to fill form in or sent one?
    I was just given a telephone assessment because I was due reassessment? And I believe that was how/why I got a no 2 weeks later and lost awards I previously had even though my situation had got much worse than when I first applied years ago? So when I first did the MR I hadn't been on here yet and did a long letter explaining how their decision had affected me and how shocked I was and was focused on wrong things :disappointed: and some letters from people that have helped me with certain tasks over the years... it was only after coming onto scope I was advised about what an MR actually should be? So then a few weeks later I sent in what would of been in the form people get and why I didn't agree with decisions, and copies of diary entries for a few days showing how I am day to day because the assessment was very unhelpful they had not given any of the information I had told her and she basically said she decided I could do all the things I said I cant? Anyhoo that's why I sent it all but I am worried the information I sent late will now obviously have to be read too and it was already taking a while?! But it's definitely something they needed! I mean the reasons I didn't agree and examples etc not so much the diary entries they were just something I thought may show how things get for me on average days? 
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    Oh good thanks @calcotti 👍😊
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,231 Disability Gamechanger
    Think I'd rather it took 2-3 weeks longer, Emily, if that's the case (& it's entirely possible, from what other members have said, that an MR just takes quite a while unfortunately these days), yet got the right result. This bearing in mind that it would take even longer if then having to appeal.
    It sounds wise to send more info in from what you've experienced tho (no review form).  :)
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,646 Disability Gamechanger
    edited June 27
    It is to some extent accepted in WR circles as a good thing to do a diary or at least to recommend that others do. The evidence base for the effectiveness is simply unproven. I do think it’s a good idea for a proportion of people to keep one to help them identify stuff they don’t ordinarily think about but in terms of submitting one as part of a PIP 2/AR 1 my personal view is that it’s largely an inefficient waste of time. 

    I say this simply because the issues you’re trying to get across for PIP are primarily around your ability to perform each of 12 activities reliably or not. A diary isn’t really going to say much about whether you’re doing stuff in a reasonable time and unless you explicitly address it then it’s not going to say anything about the other 3 elements of reliability either. Far better to use a diary as a prompt to remind you of specific incidents and then write those up in detail so as to address all aspects of reliability.

    The other reality behind keeping a diary is that, in the days when I stupidly believed this to be the only way of doing things, I rapidly realised that around 75 to 80% of claimants or their carers simply didn’t have the or physical ability to keep such a thing. Of the 20  to 25% who did then the diary was often literally full of 1 liners and told you nothing unless you probed at length anyway. 

    Better that I hone my skills as an interviewer to extract the relevant info. quickly in the first place than wait a week to a month for something which was often somewhere between superficial and useless.
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    That's true @mikehughescq I do struggle to stick to diaries in I always have since a child I always wanted to try and start them but that would be all I'd do? Start them over and over 😂🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ and now I only do it if I remember (which isn't very often) and normally when I'm in a bad place and it's stopping me from concentrating I try and get it all written down in poem form or diary.... I literally started trying to do this one as it was suggested by my mental health worker as a way to get things out of my head and I rarely do it more than 2 or 3 days out of 7 ... I do think the examples of what happens when I attempt to do the descriptors and support letters from people who have had to help me with those tasks will be more helpful but I guess if they don't need the diary entries they will just not use them for anything?
     To be fair @LeeA380 they don't ask for them? So maybe that's for a reason? I always think it's better to have too much than not enough (in most situations) but as long as you put as much information as you needed to in the actual MR that's most probably all they will need? I really hope you get some news soon and that it's good! How long have you been waiting now I think I did read before but my memory is pants! Sorry 😔 
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    What does WR stand for please @mikehughescq?? 
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,231 Disability Gamechanger
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 957 Pioneering
    I get pip and I didn’t send in a diary I sent care plans from my mental health team . But a diary is a good idea also you could get a family member or friend to write bout how your illness effects your day to day living . 
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    Oh OK thanks @chiarieds 👍😊
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