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Pip letter today about the law changing relating to planning a journey

janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger
edited July 7 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi all 
I got a pip letter today white envelope 

It was to tell me I wasn't affected by the law change relating to planning a journey 

While I appreciate they are reviewing claims regarding this matter surely they should automatically eliminate those already getting enhanced rate as they cannot get any higher award anyway 

They could then concentrate on those who it could affect 

Has anyone else had this 
Sorry if I'm not getting this just seems waste of resources when they are so pressured


  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 957 Pioneering
    Hi what’s this to do with what’s the new law to do with mobility I get lower rate mobility could this affect me ?
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 957 Pioneering
    Will they automatically decide whether some one should of got higher Points and let them know or will there be new reviews ? I haven’t recieved a letter from them . 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger
    They will review each case it affects it isn't everyone only those who claimed during a certain time period I'm not sure what the dates are but don't think it affects you 

    They send out a form if affected not a review 

    @chiarieds knows more about it than me 
  • MarkN88MarkN88 Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    cupcake88 said:
    Will they automatically decide whether some one should of got higher Points and let them know or will there be new reviews ? I haven’t recieved a letter from them . 
    I would imagine not everyone would get a letter at the same time, as they will review gradually. 
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 957 Pioneering
    Thanks for your replies 
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,234 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @cupcake88 - there has been a change in law with regards to the 'Planning & following a journey' descriptor for the mobility component. So if a person is considered to suffer from 'overwhelming psychological distress,' some decisions made since 28 November 2016 will be looked at again by the DWP. This only if more points would mean a person might now be awarded the standard rate, or this would be increased to the enhanced rate for mobility. Altho we have had members querying this, I don't think they've heard from the DWP, so it's a bit odd that Jane has had a letter when, as she says, she already has the enhanced rate for mobility so it wouldn't affect her anyway, as her letter says.
  • cupcake88cupcake88 Member Posts: 957 Pioneering
    @chiarieds. thanks for explaining that to me xx 

  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger
    They said it didn't affect me because I hadn't reported having any of the condition that are part of the change 

    Nothing about the fact I already get enhanced 

    @chiarieds it does make me wonder why they just don't eliminate those on enhanced 
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,234 Disability Gamechanger
    You're very welcome @cupcake88 :)
    Hi @janer1967 - totally agree. On the government's website it says, 'We will not look again at your PIP claim if you have been getting the enhanced rate of both the daily living and mobility parts of PIP since 28 November 2016.'
    ......but I'm not even sure why they mention the daily living component, as this change is about the mobility part!
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger

    Makes a bit of sense now as I only got standard daily living on my first application in 2018 

    But as you say it doesn't apply to dl 
  • cat_hugcat_hug Member Posts: 129 Pioneering
    @chiarieds Hi, I've been wondering about this too, as people may have got enhanced PIP mobility under the descriptor that says 'planning and following and following a journey.  Yet that does not mean they still might not have missed out, or were assessed correctly under the law. (Bear with me please and I'll try to explain my thinking)

    As an example, In my case, I was awarded enhanced mobility under the 'needs a guide dog or another person, etc...'
     Now, I am not blind and don't have a guide dog, but do need to travel with another person wherever possible, owing to the nature of my disability (neurological). However, I do struggle with social interaction immensely, not just with the Mobility descriptor (for which I was awarded 12 points and am extremely grateful). However, under the Daily living descriptor which addresses social interaction/meeting face to face etc, I scored zero points for 'needs help with social interaction' (The reality is, I nearly always need encouraging in social situations that require face to face meetings},

     but these don't always involve the need to plan and carry out a journey. They can be in my very own living own living room, but still cause a great deal of angst and anxiety just at the thought of it.

     However, the DWP stated this was covered by my getting enhanced mobility. (for needing a guide dog or another person to help plan and complete a journey). Whilst I get the logic against arguing the reasons why you got an enhanced component, ( Why would you complain aabout getting 12 points on one question when thats the threshold for getting an enhanced award, right?)  I think it is highly relevant when that same argument is used to deny you any points for the daily; living descriptor because they won't even consider you get severe social anxiety about interacting with others (whether it involves planning and making a journey or not.) Psychological distress about socially interacting is not mutually exclusive to planning and making a journey (in my opinion)  Case in point below:

    Even the thought of someone wanting to visit me in my own home sends me into a panic and causes anxiety. I don't understand why I'm like the way the am, it just is. Even if it's a loved family member who wants to visit., or someone coming to do a repair in my home, or even just the sound of the doorbell ringing, all of these scenarios throw me into a tailspin. So I've wondered that one cause for satisfying the threshold of a PIP descriptor, which might automatically meet the threshold for an enhanced award, (ie in my case, getting 12 points under that mobility descriptor) meant the DWP, nor the FTT (or subsequently the UT) would not even consider looking at the similar descriptor for the Daily Living component, which addresses problems some of us have with engaging in social interaction in our daily lives. Because of that descriptor not being given one iota of consideration for Daily living (as the focus seems to be more pertaining to the mobility component) that in itself, is causing some claimants (I'd be interested in knowing the figures) being denied getting any daily living pip at all, or getting standard instead of the enhanced.

    @mikehughescq you might be able to help me to understand if Im totally missing the point with this high court ruling and is it exclusively cases that pertained to carrying out/planing out a journey under the mobility component; or, is it to do with how problems with certain disabilities make it that much more difficult for people to interact socially in other areas of life, including parts which fall under the remit of some daily living descriptors? 

    I'm probably not articulating this very well, but I guess Im trying to say that engaging socially/severe psychological distress are not mutually exclusive to just one of the PIP components (ie Mobility), nor indeed exclusive to just the daily living component. The two parts, whilst they are assessed under different questions and criteria, are actually very much interlinked Or am I looking at this all wrong? To me, common sense doesn't really seem to be that common. 

    Im guessing with the easing of lock-down, these cases are going to be looked at again in earnest, since the search was halted around March 2020 due to the pandemic.

    Thoughts, ideas, facts pertaining to this would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance everyboy.

    Cat x
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,255 Pioneering
    The court ruling only deals with the mobility descriptor to do with planning a journey.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • cat_hugcat_hug Member Posts: 129 Pioneering
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 135 Pioneering
    Morning people, hope everyone is well, this is the question that is getting to me the most, following and planning a journey, one I don't leave the house as couldn't cope, I would panic, I would need someone with me, in emergency like the doctors, I would get a taxi, accompained, could never plan a route to somewhere I've never been, cause to much distress, I'm just confused. 
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 469 Pioneering
    Have you seen descriptors hun? So you know what they need to know regarding this question? 👍😊
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 135 Pioneering
    Yes I have,the problem I'm having is that I can't leave the house due to the distress it causes me, but will the tribunal see it like that, or say but if you had to leave the house could you do it, would you need someone with you, would you know where to go, could you get there safely, the last time I left this house I fell over. 
  • cat_hugcat_hug Member Posts: 129 Pioneering
    @Popdiva43 it's really hard to know what a tribunal will say. I was awarded points due to needing a person with me or guide dog. But no points for social engagement because I apparently showed no signs of anxiety at the doc assessment. 
    If the DWP assessed your Pip claim during the dates in question and you were awarded less points. You may be one of the people who missed out?  Depends when you claimed pip though 
    Good luck
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 135 Pioneering
    Cat_hug did you have face to face assessment or telephone assessment, I had telephone assessment and I was really low and panicking, but assessor said I was fine, so on everything I got zero points, when that wasn't the case at all, my daughter will be sitting next to me during my tribunal call, and she is going to talk them if they ask her questions. 
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,234 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @cat_hug - you say that you need another person with you under the 'planning & following a journey' descriptor due to your neurological disability, but don't mention 'overwhelming psychological distress,' so I'm unsure you could link to this as far as the 'engaging with other people face to face' descriptor goes.
    For the latter descriptor you say you nearly always need encouraging (prompting or support?), again not mentioning 'overwhelming psychological distress.' Now I'm not disputing your underlying condition(s), & how they undoubtedly affect you, but, from what you have written here, you haven't made your 'argument' clear.
    I do agree that you should have been awarded points for activity 9, & can't see how getting an enhanced mobility component means you weren't awarded any.
    Playing devil's advocate, other PIP claimants will have underlying condition(s), but because everyone, even with the same disorder, is different, then surely that's why there are different descriptors to assess each individuals difficulties. And can it be presumed that if you have difficulty with one descriptor you will necessarily have difficulty, or the same level of difficulty, with others? This will be the case for some people, but not all.
    If you haven't come across it, you might be interested in the following case I've just been reading (CPIP/1781/2019) about descriptor 9, & how different judges have looked at this.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,234 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Popdiva43 - remember for all the descriptors it's how you are more than 50% of the time. Here's some info on this activity/descriptor: https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Personal-Independence-Payment-Test/Plan-and-follow-a-journey

  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,205 Disability Gamechanger
    Seems I've opened a can of worms here 
  • cat_hugcat_hug Member Posts: 129 Pioneering
    Hi @chiarieds if I'm honest the actual wording of 'OVERWHELMING psychological distress' makes me question if I'm over exaggerating or appear to seem like it's laying on thick.
    I've laboured this point in my own head and driven myself daft about whether that's me. The truth is. I was raised in a big Irish Catholic family where issues around mental health were never discussed and even though it affected close family members. I Lways knew as a child? This was never. Under any circumstances. To be discussed outside of the home (it was barely discussed among ourselves. Never mind to outsiders)

    There was an unwritten  rule which learned very young.  that the stigma of shame that would be associated with words such psychological. Psychiatric. Mental health. Anxiety. Depression etc. We're just so taboo you would simply go to any lengths of self-denial rather than admit to suffering these difficulties.

    I do recall having a real inner struggle with answering that question because all of those entrenched stigmas seemed like you were being rubber stamped indelibly.  With all the things you were taught to fear (ie not having that label)
    In the end I think I did actually say. Yes. Being in this or that situation DOES cause me overwhelming psychological distress. Because the fear of having an attack and the risks and dangers associated with the physical problems. Also cause extreme distress.
    Ironically too. One of my main triggers for having a cataplectic attack. Is fear. Shock. Suprise. Sudden loud noises etc. Somebody sneaking up on me and making me jump.
    I've been in situations with people who think it's a big joke to scare the living daylights out of me by honking a car horn. Or shouting boo. So that I literally collapse in a heap like a rag doll. It's a two fold thing where strong emotive things will trigger the cataplexy ( which is associated with Narcolepsy but not all narcoleptics have cataplexy) unfortunately. I  have both.

    I think this is where the confusion arises. Even among consultant neurologists. Unless they specialise in sleep disorders. They often mistake or misunderstand the two very distinct facets of this disability.

    So I believe they considered the fact that sleep attacks are obviously dangerous and debilitating. Therefore awardeding the 12  points for mobility under the rule of needs a guide dog or person etc. But completely dismissing the fact that overwhelming psychological distress. Manifests in a very physical way by inducing cataplexy and vice versa.
    So they didn't feel the need to even consider psychological distress in terms of engaging socially. Because their argument was that this was addressed through the mobility descriptor and getting 12 points awarded for an ongoing period addressed thT.
    For me however. This isn't the case.

    Yes. Being awarded enhanced Mobility was greatly appreciated. But getting no points at all for social engagement is complete anathema to me?
    If  I were Miss Daisy (like in that film) yes. I'd feel safer and more confident about planning and taking journeys. But it still wouldn't help me with the severe action caused by such distress. that makes me physically suffer a cataplectic attack... and that's a visious circle because it causes even more distress when it happens and people either think its hilarious or think I'm drunk or on drugs and so it gets to the point that even people queying in the shop behind me makes my muscles go and Illdnd up dropping my change. Or groceries. Whilst an impatient cashier or customer is rolling their eyes or tutting.
    It sounds silly I suppose. But I've had occasions like that where I've literally just had to get of the store and leave my shopping half checked.
    That's just one example but there's many more  I can tell but they probably seem like stupid reasons to most people. I'm not explaining it very well and that's a problem. Because if I cant find a way to communicate these things.then they won't be understood. I'm not sure i understand it myself. Just that certain causes have a certain effect that isn't pleasant and makes you want to avoid people to avoid such situations happening... does that make any sense? 
    Sorry to be so garbled and inarticulate.  Cat xx  
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