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Hi, my name is tulisa. I have a PIP tribunal coming up. Do you think we'll get it?

tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
edited July 7 in PIP, DLA and AA
I have pip tribunal court come up because I've been turn down  my  dad  try to get pip for me and  universal credit said I not fit for work and  welfare rights are help us   I have  health condition and  disability   as well  do you think we will get it  been year  I have bad anxiety 

Replies

  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,181 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 6
    Hello @tulisapavloff1 - welcome to the community, & thank you for joining. Your tribunal hearing will just be a panel of a Judge, a doctor, & someone with an understanding of disabilities. On a forum such as this we cannot know your full circumstances, but, as you have the help of welfare rights, that is in your favour, as they will have an understanding of your health problems and how they affect you.. Tribunals have a much higher success rate than a Mandatory Reconsideration, & phone tribunals seem to be favourable at the moment. I hope it all goes well and you get the right award. :)
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Thank you  I am not fit  for  work  is that  good  evident
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 9,181 Disability Gamechanger
    Universal Credit and PIP are completely separate benefits with different criteria, so I don't think that will help you unfortunately. The best evidence is your own. Try & give a couple of real life detailed examples as to how you were at the time of your assessment. For example, for each activity/descriptor that applies, describe what happened when you attempted or did an activity. Did anyone see the problems you had, why did it happen, what exactly happened, & how did it leave you feeling afterwards?
    It's also important to say if you can't do an activity safely, if you can't do it to an acceptable standard, or repeat it as often as you would like, or if it takes you more than twice as long as someone who hasn't got your health conditions & or disability.
    If you haven't seen a list of the descriptors you can find them here: https://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/asset-library/Personal-Independence-Payment-Descriptors-and-Scores-April-2021.pdf    Please also look at the notes at the end too.
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Welfare rights rang this morning  said I got 6 points ineed  8 points  I worry I won't get it  and I have  mental health problems I am so stressed 
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener

    Welfare rights rang this morning  said I got 6 points ineed  8 points  I worry I won't get it  and I have  mental health problems I am so stressed 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,201 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi there 

    Have you had your tribunal now then ? Or is this what you got awarded before 

    If you have had the tribunal and that is the decision then unfortunately you have not been successful and no award has been granted 
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    edited July 12
    Going for tribunal  was award that before 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    1 - you are not going to court. You are attending a tribunal. The venue itself may be a court but the process you're taking part in is nothing like a court hearing. 

    2 - you have a representative. These are questions for them only as they are the only ones in a position to have seen your appeal papers and understand your case in full. The opinion of anyone on a forum in those circumstances is irrelevant. 

    Whilst I understand the worry the fact is you have engaged a WRA to help you with your case and they will be able to advise you of exactly what your case is; what your chances are; where the problems lie etc. Go talk to them. 
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Thanks you it phone tribunal  I am so stressed only got 6 points  people out their get  pip but I have lots of problems  that not  right 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    Ditto a telephone hearing. It bears no resemblance to a court hearing. It's a chat. Often a long chat but treat it as a chat and you'll be fine. Best advice is to not use it as an opportunity to "have your say" but rather to answer the questions as they come up. 

    It may be your opinion that 6 points is not correct but at this point that's for the tribunal to decide. Some WRAs take appeal cases simply because they have been asked i.e. without assessing the merits but based on the not unreasonable idea that everyone deserves representation. Others, assess a case and pursue it to appeal because it is winnable (albeit with no guarantee it will win). You need to talk to your WRA and understand which they are and what your case is. There is absolutely no better way to lower anxiety in these circumstances than learning something new and understanding your own case. 

    As I said earlier, forget this forum for this. You have an adviser. Go quiz them. 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,201 Disability Gamechanger
    While I sympathise with you it isn't about how many problems you have 

    It's about how they affect your ability to do the task against the descriptors 

    People may have numerous health problems but still be able to complete all the tasks 

    Good luck for your tribunal and as @mikehughescq says you have a advisor to help you so any concerns should be addressed by them 

    When is the tribunal 
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Probably not a good idea to look at what benefits other people have and if they should have them or not because we don't know everyone's situation behind closed doors? Same as they don't know yours?👍
     But anyway if they are saying you should get or are only getting 6 points then your best bet is to look at the link @chiarieds posted above? That will show you exactly what gives you what points? So if you can find places where you believe you need the extra points to give you an award then that's what you need to focus on? 
    But also like Mike said Above probably be most helpful speaking to the people already helping you with your case so you don't become more confused and anxious? Because other people can only base things on what happened to them and they will be in different situation so it may not help you?  😊👍
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Have  tribunal  telephone  call for  my pip claim  my dad try  to get pip for  me because I need help with things  and  I  have  mental health issues  dwp from  universal credit said I  am not fit for work I get  limited capability for work    their benefit people  told my  dad to go to tribunal  it have been year without  money for my dad  I am so stressed about tomorrow  hope  get it  because  my dad was get DLA  before  for me  
  • KarawenKarawen Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Good luck for tomorrow 🍀
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Thanks you  I hope I get it  have been so stressed  my dad not had any money for year that wrong 
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    good luck for tomorrow,i have mine on friday 
  • Leigh14Leigh14 Member Posts: 263 Pioneering
    Good luck for tomorrow @tulisapavloff1. I’m a bit confused though, the pip seems to be for you, yet you keep referring to the fact that your Dad has been without money for a year.
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    My dad try to get  pip for me  
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Good luck today @tulisapavloff1 hope your dad had chance to read the post above from Mike  before phonecall etc! 👍😊😎
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Had my pip tribunal  telephone  today  with my dad  they ask  silly question nor about my condition and  got 6 ponit  they didn't  really  ask my dad question  just me if I don't  get  it is wrong   and une  faire been at this  for year what wrong  with dwp  they said I am not fit work I don't understand  why should just give it me   they would  care if I was dying   my  mental health affects me everyday
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    edited July 15
    Hi @tulisapavloff1 sorry you feel it went badly today!
     Did you show your dad the thing Mike posted above? And have you guys seen the descriptors list? I know how frustrating it is but they honestly only need to know about certain things and it doesn't matter how upset we get and how wrong or right it is they have a list they stick to and if you don't struggle with those things they don't give you points? If i hadnt of seen the descriptors i would still be sat defeated like you are right now ☹️ 
     I thought you had someone helping you guys with all this? What have welfare rights said to you or your dad? Are they advising you that you only qualify for 6 points? Or have they said you can get more points in other areas?
     And universal credit saying you are unfit for work is really not anything to do with PIP they look at different things altogether? Plenty of people are unfit for work but don't qualify for pip?
     I just want you to get the right help and understand how it works or your dad to understand what is going on so you are able to either push further with this (if it doesn't go through) or accept it isnt likely to happen? Because you are making yourself poorly by going through all this for nothing? ☹️
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Found  out on  23 or 24 what happened welfare rights
    Said  their    tribunal  agreed   to give the 6 ponit  I need  tow  more ponit 
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    further  evidence  has been  provided  in respect  of miss pavloff  appeal  the evidence  received  compries of an appeal  submission  from welfare  benefits  office and whilst this  has been reviewed  has no effect  on the appeal  submission  the secretary  state  postition  remains  what does it mean 
  • Peter99Peter99 Member Posts: 61 Connected
    Ditto a telephone hearing. It bears no resemblance to a court hearing. It's a chat. Often a long chat but treat it as a chat and you'll be fine. Best advice is to not use it as an opportunity to "have your say" but rather to answer the questions as they come up. 

    It may be your opinion that 6 points is not correct but at this point that's for the tribunal to decide. Some WRAs take appeal cases simply because they have been asked i.e. without assessing the merits but based on the not unreasonable idea that everyone deserves representation. Others, assess a case and pursue it to appeal because it is winnable (albeit with no guarantee it will win). You need to talk to your WRA and understand which they are and what your case is. There is absolutely no better way to lower anxiety in these circumstances than learning something new and understanding your own case. 

    As I said earlier, forget this forum for this. You have an adviser. Go quiz them. 
    People often get into the trap the Tribunal is just an informal chat. No it is not. The proceedings a legal process where all rules of law applies. I always say to people not to be lured into a sense of security and to object to everything DWP says, argue with the Judge if necessary and to say everything that needs saying because you won't get another opportunity to do so.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 21
    Peter99 said:
    Ditto a telephone hearing. It bears no resemblance to a court hearing. It's a chat. Often a long chat but treat it as a chat and you'll be fine. Best advice is to not use it as an opportunity to "have your say" but rather to answer the questions as they come up. 

    It may be your opinion that 6 points is not correct but at this point that's for the tribunal to decide. Some WRAs take appeal cases simply because they have been asked i.e. without assessing the merits but based on the not unreasonable idea that everyone deserves representation. Others, assess a case and pursue it to appeal because it is winnable (albeit with no guarantee it will win). You need to talk to your WRA and understand which they are and what your case is. There is absolutely no better way to lower anxiety in these circumstances than learning something new and understanding your own case. 

    As I said earlier, forget this forum for this. You have an adviser. Go quiz them. 
    People often get into the trap the Tribunal is just an informal chat. No it is not. The proceedings a legal process where all rules of law applies. I always say to people not to be lured into a sense of security and to object to everything DWP says, argue with the Judge if necessary and to say everything that needs saying because you won't get another opportunity to do so.
    Which may explain the mess you keep posting about on here. Oh dear.

    If you head into a tribunal room with the mindset of objecting to “everything DWP says” and “argue with the judge if necessary” then the outcome is a foregone conclusion. I’ve been doing appeals for 35 years give or take a year and my starting point with all appellants is that a DWP PO, if there at all, will talk across the tribunal and pay the price. Have watched hundreds of POs. They never learn. Thus we don’t talk across anyone.  Basic understanding of tribunal etiquette gets you a long way. 

    Actially my starting points are that you

    - watch the judges pen. They can’t write as fast as you can talk.
    - never ever talk across anyone;raise your voice or directly challenge other than in the most extreme circumstances (tribunal member asleep for example or racist, sexist etc.).
    - answer only the questions you have been asked. You can have your day at the end and screw it up entirely if you wish but if you want to win then do as I suggested the rest will fall into place. 

    The tribunal is not the place to challenge judges who are there as part of a group of three trying to get you to the place where you can get an award. Your arguments should be set out in full in an SSCS1 and a written submission. Done properly that turns a tribunal into a rubber stamping exercise. Done badly you get a reputation which will precede you and inevitably be to the detriment of your case. 

    Tribunals are not wholly bound by some obscure “rule of law” and nothing but. You ,at want to read rule 2. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488476/consolidated-sec-rules.pdf

    A tribunal is inquisitorial not adversarial and if you go in with an adversarial approach you absolutely get what’s coming to you. Very poor advice indeed in my personal view.
  • Peter99Peter99 Member Posts: 61 Connected
    @mikehughescq
    You need to mind the tone of your replies as not to be misconstrued as bullying. It is wrong for you to say someone is writing a mess just because you disagree with them.
    FYI, the words "inquisitorial" and "adversarial" are interchangeable. Yes, the Tribunal would have to ask you lots of questions to take evidence but your opponent (DWP) can also produce evidence to prove you wrong or the Tribunal may choose not to believe you perticularly when your credibility is in doubt. Besides, if you don't oppose what the DWP is saying about you, it will be taken as you accept it. My point is:  The Tribunal is not as "informal" as it is cracked up to be.

  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Posts: 4,171

    Scope community team

    edited July 22
    (Note, I apologise if any of this post appears to be missing or incorrectly formatted. I have just seen that part of the comment is missing when viewing it on the community, whereas it appears normal in the text box.)

    While disagreement is natural when it comes to a subject like this, I'd like to remind everyone to ensure that is done in a respectful way towards each other, and in a tone that maintains a constructive discussion for everyone involved, most of all the OP.

    I'm sure that Mike didn't intend his comment to come across as bullying @Peter99, and in fact he clarified that it was just his opinion. But I acknowledge that comments such as "Which may explain the mess you keep posting about on here. Oh dear" do not represent the kind of remarks conducive to a supportive and welcoming environment, so I'd just like to remind you @mikehughescq to ensure that you consider how your tone may come across through an online forum.

    @tulisapavloff1?


    Online Community Coordinator

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  • Leigh14Leigh14 Member Posts: 263 Pioneering
    Can I just say as a member, I wouldn’t have said that @mikehughescq post came across as bullying, more as pointing out that a poster had given wrong information. Mike gives the best advice on here, as he has years of experience and clearly knows what he is talking about. I’m sure I speak for others when I say that we would hate to lose Mike on here. 
    My opinion of course.
  • Ross_ScopeRoss_Scope Posts: 4,171

    Scope community team

    Thanks @Leigh14 :) 
    Online Community Coordinator

    Talk to our chatbot and give us feedback on the community.
  • Girl_No1Girl_No1 Member Posts: 105 Courageous
    I agree with @Leigh14 - I had a long comment typed out this morning commenting, amongst other things, on the value of "objecting to everything DWP says" (as advised by @Peter99)

    I've chosen to not comment on the other issues, but I still think it is important to note it may be unwise to make statements like that as some members have Autism-related conditions which means they will take this advice literally and could potentially argue even when DWP concede a point!   

    On a personal level, I have found @mikehughescq ' s advise excellent if a bit "too the point" at times :wink: - but do we have to acknowledge Mike brings a wealth of experience and he does this free of charge, often into the wee small hours!! :-D 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,621 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 22
    "Bullying" is a very small word with very big implications. It should not be bandied about lightly and especially because people don't like people who disagree with them. The act of publicly suggesting someone might be risking public bullying is arguably an act of passive aggressive bullying in itself. 

    "I know. If I publicly criticise this person they will pipe down and be embarrassed and other people may even join in and support me. Between us we can make that person look really bad. Better still I'm not actually going to call you a bully because I know I'd then be on dodgy ground. I'll just infer that others might view it that way and offer you a warning."

    I wonder exactly which bit of that Scope are comfortable with?

    Essentially one poster doesn't like my response. The correct response there is to report it is it not? I think that's what those buttons are for. It does not require some performative "I'm going to say that I don't think you're a bully even though I do really. I just want others to fight that battle for me and embarrass you."

    I'm afraid @Ross_scope that I am not minded to mind my tone over the phrase "Oh dear" or indeed the rest of the sentence. Such responses continue to make a laughing stock of this forum and its administration. If there was any breach here my post would have been edited or taken down. Neither have happened. It doesn't look as though the post has been reported either as presumably there would have been no public discussion. 

    So, no report, no breach and yet Scope admins feel the need to comment once again in reaction rather than reviewing in the totality. As others who have left here have observed there comes a point when you get a little bored of this nonsense and just get out. 

    The correct response here would have been to have edited the post using the word "bullying" and to have issued a warning there. 

    If Scope were truly in favour of a supportive and welcoming environment for all
    then I'd venture to suggest they clamp down instantly on anyone who wants to make a public show of another rather than use the report button and perhaps not target the poster who has posted endless "supportive" posts to the person in question. Instead this is the usual usual. First to complain publicly will almost always be upheld and Scope admin join in publicly with the ritual. 
    Peter99 said:
    @mikehughescq
    You need to mind the tone of your replies as not to be misconstrued as bullying. It is wrong for you to say someone is writing a mess just because you disagree with them.
    FYI, the words "inquisitorial" and "adversarial" are interchangeable. Yes, the Tribunal would have to ask you lots of questions to take evidence but your opponent (DWP) can also produce evidence to prove you wrong or the Tribunal may choose not to believe you perticularly when your credibility is in doubt. Besides, if you don't oppose what the DWP is saying about you, it will be taken as you accept it. My point is:  The Tribunal is not as "informal" as it is cracked up to be.

    All that said then, it's worth picking the bones out of the above. 

    It is asserted I said the poster was "writing a mess". That is a complete misinterpretation of the phrase "the mess you keep posting about on here" i.e. I am very clearly saying that you persist in posting allegedly on behalf of another about a case which, at best, can be described as a mess. Perhaps someone else would like to review those threads and posts and see if they come to a different conclusion. An accusation of bullying based on a clear misreading of the post in the first place. Hmnm. Still feeling comfy Scope?

    Having read and often responded to many of those I think any reasonable person would conclude there is a mix of evasion and who knows what else. What sounds like a simple matter has descended into something complex but which no-one here can unravel for lack of full information. However, I think it's not an unreasonable conclusion that if part of the approach taken was to challenge the DWP at every opportunity and indeed the judge within a tribunal then the current complexity is not unsurprising. I don't know that for sure and thus could not say for sure but what I can say, and absolutely stand by, "tone" and all, is that if that advice is being giver to others, and the post in question clearly suggests that it is, then it poor advice and simply wrong. I have already explained why so I have no intention of explaining myself further on that point. Nor, however, will I back down on it. It is very poor advice and I would recommend anyone pursuing an issue to appeal to ignore it. 

    Finally, the words "adversarial" and "inquisitorial" are not in any sense, and especially in this context, "interchangeable". Nor have they ever been. Quite happy to challenge anyone to give me an example.

    Tribunals are inquisitorial. Those which are conducted in a manner which is not are likely to find their outcome either set aside or headed off to UT. However, when a claimant or their rep. takes an adversarial approach from the outset I have yet to see an instance where that has ended well and nor am I aware of others having that experience either. 
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
     I have been  awarded  89 and 23 for pip 
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    @tulisapavloff1 I'm glad you won your award but have you got the calculations right the max is 84 on daily living, 
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Think twas maybe typo but my obsessive [email protected]@ wont stop wondering how many it actually is?! Ridonculous huh? Lol 😂👍🤦🏻
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,208 Pioneering
    edited July 23
    Popdiva43 said:.. the max is 84 on daily living, 
    Enhanced Daily Living is £89.60/week.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Points i think she meant @calcotti ? 👍😊
  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,208 Pioneering
    edited July 23
    Emilyb81 said:
    Points i think she meant @calcotti ? 👍😊
     I have been  awarded  89 and 23 for pip 
    I read it as rounded figures of £89 Daily Living (enhanced) and £23 Mobility (standard) - actually £89.60 and £23.70.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    Oh me bad I read it wrong 🤣
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Oh ffs me too then! Sorreeee its friday in exhausted (honest) 🤦🏻😂👍
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Its hard enough for me to remember the day most of the time 😂😊🤗
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    @Emilyb81 we are two peas in a pod 😳😳😊
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Poor you then haha 😝 just kidding its nice to meet a fellow memory deficient 👍😂❤️
  • Popdiva43Popdiva43 Member Posts: 133 Pioneering
    @Emilyb81 if we put our 2 brains together we would be bloody dangerous 🤣🤣🤣
  • Emilyb81Emilyb81 Member Posts: 450 Pioneering
    Knowing what i know about mine lethal I'd say 😂❤️👍 have a fab weekend twin! And everyone xx
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    When first payment after tribunal  win  
  • Tori_ScopeTori_Scope Posts: 5,020

    Scope community team

    Hi @tulisapavloff1 :) The Citizens Advice website says
    If your appeal is successful, you’ll get an official notice in the post within a couple of weeks. You’ll receive your new amount of money every 4 weeks.

    The DWP will also have to pay you everything they should have been paying you from the date of your claim. It normally takes 4 to 6 weeks for this money to come through.

    I'm not sure whether that timeframe can vary though, as is often the case with benefits timescales!

    Does that help?

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  • calcotticalcotti Member Posts: 2,208 Pioneering
    DWP have a right of appeal so they first have to decide whether or not they wish to request a Statement of Reasons and then appeal or whether they accept the decision and will put it into payment. Therefore timescale varies.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • tulisapavloff1tulisapavloff1 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    Thanks you wait and see what happens in bank 
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