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Is the welfare assessment process meeting disabled people's needs?

Tori_Scope

Read the full article on the Evening Standard here

Charities have urged the Government to overhaul its “woefully flawed” welfare assessment process for people with disabilities.

Minister for Disabled People Justin Tomlinson published a Green Paper in the House of Commons on Tuesday to examine how to reform the health and disability system.

He said a consultation as part of the process aims to improve the way the government helps disabled people and those with health conditions to “start, stay and succeed in work”.

Mr Tomlinson told MPs the Government was aiming to focus on issues including how health assessments are conducted, reducing the number of assessments taken and testing new support measures available to people.

The consultation will last for 12 weeks and detailed proposals will be brought forward in a White Paper in the middle of next year.

James Taylor executive director of strategy at disability equality charity Scope, said it was “right” that the government was looking at improving the welfare system but it needed to make sure any changes met people’s needs.

“If this Green Paper is to have any positive impact for disabled people, it cannot simply tinker at the edges,” he said.

“The last 20 years have seen successive governments tweak the welfare system at huge costs but despite this, almost two million more disabled households have fallen into poverty in the same time period. Something isn’t working."

“Overhauling the woefully flawed assessment process has to be a priority. The high rate of successful appeals demonstrates the scale of the problem. It is vital that disabled people receive the right decision first time, instead of facing more months of stress and hardship to get the support they need.”

Do you think the current welfare assessment system meets disabled people's needs? Is it fit for purpose? What could change? What do you hope will come from the consultation?

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Comments

janer1967

Where to start is the question

Will have to give it some thought so its not just a rant but constructive

calcotti

Now we have a consultation on reform of the welfare systems when existing reforms are far from complete.

Correction of errors made on transfer from IB to ESA only just completed.

DLA to PIP transfers ongoing.

UC roll out 5 years behind with several years still to go.

What would make the biggest difference at the moment is funding to increase many benefit levels (but I can't see that happening).

calcotti

Username_removed said:

The consultation is a dressing up of previous stuff with one worrying addition at the end. See https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ministers-could-merge-disability-benefits-and-want-to-cut-future-spending-says-green-paper/

So the desired direction of travel is the opposite of what is needed. Having said that outcomes are often contrary to what is intended, I think PIP was supposed to cut disability benefit expenditure but hasn’t. Similarly UC is not, as I understand it, achieving the cost savings that were supposed to be one of its justifications.

Cher_Alumni

Thanks for your comments everyone.

If anyone wants to feed into the Government's consultation on The Health and Disability Green Paper, visit this online survey and have your say.

Stoney316uk21

The only assesor that would ever benefit the dwp are disabled ones they would identify fraudulant claims in a heartbeat rather than an ex nurse or ex paramedic they know basic medical knowledge nothing like brain issues or ms or even erbes paulsey as my wife has it and the amount of times they ask her to put her arms up ..duh she cant erbes paulsey is birth trauma her arm is for decoration .pointless waste of money and peoples time

Caley

It's all very well the government and DWP being obsessed with "getting disabled people into work", but what about the many hundred of thousand who genuinely can't work due to their health? Some disabled people may wish to work and may manage, say, part time or might be ok in a job that's suited to their needs and abilities and have a good employer, but the DWP don't seem to acknowledge this as well as they should and there are some terrible employers out there who treat ill and disabled (and non-disabled) employees appallingly, often getting away with it and the DWP then sanction people for having to give up work because it's having a detrimental effect on their health. It's terrifying to know that people who have been deemed fit for work have within a few months died from a condition the DWP have dismissed as not serious enough to stop them working.

Hubby and I are both disabled and get PIP. My assessments have always been fairly straightforward because I have osteoarthritis, a common and easily-recognised condition and having aids and adaptions provided by social services seems to mean assessors accept my difficulties as valid. However, my husband has both physical and mental health problems, and his mental health issues have been totally dismissed by the assessor, only awarding him points for his physical disability which is, again, very visible and obvious and the aids the OT provided were for us both. Last assessment he had a psychologists letter describing how his anxiety affected him, was visibly anxious and stressed at the assessment but all that was dismissed because he "didn't look anxious" (a huge lie), "wasn't under current mental health service care" (because in our area, you get a limited 6-week course of CBT and then discharged regardless of whether you're any better, which he wasn't), and that "he is only on a low-dose of first-line antidepressant treatment", which is simply because increasing his dose made him so ill with migraine and nausea it had to be reduced again. He was so anxious at the thought of appealing and terrified he might lose what he'd already been awarded we decided it was best just to leave it, although he probably would have won and got enhanced rates.

To me, it seems like these so-called "health professionals" only see what they want to see, and they obviously see mental health and cognitive difficulties as something that can be dismissed because it's not as visible and obvious as someone with a physical disability (and they're pretty good at ignoring those too in some cases). Just because someone comes in looking clean and tidy, can string a sentence together and isn't currently under mental health services doesn't mean they don't have a serious life-limiting mental health issue. It's convenient for assessors and the DWP to use excuses (ie low-dose medication, not under current treatment) without even considering there may be a very good reason why and that that doesn't mean the person is fine and isn't struggling every single day of their life). They must know that NHS mental health services are woefully under-resourced and the fact that someone isn't receiving treatment means nothing, as half the people who need treatment aren't getting it because what they need to address their issues properly just isn't available, and for those who are getting support, most of it is very short-term and totally inadequate (I did a counselling degree and learnt a lot about the NHS standard approach to mental health and just how inadequate it is for a lot of people).

The government and the DWP are all about saving money and if they could get away with bringing back Victorian workhouses for poor and disabled people, they would do it in a heartbeat. I really believe that they're quite happy for their harsh and authoritarian regime to cause deaths of poor, ill and vulnerable people because in the end, they don't value those people anyway and it saves them money - no more benefits, NHS or care costs to support what they regard as "a burden on society". And while ever they're ok with the deaths of people they don't want "draining the public purse" , things will only get worse as they make the system ever more harsh and uncaring towards those vulnerable people who need help the most.

Lisatho11987777

Thry say they want to help disabled people into work but then there is no help or support when you do I am now actually worse off working after paying council tax my extra rent and October lose my uprise so will be just over 86.00 down so worse off again

Lee39

Absolutely not.... In my Area they even shut down Remploy. Sadly it just feels disabled people to this government are just a statistic.

I have one coming up i am sure of it as i just returned my award review, i will refuse to go to an assessment center if they want to give me one then they will come to my home.

roots45

of course the benefit system is totally wrong . these assessor captia maxmus ATOS arent quilfied to to do asessement . only doctors AND consultants are . the way they treat disabled people is APPALLING . THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED IN HIGH COURTS. THEY OVER RIDE WHAT EVER DOCTORS SAY . AND NO ONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT . THIS GOVERNMENT JUST DO AS PLEASE . SOONER THEY GONE BETTER.

MarkM88

roots45 said:

of course the benefit system is totally wrong . these assessor captia maxmus ATOS arent quilfied to to do asessement . only doctors AND consultants are . the way they treat disabled people is APPALLING . THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED IN HIGH COURTS. THEY OVER RIDE WHAT EVER DOCTORS SAY . AND NO ONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT . THIS GOVERNMENT JUST DO AS PLEASE . SOONER THEY GONE BETTER.

Why? You aren’t getting a medical assessment.

Lee39

@roots45

He is right in what he says, 9 times out of 10 they send an occupational therapist to do these assessments, the key word there is occupational, they usually twist what you say or just do not listen at all, these assessments particularly the ESA one are not fit for purpose and disabled people do get treated unfairly. At the end of the day these Assessors are sent out to Fail as many people as they possibly can, and that is an absolute disgrace, But it is typical Tory behavior attacking the least able they have done it for eons and they will continue to do so, we are just a 1 to them.

roots45

nothing will ever change while this tory government are in power . only when we get Labour back in power will things change i sorry to say. no one is poweful enough to bring this government to account . they say they doing ASSESSEMENT TO WEED OUT FRAUD . WHAT ABOUT THEM . OTHOR COUNTRYS DONT TREAT DISABLED PEOPLE IN SUCH APALLING WAY LIKE THIS TORY GOVERNMENT . NEVER KNOWN ANY THING LIKE IT IN MY LIFE . I DISGUSTED.

Lee39

roots45 said:

nothing will ever change while this tory government are in power . only when we get Labour back in power will things change i sorry to say. no one is poweful enough to bring this government to account . they say they doing ASSESSEMENT TO WEED OUT FRAUD . WHAT ABOUT THEM . OTHOR COUNTRYS DONT TREAT DISABLED PEOPLE IN SUCH APALLING WAY LIKE THIS TORY GOVERNMENT . NEVER KNOWN ANY THING LIKE IT IN MY LIFE . I DISGUSTED.

You are not wrong in what you say, but it was not so great when Labour were in power, and honestly it pains me to say they are a long way off to being back in power, but i do agree these frauds need to be held accountable for their actions.

roots45

I DONT THINK THEY HAULED AND HARRASED PEOPLE LIKE THIS GOVERNMENT . IT USE TO BE DOCTORS THAT DID assessement under Labour.

Lee39

roots45 said:

I DONT THINK THEY HAULED AND HARRASED PEOPLE LIKE THIS GOVERNMENT . IT USE TO BE DOCTORS THAT DID assessement under Labour.

You are not wrong

But Doctors cost money to hire so they choose to go with Yes men/women who know absolutely nothing about the conditions they are sent out to assess.

Lee39

Excoriated said:

ALL governments will try to cut any benefit claims the Tory party are the most inhumane at doing it, we all know benefit fraud happens but they ask the wrong questions to the wrong people I mean you wouldn’t tell a chef how to boil an egg they know what’s wrong with you medically but how it affects you is the important one and if it doesn’t cause you pain-or harm then you can work I mean I could sit in the House of Lords earning a big salary and snoozing my opiate pain relief away besides isn’t atos and capita french? Makes you think

So true. They do ask the wrong questions, most of the time they ask you the same question multiple times to try and confuse people into making mistakes, they are very clever.

I have them worked out now more than 15 years of experience, they already came at me and removed my ESA unfairly i must add, and now for the last 10 years they have been coming for my DLA/PIP , i have Degenerative conditions they are not going to get better they are going to get worse but every 2 years they come i just wish they would leave me in peace.

It does not help my depression/anxiety i can tell you that, i am currently waiting for my award review response they told me 10 weeks at least... i am dreading it.

MarkIngleton

No in a word had to move to bungalow as stairs are out . I have moved hundred miles and move in with my partner/ carer . All my money stopped . They don't count mortgage as a payment so lost half of the wages stop my money completely so now just pips money. I can not work they have said not fit for work . My doctor will not sign me back to work can they make decision on long term sick and universal credit . And pay different set rate as a couple and single

roots45

Lee39 said:

roots45 said:

I DONT THINK THEY HAULED AND HARRASED PEOPLE LIKE THIS GOVERNMENT . IT USE TO BE DOCTORS THAT DID assessement under Labour.

You are not wrong

But Doctors cost money to hire so they choose to go with Yes men/women who know absolutely nothing about the conditions they are sent out to assess.

it cost million to hire these companys..more than they worth. ..

Tori_Scope

Hi @Lee39 and @roots45,

Thanks for sharing your opinions on this topic. Just to copy over what I posted on this other thread today in terms of PIP assessors:

All HPs recruited for the delivery of PIP assessments (or any parts of these) must meet the following requirements:

be an occupational therapist, nurse, physiotherapist, paramedic or doctor

be fully registered with the relevant licensing body (doctors must have a licence to practise)

have no sanctions attached to registration unless they relate to disability. In individual cases, this requirement may be wavered subject to prior written agreement with DWP

have at least 2 years post full registration experience (this refers to either UK registration or equivalent overseas registration for non-UK HPs) or less than 2 years post full registration experience by individual, prior, written agreement with the department

have passed a Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) check

Before they are approved to carry out assessments, providers must be able to demonstrate that HPs:

have appropriate knowledge of the clinical aspects and likely functional effects of a wide range of health conditions and disabilities

have appropriate skills in assessing people with physical health conditions, including history taking, observation and ability to perform a relevant examination

have appropriate skills in assessing people with conditions affecting mental, intellectual and cognitive function, including history taking, observation and ability to perform a relevant examination

are able to critically evaluate evidence and use logical reasoning to provide accurate evidence based advice

have excellent interpersonal and written communication skills that include the ability to:

interact sensitively and appropriately, with particular regard for an individual’s cultural background and issues specific to disabled people

take a comprehensive, appropriately focused and clear history

accurately record observations and formal clinical findings

produce succinct, accurate reports in plain English, fully justifying conclusions from evidence gathered, and dealing appropriately with apparent conflicts of evidence and fluctuating conditions

Taken from: PIP assessment guide part 3: health professional performance (gov.uk).

In terms of ESA assessments, this freedom of information (FOI) request response from the DWP states that:

The Work Capability Assessment (WCA) aims to identify a person’s capability for work, taking
into account developments in healthcare and the modern workplace.

The assessment that is carried out is different to the more usual type of medical examination in which the Medical Clinician’s aim is to make a diagnosis and decide on appropriate treatment.

The role of the Healthcare Professional (HCP) within the WCA process is to assess the disabling effects of a claimant’s physical and/or mental health condition and the way in which it affects them in carrying out of a range of everyday work-related activities.

All HCPs have passed strict recruitment and experience criteria and are registered with a
relevant regulatory body such as the General Medical Council (GMC), the Nursing and Midwifery
Council (NMC), Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC) or EEA equivalent.

Centre for Health and Disability Assessments (CHDA) ensure that all HCPs have the following
qualifications and experience:

they are an occupational therapist, nurse, physiotherapist or doctor
they are fully registered with the relevant regulatory body (doctors must have a licence to practice)
they have no sanctions attached to registration (unless they relate to disability) – in individual cases this may be waivered subject to agreement with the authority
they have at least 2 years post full registration experience (GMC, NMC, HCPC or EEA equivalent) or for non EU graduates 2 years post full registration experience unless otherwise agreed on an individual basis by the Authority

DWP approves HCPs to carry out assessments. Approval by DWP will be dependent on CHDA
demonstrating that the HCP has completed, to DWP’s satisfaction, a course of training and
appraisal and demonstrates the required competence to carry out assessments.

All HCPs undertaking WCAs receive initial and on-going training to assess people with mental
health and variable conditions. In addition, CHDA ensures that Mental Function Champions are
available to provide advice and support to HCPs on health conditions and disabilities affecting
mental, cognitive, intellectual and behavioural function.

All Mental Function Champions have at least 2 years post full registration clinical experience in
the management of conditions affecting mental health, intellectual, cognitive and behavioural
function.

Do you have evidence to back up this claim @lee39?

At the end of the day these Assessors are sent out to Fail as many people as they possibly can

Although some people do, unfortunately, have negative experiences of benefit assessments, it's important to remember that the assessors aren't there to catch you out as such.

Good luck with your review @lee39

Lee39

@Tori_Scope

That is an impressive list of requirements unfortunately it seems a lot of people are getting through that have hardly any of that.

Evidence to back it up is out there are many many testimonies from claimants and ex dwp workers and ex assessors who have backed this up. My personal experience is that i have had assessors straight up ignore what i said, completely twist what i said and i also had an assessor who straight up said to me he has no idea about my condition, to which i said well why are you here then and he was like because it is my job.

This government does appear to want to fix what they broke but claiming they are doing this to weed out fraud is simply a lie they are doing this to get as many people back into work as possible regardless of weather they are fit to or not, there are truly some horror stories out there u just have to look.