Is the welfare assessment process meeting disabled people's needs?

MarkM88

Lee39 said:

@Tori_Scope

That is an impressive list of requirements unfortunately it seems a lot of people are getting through that have hardly any of that. 

Evidence to back it up is out there are many many testimonies from claimants and ex dwp workers and ex assessors who have backed this up. My personal experience is that i have had assessors straight up ignore what i said, completely twist what i said and i also had an assessor who straight up said to me he has no idea about my condition, to which i said well why are you here then and he was like because it is my job. 

This government does appear to want to fix what they broke but claiming they are doing this to weed out fraud is simply a lie they are doing this to get as many people back into work as possible regardless of weather they are fit to or not, there are truly some horror stories out there u just have to look. 

Where’s the evidence? Links? 

roots45

Caley said:

It's all very well the government and DWP being obsessed with "getting disabled people into work", but what about the many hundred of thousand who genuinely can't work due to their health? Some disabled people may wish to work and may manage, say, part time or might be ok in a job that's suited to their needs and abilities and have a good employer, but the DWP don't seem to acknowledge this as well as they should and there are some terrible employers out there who treat ill and disabled (and non-disabled) employees appallingly, often getting away with it and the DWP then sanction people for having to give up work because it's having a detrimental effect on their health.  It's terrifying to know that people who have been deemed fit for work have within a few months died from a condition the DWP have dismissed as not serious enough to stop them working.

Hubby and I are both disabled and get PIP.  My assessments have always been fairly straightforward because I have osteoarthritis, a common and easily-recognised condition and having aids and adaptions provided by social services seems to mean assessors accept my difficulties as valid.  However, my husband has both physical and mental health problems, and his mental health issues have been totally dismissed by the assessor, only awarding him points for his physical disability which is, again, very visible and obvious and the aids the OT provided were for us both.  Last assessment he had a psychologists letter describing how his anxiety affected him, was visibly anxious and stressed at the assessment but all that was dismissed because he "didn't look anxious" (a huge lie), "wasn't under current mental health service care" (because in our area, you get a limited 6-week course of CBT and then discharged regardless of whether you're any better, which he wasn't), and that "he is only on a low-dose of first-line antidepressant treatment", which is simply because increasing his dose made him so ill with migraine and nausea it had to be reduced again.  He was so anxious at the thought of appealing and terrified he might lose what he'd already been awarded we decided it was best just to leave it, although he probably would have won and got enhanced rates.

To me, it seems like these so-called "health professionals" only see what they want to see, and they obviously see mental health and cognitive difficulties as something that can be dismissed because it's not as visible and obvious as someone with a physical disability (and they're pretty good at ignoring those too in some cases).   Just because someone comes in looking clean and tidy, can string a sentence together and isn't currently under mental health services doesn't mean they don't have a serious life-limiting mental health issue.  It's convenient for assessors and the DWP to use excuses (ie low-dose medication, not under current treatment) without even considering there may be a very good reason why and that that doesn't mean the person is fine and isn't struggling every single day of their life).  They must know that NHS mental health services are woefully under-resourced and the fact that someone isn't receiving treatment means nothing, as half the people who need treatment aren't getting it because what they need to address their issues properly just isn't available, and for those who are getting support, most of it is very short-term and totally inadequate (I did a counselling degree and learnt a lot about the NHS standard approach to mental health and just how inadequate it is for a lot of people).  

The government and the DWP are all about saving money and if they could get away with bringing back Victorian workhouses for poor and disabled people, they would do it in a heartbeat.  I really believe that they're quite happy for their harsh and authoritarian regime to cause deaths of poor, ill and vulnerable people because in the end, they don't value those people anyway and it saves them money - no more benefits, NHS or care costs to support what they regard as "a burden on society".  And while ever they're ok with the deaths of people they don't want "draining the public purse" , things will only get worse as they make the system ever more harsh and uncaring towards those vulnerable people who need help the most.

Lee39

@MarkN88 Right there is some evidence 

@Caley Exactly. 100%

Lee39

@MarkN88

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-council-probes-shockingly-poor-and-dishonest-assessments/

Pretty old but it is still happening now. 

Lee39

I tend to not go looking for it anymore as honestly it just down right depresses me

MarkM88

Lee39 said:

@MarkN88

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-council-probes-shockingly-poor-and-dishonest-assessments/

Pretty old but it is still happening now. 

That has nothing to do with what you said. 

Your claiming people are “getting through” as assessors without meeting the criteria set out. 

That article is not evidence of that! End of. 

Lee39

MarkN88 said:

Lee39 said:

@MarkN88

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/pip-investigation-council-probes-shockingly-poor-and-dishonest-assessments/

Pretty old but it is still happening now. 

That has nothing to do with what you said. 

Your claiming people are “getting through” as assessors without meeting the criteria set out. 

That article is not evidence of that! End of. 

I misunderstood what u wanted evidence of. apologies. 

Lee39

Excoriated said:

I think they’re using the same tactics as in business to them it’s business not personal to accept is personal means it’s human

If they’re not there to catch people out why ask the same questions several times in a different way can you walk? If so how far, if so for how long if so how does it affect you? If you can walk 50 metres how long does it take you it varies how can they assess how it varies or how it affects you unless they experience and can morph into your body

Exactly, sometimes i have good days where i can do that, sometimes i have bad days when i can not, they simply just report it as , has no problems. Why? 

roots45

i been harrasedby DWP SINCE 2013 . FROM GETTING ESA . THEN GOING FROM DLA . TO PIP . THEN GOING TO TRIBUNAL IN 2019. MY award is due to end on 19th november. instead of  me getting review . i had to fill  all the forms in all over again. now i of pension age.  i got  lot medical probelms like scoliosis  stennois  of spine                    Arthritis trigger thumbs Ac shoulder joints Arthritis.. and  fibromyalgia. is fighting them now.what this government are  doing amount to bulling.they have no Empathy for disabled people . 

Lee39

roots45 said:

i been harrasedby DWP SINCE 2013 . FROM GETTING ESA . THEN GOING FROM DLA . TO PIP . THEN GOING TO TRIBUNAL IN 2019. MY award is due to end on 19th november. instead of  me getting review . i had to fill  all the forms in all over again. now i of pension age.  i got  lot medical probelms like scoliosis  stennois  of spine                    Arthritis trigger thumbs Ac shoulder joints Arthritis.. and  fibromyalgia. is fighting them now.what this government are  doing amount to bulling.they have no Empathy for disabled people . 

That is awful.... i am sorry to hear that, My partner potentially has fibromyalgia but we are finding it incredibly difficult for the drs to diagnose it, we have gone through the nhs and private and they simply refuse they have just called it CRPS but its a lot worse than that. Can you not appeal? they should not be taking your reward away with all of those conditions but i imagine that you are just fed up of fighting them by now. 

Tori_Scope

Thread temporarily closed pending review 

Tori_Scope

Hi all,

So why re deploy dwp staff with 30 years experience 

What do you mean by this @Excoriated? Apologies, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

If they’re not there to catch people out why ask the same questions several times in a different way can you walk? If so how far, if so for how long if so how does it affect you? If you can walk 50 metres how long does it take you it varies how can they assess how it varies or how it affects you unless they experience and can morph into your body

sometimes i have good days where i can do that, sometimes i have bad days when i can not, they simply just report it as , has no problems. Why? 

Your answering honestly good days some bad days so it’s assumed your lying but if you say it’s bad all the time you are lying so what is fair to get the help you need 

In terms of these points, @Excoriated and @Lee39 you may find it helpful to read the 'additional information' section at the bottom of this Benefits and Work page. It explains some of the key terms, including what to do if you have a condition that fluctuates.

Variable and fluctuating conditions

Taking a view of ability over a longer period of time helps to iron out fluctuations and presents a more coherent picture of disabling effects. Therefore the descriptor choice should be based on consideration of a 12-month period.

Scoring descriptors will apply to individuals where their impairment(s) affects their ability to complete an activity on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12 month period. The following rules apply:

If one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period – i.e. the activity cannot be completed in the way described on more than 50 per cent of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

If more than one descriptor in an activity applies on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period, then the descriptor chosen should be the one which applies for the greatest proportion of the time.

Where one single descriptor in an activity is not satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, but a number of different descriptors in that activity together are satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days – for example, descriptor ‘B’ is satisfied on 40 per cent of days and descriptor ‘C’ on 30 per cent of days – the descriptor satisfied for the highest proportion of the time should be selected.

As I said in my original comment, some people do unfortunately have negative experiences with assessors. We're more likely to hear and read about these negative experiences, as people are less likely to share their experience if they didn't encounter any barriers to receiving the award they're entitled to. The assessor's job isn't to note down everything you'd said, or be an expert in your condition, but rather to assess you against the relevant descriptors. Of course, there's definitely room for improvement when it comes to benefits assessments and we're keen on hearing about what you think could be done better.

If you feel as though the assessor has misrepresented or misunderstood how your condition affects you, you can challenge the decision. People often find the best way to challenge a decision is to look at strengthening their own evidence, rather than pointing out what the assessor may have got wrong. If anyone needs some expert advice on their individual circumstances, I'd definitely encourage them to visit advicelocal.uk.

I'm also going to post a reminder of our house rules here, as we do ask that points are backed up by credible evidence where possible, and that opinion isn't presented as fact. 

Lee39

@Tori_Scope

Sorry Tori i did not mean to ruffle feathers i have strong views on this because of things i have read and seen in the past. Things got a bit heated, i am sorry for that. 

Lee39

@Tori_Scope @Excoriated

Obviously there are some bad apples out there, i guess what i meant was a lot, not all, assessors are simply dishonest, saying that i was absolutely amazed when the last assessor to visit my partner was actually a dr so hopefully the dwp is going in the right direction, but in answer to the question asked, No i don't agree that assessments are meeting disabled peoples needs and yes change is needed.

Lee39

It really is the luck of the draw these days with assessors 

Some excellent compassionate sympathetic assessors out there i am sure but sadly there are also some really bad apples out there. 

roots45

how is it even possible to do over phone PIP Assessment.