why were people on ESA ignored when people on UC got an extra £20 per week — Scope | Disability forum
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why were people on ESA ignored when people on UC got an extra £20 per week

hi all,, people on UC were already £4-5  a week better off than people on ESA,but when the government gave a temperally £20 a week rise to people UC, people on ESA  got didly squat, why?
this meant that people who are still stuck on ESA and havnt been put accross to UC yet by the governmeant have been approx £24 a week worse off than people on UC,even though they have the same problems?
surely its discrimination,i cant believe no one on ESA  as ever challenged it,they would surely win in the courts!
the tempory £20 a week rise should have been given across the board, and should be given to ESA claimants and  payments backdated to the start of the temperary rise ! why does this government still discriminate against poor and sick people?,

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    No one is "stuck on ESA." The only ones that have been moved accross are those very few people from Harrogate that were part of the UC pilot but this has now been temporary closed. 
    Those that are still claiming the legacy benefits can claim UC if they want to, there's nothing stopping them doing that and there's still nothing stopping anyone from claiming UC if they want to.
    As for the temporary uplift (which is almost ending) there's a court case coming up for this. https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/universal-credit-basic-fairness-20-uplift-case-given-high-court-go-ahead/

  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Member Posts: 1,803 Pioneering
    There is a court case scheduled. 
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    thanks MarkN88,
    is the court case you talk of concerning people on ESA who've been left out of the UC  £20 temperally rise?
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    Basically yes, although you should keep in mind that when they introduced the £20 a week "uplift" it was to try and help people who were out of pocket due to the pandemic, those on ESA were not affected in that way.
    The £20 a week was initially for 12 months at the cost of £6 billion it was extended by 6 months at the cost of another £3billion, there is no way the economy could extend such an ongoing expense and therefore it ends in two weeks time.
    What was intended as a temporary uplift people now seem to think of as a right, it isn't, simple as that really.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    thanks poppy123456,
    i know they are putting all new claiments of benefits  straight onto UC ,but weve not been informed by anyone, or seen it advertised, especially the DWP that we can move across to UC from ESA,i suppose thats why weve not been told,ESA is less money than UC? 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    You could have moved to UC to get the extra £20 but when it ends you couldn't have moved back.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    DWP are not there to give benefits advice.
     There’s never been anything stopping anyone claiming UC, with the exception of those that were claiming the severe disability premium but those rules preventing them claiming UC have now ended. 
    ESA will always be less money than UC because UC has replaced all the old legacy benefits and it’s one benefit made up of different elements.
    You can get a full benefits check to see if you’ll be better off claiming UC. 
    Whist it doesn’t work for some, it works for others. My daughter claimed UC in January without any problems at all. Had the work capability assessment and was placed into the LCWRA group 5 months later. 
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    thanks woodbine,
    were on ESA,we get paid £4-5 a week less than people on UC before they got the £20 uplift,so were now approx £24 a week worse of than people in the same position as us  on UC,my wife and i are dissabled, the only difference is, recent claims for being  in the same position as us disabled, are put straight onto UC,and thats the only reason there getting £24 a week more than us on ESA,
    so you can perhaps understand why we feel discriminated against,a little. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    I understand why people feel unhappy about not getting the £20 a week extra, but in two weeks time that will have ended.
    There is a court case in the offing but I wouldn't hold my breath for a result, even if we win it the DWP will just keep on appealing the decision, as they have in the recent past.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    As I advised, there’s stopping you claiming UC yourself. 
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    thanks again poppy123456,
    i will contact UC and hopefully move accross,its £4-5 a week more,we would have done it a long time ago if we had known!
    by the way is LCWRA group 5 where you dont have to attend the jobcentre regulary because your basically to ill?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    I don't advise you to contact UC for benefit advice because it's not their job to advise people in this way. The LCWRA element is equivalent to ESA Support Group so no commiments in this group. The LCWRA element of UC currently pays more than ESA Support Group providing your ESA doesn't include the Severe disability premium.
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    thanks for all your advice poppy123456 and woodbine,and everyone thats given advice,thanks again
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 3,005 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 17
    thanks again poppy123456,
    i will contact UC and hopefully move accross,its £4-5 a week more,we would have done it a long time ago if we had known!
    by the way is LCWRA group 5 where you dont have to attend the jobcentre regulary because your basically to ill?
    It would be prudent to get further advice to make sure this is right for you.

    You say in an earlier post that you and your wife are both disabled. Do you both receive a disability benefit (DLA or PIP)? If so what level are you getting?
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    thanks calcotti,
    my wife and i are on ESA and claim £180 for the both of us ,the claim is in my name i'm the oldest?
    but were in the process of getting pip forms to fill in?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    If your PIP claims are successful and you're both awarded at least the daily living part. If you're the only adults living in your household then you will be entitled to extra ESA because the Severe disability premium can be claimed. This will increase your ESA by £134.60 per week. This can be backdated to the start of your PIP award.
    If you claim UC then there will be no entitlement to SDP because it doesn't exist in UC, although you would be entitled to the SDP transitional proctection but this is less than the actually SDP. For these reasons you may want to wait until a decision's been made on your PIP claims.
  • Garza
    Garza Member Posts: 139 Pioneering
    there is some great knowledge here, I am on esa and get the SDP element, am I right in thinking that when I eventually get moved to UC I will be worse off as this element is not included in UC or is it more complex than that? 


  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 3,005 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 17
    thanks calcotti,
    my wife and i are on ESA and claim £180 for the both of us ,the claim is in my name i'm the oldest?
    but were in the process of getting pip forms to fill in?
    In which case, if you are the only adults in your house, you may prefer to wait. Although PIP takes a long time to claim if you were both successful in getting Daily Living PIP this could increase your ESA entitlement to a higher amount than you would get on UC. Obviously you may not be successful with PIP in which case you would have missed out on any extra money UC might have given you .

    Another factor to consider is that on ESA only you, the claimant, are getting NI credits (Class 1) towards your future State Pension. On UC, as you would both be claimants, you would both get NI credits (Class 3). Whether this matters will depend on your wife’s NI record. You can, if you wish, both get pension forecasts from the Future Pension Service.

    You say you are the oldest - how far from Pension age are you? The ESA will stop when you reach pension age and it is wise to apply for UC before reaching pension age so that your ESA status is carried over to UC.

    I would recommend you get advice to make sure you are aware of all the considerations before rushing to switch, once you have applied for UC there is no going back.

    (cross posted with poppy - took a long time to write!)
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    Garza said:
    there is some great knowledge here, I am on esa and get the SDP element, am I right in thinking that when I eventually get moved to UC I will be worse off as this element is not included in UC or is it more complex than that? 


    It maybe quite sometime yet before we are moved across. Unless a change of circumstances prompts a move in the meantime. When we do move if you still meet the criteria for SDP your UC will include the SDP transitional protection. It is slightly less than SDP if you’re in the Support group though. It also erodes over time so that’s another downside.
    My advice to myself is to forget about it at least for now anyway. 
  • Garza
    Garza Member Posts: 139 Pioneering
    Garza said:
    there is some great knowledge here, I am on esa and get the SDP element, am I right in thinking that when I eventually get moved to UC I will be worse off as this element is not included in UC or is it more complex than that? 


    It maybe quite sometime yet before we are moved across. Unless a change of circumstances prompts a move in the meantime. When we do move if you still meet the criteria for SDP your UC will include the SDP transitional protection. It is slightly less than SDP if you’re in the Support group though. It also erodes over time so that’s another downside.
    My advice to myself is to forget about it at least for now anyway. 
    thank you for the advice, I am indeed in the support group, I will try to forget about it until nearer the time but it would be nice to have an idea of the potential loss at some point so I can budget for it in advance
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    It could be as long as a few years away. Forgetting about it is the best thing for now. I know that’s what I’m doing. 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 3,005 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 17
    Garza said:
    there is some great knowledge here, I am on esa and get the SDP element, am I right in thinking that when I eventually get moved to UC I will be worse off as this element is not included in UC or is it more complex than that? 
    It maybe quite sometime yet before we are moved across. Unless a change of circumstances prompts a move in the meantime. When we do move if you still meet the criteria for SDP your UC will include the SDP transitional protection. It is slightly less than SDP if you’re in the Support group though. It also erodes over time so that’s another downside.
    My advice to myself is to forget about it at least for now anyway. 
    Two different scenarios here.

    For someone with SDP in ESA who ‘naturally’ migrates to UC they will get the SDP transitional element as you describe.

    For those who go through ‘managed’ migration the situation is different. They will get a transitional element to make the UC starting amount equivalent to the total of the benefits being replaced. They will therefore suffer no loss. The transitional element will however erode over time therefore effectively freezing the UC amount for however long it takes for the transitional element to be fully eroded (as happened with ESA claimants transferred from IB).
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    Thanks @calcotti that's good to know.
  • Garza
    Garza Member Posts: 139 Pioneering
    calcotti said:
    Garza said:
    there is some great knowledge here, I am on esa and get the SDP element, am I right in thinking that when I eventually get moved to UC I will be worse off as this element is not included in UC or is it more complex than that? 
    It maybe quite sometime yet before we are moved across. Unless a change of circumstances prompts a move in the meantime. When we do move if you still meet the criteria for SDP your UC will include the SDP transitional protection. It is slightly less than SDP if you’re in the Support group though. It also erodes over time so that’s another downside.
    My advice to myself is to forget about it at least for now anyway. 
    Two different scenarios here.

    For someone with SDP in ESA who ‘naturally’ migrates to UC they will get the SDP transitional element as you describe.

    For those who go through ‘managed’ migration the situation is different. They will get a transitional element to make the UC starting amount equivalent to the total of the benefits being replaced. They will therefore suffer no loss. The transitional element will however erode over time therefore effectively freezing the UC amount for however long it takes for the transitional element to be fully eroded (as happened with ESA claimants transferred from IB).

    who decides if your migration is natural or managed? 
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    calcotti,
    i am 65 next birtday and my wife is almost 60.
    but ive read or been informed at some stage that when i'm pension age my wife will then have to take over the ESA claim and she will have to claim for me.
    the rules are constanly changing,like people say were terrified of changing anything in case we end up with nothing,with these constantly changing rules from the DWP?
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    guys,thanks for all the advice,i'm more confused than ever because of all the different rules on each benefit,i think i will just carry on as we are,stay on ESA for now,at least we will be guaranteed an income!
    goodbye for now
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 17
    calcotti,
    i am 65 next birtday and my wife is almost 60.
    but ive read or been informed at some stage that when i'm pension age my wife will then have to take over the ESA claim and she will have to claim for me.
    the rules are constanly changing,like people say were terrified of changing anything in case we end up with nothing,with these constantly changing rules from the DWP?

    This is not correct. As you're the main ESA claimant when you reach state pension age your ESA will end. Your wife can't take over the ESA claim because it's your claim, not hers.
    As you are a mixed age couple then you will both need to claim Universal Credit but you should do this before your ESA ends. Your state pension will be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. Whether there's any entitlement to UC will depend on how much your state pension is and whether you claim for help with your rent.
    At the moment your wife will not be receiving any NI credits to her state pension because your ESA is your claim so only you will be receiving those. I don't know if you're aware of that but that's also something you should think about. It would be useful for her to check her state pension forecast. You can do that here. https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    poppy123456 thanks.
    so while ive been claiming for both of us ESA,my wifes not getting n,i, contributions for pension.
    if we are successful with a pip claim each would she then get her n.i.contributions?
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
    poppy123456,
    i think we really need to go to C.A. and have them work out what would be better for us?
    thanks
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,779 Disability Gamechanger
    No, PIP doesn’t pay NI credits. She needs to check her state pension forecast. 
  • mrpip2002uk
    mrpip2002uk Member Posts: 29 Connected
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 3,005 Disability Gamechanger
    Garza said:..who decides if your migration is natural or managed? 
    At the moment all migration is ‘natural’. ‘Managed’ migration refers to the the situation when DWP will, over time, be contacting all existing claimants of means tested benefits and advising them their benefits will end and inviting them to claim UC instead. If the claimant does so they will receive an amount of UC which is at least equivalent to the amount of the benefits ending.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.

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