Disability benefits without the fight

poppy123456

Colin123 said:

I had a call from PIP , they have received my form and it has been put on a pile , when it gets looked at (can not give a time limit could be a while I was told hopefully before September 2022) if no change could just receive a letter to say it will continue...If any change will be put in a queue for an assessment which because of Covid will be done over the phone. 

The majority of people have assessments, even for reviews, so you should expect one of those. Face to face assessments have started back for some people.

happyfella

I had a terrible experience but as mentioned finally got the correct outcome. But my experience has made me concerned about the renewal which will be in two years. I hope by then all the shocking problems have been sorted out and people are treated with respect

JanetMor

The PIP assessment interviews I've had were awful in that the persons conducting them were obviously disbelieving me. I felt so wronged.

onebigvoice

I have read the comments here and left comments on other posts.  And all I see is the same thing time after time, where people who apply for "access to benefits" any benefits have to prove they are ill?
My Opinion.:
  I see my doctor and other HCP's who treat every thing from Spinal Collapse to mental issues, and yet I do not see anywhere in my medical history where one HCP fits all?
  They are specialists in their own field's of "medicine" and have taken time to get the certification for their skills.
  I know some here say here we go again, but why should we be subjected to this questioning and then find that the report written is not the assessment you have attended, or their are bits in the report that were impossible to have been seen or completed yet the report says different.
  You may not be able to change the report but you can complain and then the system does it again, when you go to a Tribunal and the judge sees there are obvious errors in the report because you have shown them in a submission and backed it up with medical evidence.
  But is the assessor held accountable for the report?  Not according to some here it is just given less weight.  In tribunals I attend I ask for the supporting evidence you used to assess me, which I not on here that these assessors/experts do not offer you a copy of and you have to ask for it?
  This is the system we have allowed.  Get used to it.  But make the assessor accountable for the reports they write.
  Tell them good or bad I want it entered into my medical history and if they won't ask for a copy to give to your G P. as they have the skills to fix most disabilities.  

poppy123456

onebigvoice said:

  This is the system we have allowed.  Get used to it.  But make the assessor accountable for the reports they write.
  Tell them good or bad I want it entered into my medical history and if they won't ask for a copy to give to your G P. as they have the skills to fix most disabilities.  

Why would a person want the assessment report added to their medical history? A PIP assessment is not a medical, it's been said here, time and time again!

calcotti

poppy123456 said: Why would a person want the assessment report added to their medical history? 

Absolutely. Your medical history is there to inform people carrying out your medical care and a PIP or WCA assessment certainly isn’t going to do that!

M3dcol

I had my pip assessment a few weeks ago and was rejected. The letter states that I can manage my conditions, have no medication or use aids. I got points for having to sit when washing lower body but not for dressing or cooking, I have biologic injection and blood tests /xray/ct/mri scans monthly so the hospital monitors my condition, I just monitor the pain, and I can only take paracetamol due to liver problems. The assessment was at best negligent as I provided letters from a hepatology consultant, rheumatology consultant and gp which were clearly ignored. I don't expect a general medical professional to get me, the conditions are relative to so many others, and this, I believe, is where the system fails. Without them reading through your supporting documents and actually listening instead of just hearing, you're fighting a tick box exercise 

chiarieds

You say, 'I do not see anywhere in my medical history where one HCP fits all' The question is, & why would that be mentioned in your medical history? Even your Dr is a General Practitioner, which is why they may refer you on to other Drs who have specialised in for example, rheumatology, orthopaedics or cardiology.

I can only speak about physiotherapists, but we had to learn as much anatomy & physiology as medical students; were taught neuroanatomy & neurophysiology in the medical school by Drs; were taught rheumatology by a Consultant rheumatologist. We gained experience on wards both medical & surgical, paediatric & geriatric, as well as seeing outpatients in the physiotherapy departments, rheumatology & paediatrics. I had placements in a special school, where I looked after 2 brothers with Duchenne Muscular Dystophy, & children with spina bifida, a neurology ward, & a Child Development Centre.

We didn't have any occupational therapists in our hospital, so we had an 'Aids to Daily Living' caravan just outside the physio departments, & were taught about OT too. In my 'spare' time, I was invited by the Dr of the health care unit attached to the university, to help a young man with athetoid cerebral palsy, as I'd let it be known that I wanted to specialise in cerebral palsy.

That's all before qualifying. Then I spent several months in the regional spinal injuries unit, before specialising in cerebral palsy. This was in a large (11,000 + beds) mental health hospital, where I treated many of the older patients. So, I would think HCPs have a very wide reaching understanding of disabilities, & certainly physios would understand PIP functional assessments.

As I think you know, the HCP's assessments are audited in different ways. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-3-health-professional-performance

So, I'm lost off as to what your argument has become, sorry. I don't know how often it has been mentioned that a well completed PIP2 form is key, yet you keep referring to HCPs & their assessment reports instead.

weatherwax

My (reluctant) first ever claim for DLA was back in 2010. What an absolute nightmare experience. I say reluctant because I had been signed off sick in 2009, was hoping I would be able to return to work, wasn't happening & the specialists I was seeing at the time encouraged me to claim DLA. I couldn't even make myself a cup of coffee. My hubby filled in the claim pack & it was arranged for me to have a home assessment rather than go out to have a F2F as I was too ill. 

The assessor turned up slightly late due to having a stone smash his passenger side window. My hubby opened the door to him, he came in and said ''Hi, I'm such & such how are you?'' to me. I automatically responded ''I'm fine, thanks, you?'' This was used against me. Its my normal response to anyone who asks, as I tend to keep my true symptoms to myself with strangers.

What I should have said was 'tbh I feel like I've been run over by a 10 tonne wheeler several times & broken every bone in my body, while having a super flu amongst other issues, and that rather than be sat here talking to you while struggling with my excruciating pain, fatigue, anxiety and near panicking, I want to be in my bed, dying quietly'' But thanks for asking. 

He then proceeded to ask my hubby if we had any cardboard he could use to cover his car window, unfortunately we didn't and his mood/attitude turned. Like his day had suddenly gone from bad to worse. I personally believe he was mad at us for not having anything to cover his window.

I requested a copy of the assessment report & could not believe what had been written. It was totally all lies. He answered questions that were never asked of me. He said I could cook/prepare food by sitting down for one. (the health & safety people would have had a field day seeing me lift heavy, scalding hot pans while reaching over a hot cooker top while sitting down) even though I have OA, PA, weakness in all my joints including hands, wrists, elbows, shoulders & fingers, which I clearly stated I drop/spill things and am a risk factor as well as its dangerous. Not to mention I forget Im cooking and have burned so many pans & set the chip pan on fire that I can't be trusted. 

Out of the many paragraphs in the report I believe there was perhaps two or three that were not marked in highlighter due to the rest being totally false & made up by him. I was under so much stress & my anxiety was through the roof. 

It took 19 solid months of fighting with a possible 3 extra months waiting time on top to go to Tribunal level & a trip to my MPs surgery to get awarded at Tribunal level. In that time I became so depressed not only with my conditions but because I couldn't cope that I twice attempted to end it all. & Only being referred for CBT by my pain specialist means I am still here & can recognise when I'm going into a downward spiral & know its time to ask for professional help again. 

When I was told I would be transferring from DLA  which was awarded for life to PIP I believed it would be a straightforward 'transfer' only to find out it was actually a  'new claim' I would have to go through. My conditions have not improved, nor will they ever, they only get worse. So again they lied and the stress & anxiety reared its ugly head. 

I have been awarded enhanced for both care/mobility components and 'ongoing' this time, but that could change if they decide to bring in another 'new' policy to try and deny people. 

I wish I didn't have a disability, I wish I could do the career I loved & worked hard for before my body went on a wibble after years of just getting on with it and said enough is enough...Its just never going to happen & I think the way we have to fight & the stress it puts us all under is unfair and harsh. There must be a better way.

I firmly believe that no-one wants to be disabled & would love to continue to work if they could without having to claim disability to help them. I know I & many others certainly would. 

onebigvoice

chiarieds said:

I'll agree on some points @idontlikeliving -  I only have physical problems, but also found the PIP process stressful....right from completing the claim form; it's not much fun describing your 'difficulties' particularly as my son was writing it all up for me (I can type rather slowly, but writing is difficult due to a previous injury). It's not great for any of us to say how we are, as so often we try & cope, but you don't realise sometimes how bad you are until the form is completed.....my son was rather shocked as he didn't realise how badly I was affected, but I don't think writing down how we are helps any of us; it's depressing, & I'm sure likely to be detrimental to many people with mental health issues.....please don't think I'm minimising this.

In an ideal world I would agree that having mental health nurses (or others specialising with an understanding of this) would appear great, yet the PIP assessment isn't a medical. Exactly the same, only different, there's not even a specialist that understands my combination of disorders (in the UK), as I've said above.

I don't unfortunately see how more mental health nurses/professionals can be recruited as assessors, so I think the main thing is to go with the flow.......I think the main problem is it's not obvious to many (& I include myself as I went through the PIP process prior to joining this forum) as to how to 'successfully' complete the PIP claim form, this can then lead to not knowing what an assessment will be about, having to do a Mandatory Reconsideration, then an appeal, where, if actually done correctly, you're then listened to. I hope this forum can help members navigate the PIP process; it really is my sincere hope.

  You have hit the nail right on the head.  Assessors are according to there " COMPANY RULES "  are matched up with the claimant that they are assessing.
  In my opinion I don't like the going with the flow bit as this does not change the attitude of PIP's or DWP, if you think that then what are you paying for?  A medical Assessment that isn't a medical assessment, that really has already been completed by people that treat you and are qualified to do so.
  So when giving permission to contact the people you put on the forms that treat you why dont they do that.
  If they want to form their own opinion of how things affect you daily then contact them not me, because if I knew how to fix me I would not need the NHS or my GP?
  What happens if you don't give your permission to access or contact people that treat you?  They say it may take a little longer?  Why because they are still going to assess you and it will still take 20 weeks to get an answer which, let be fair most know will be ZERO anyway.
  You then have to ask how they formed their opinion and assessed you and the answer is still the same, its what you put on the form that they use or anything you supply in support of your claim for benefits NOT YOUR CLAIM FOR A MEDICAL ASSESSMENT big or small after the assessment is finished since they would then have to match you up with your problems ( Which they are supposed to do. )  And write on the report THEIR CONCLUSIONS/ON MY OPINION and sign it.
  It must also be realised that in printing their names on the bottom and sending that to the Decision Maker is classed as an ELECTRONIC SIGNATURE, other wise the decision maker could not use it. 

  I only have one other comment/opinion.  When going through all of this and you do get a decision in your favour, then why is the DWP and PIP's reluctant to give reasons why they have had to change their decision?
  Its because if they said that the reports they used were " suspect" from the assessors then they would have to arrange retraining for the decision makers in order to distinguish between what is written on the PIP's forms or any forms and the MEDICAL INFORMATION YOU SUPPLY as support for your claim, and the opinion of a Decision Maker who uses an OPINION of an assessor that sees/assesses you for one hour in years?
  Has anyone heard of an assessor being made to re-write their reports since they have submitted, as shown in the above a report a report that bares no resemblance to the claimant?  I have asked time and time again for the reasons of any change in benefits since a new certificate of entitlement is needed to reflect the changes but receive nothing?
  How many people on here have had to asked for a Mandatory Reconsideration when it could have been changed before a Tribunal needs to take place? 

racyguy

Colin123 said:

Another problem I came across recently , claiming for new blue badge as was out of date, The information they ask you to supply s almost as bad as claiming PIP, proof of all disabilities, benefits off PIP and ESA . 2 Proof of address  , Things seem to be getting more demanding... You can see why some people give up. We shouldn't have to go through half of the things we do, there has to be a more simpler way for everything, suffering is enough.

I know exactly where you are coming from. 
I have a BB which is based entirely on my PIP award (High Mobility) yet my wife had to go through endless form filing, obtaining evidence from her GP and Consultants only to find that she had to have a 'walking test' in a multi story car park with an assessor from the Council. Thankfully she received BB but this situation has to happen ever three years! Why? because she left it too late to claim PIP and is currently awarded Attendance Allowance at the highest rate which has no mobility element. 

onebigvoice

Listen I don't want to cause confusion or cause an argument, but again these are my opinions:
  The decision maker deals with numerous cases not only yours or mine.  You would have thought that by now the need to ask for an assessment of a claimant should be clear cut and precise.
1.  You telephone for a form, whether its for a fresh claim, a renewal of an almost expired claim for benefits, or a check that you are in receipt of the correct benefits and that things have not got worse or any better altering your entitlement to benefits.
2,  The telephone interview will assess which of the above forms need to be sent and for what benefit is being claimed, this will be sent out in " due course"
3. you receive the form and fill it in and include, medical evidence, prescription list updates, and support letters from all concerned including family members who look after you, and you sign the form in two places saying that you give permission for DWP/PIP's to use this evidence provided by anyone that they deem able to use it like UC ( 6 benefits into one. )  this includes people who treat you and your bank account.
4.  the decision maker looks at the form and sends a request to Capita-PIP's or Maximus for assessor to look at the information supplied is consistent with the claim for benefits and the problems you have been diagnosed with.  This may also include fresh information and for example operation results and MRI scans. 
5.  the report is written by the assessor and sent to the decision maker for him to make the final decision on your claim.

   Up top 4 every thing is O K. its just when an opinion is used to assess you and then used to remove or reduce your claim for benefits I start to loose the plot.
  If we want to get an assessment right the first time with out the need to FIGHT FOR EVERY CLAIM FOR BENEFITS, then explain to me why the assessor is not help accountable for the reports that they write?
  MY OPINION: if a Health Care Professional assesses me from the NHS that report is show to my Doctor and is on my medical history.  Why are these reports since they are assessing the reports from people that are qualified Professionals who work for the NHS not questioned by the medical Board?
  I know people say its not a medical, so why is there a need to have a small medical at the end?
Why or how does an assessor make an opinion of those reports when he does not have to be trained in that particular medical issue?
  Would my opinion hold as much weight when I have been a First Aider for 40 Years?  I am also a work study engineer and write risk assessments and method statements which are sent to HSE?
  And hold all the necessary certification to be able to do this.
  We need to get the assessment process correct first time as these people are the experts and deal with this every day and on more than one case.
  Together we are not just one person banning on about your particular case we have people with the same problems and the same reports and medical information going in and still scoring zero?
  Why are these reports not bough to the attention of PIP's or DWP?
  Who is really paying the price of all these errors?  WE ARE. 

Ryanna

I had a lot of stress trying to sort out Benefits/Assessments for my husband.  He is unable to use the phone and is stressed receiving post and so I have to do all this on his behalf.

I was phoning up the DWP and Assessments place every day... and posting them evidence from the Dr... every time they kept saying that they had not received the information... even though I'd sent it recorded delivery and someone their end had signed the delivery.

So I ended up photocopying all the documents about ten times and putting all ten copies into the post again.. then phoning up and saying "Have you got it now?" down the phone.

I ended up going to their Complaints Department... whice proved successful as they have to reply to complaints within a certain timeframe, so that got it resolved much faster. Worth knowing this!

It caused ME a huge amount of stress to sort, so I don't know how anyone with severe anxiety is supposed to be able to do this.

poppy123456

onebigvoice said:

  If we want to get an assessment right the first time with out the need to FIGHT FOR EVERY CLAIM FOR BENEFITS, then explain to me why the assessor is not help accountable for the reports that they write?
  MY OPINION: if a Health Care Professional assesses me from the NHS that report is show to my Doctor and is on my medical history.  Why are these reports since they are assessing the reports from people that are qualified Professionals who work for the NHS not questioned by the medical Board?
 

Here we go again!! You like to continue to post these long comments on several threads and we find ourselves going round in circles each time.

Why would anyone want to have their assessment report from a benefit claim on their medical history? PIP is an assessment of your functional needs, it's not a medical and never has been.

Having been through multiple of these assessments myself since 2013, i would not want them on my medical history!

When the report is writen, it's their opinion based on everything you sent and what you said during the assessment. Again this has been said here many many times but you still continue to comment with the same things everytime.

The answer to a successful claim is anecdotal evidence, detailed real world examples. No medical evidence, no letters from GP/Consultants unless they clearly state exactly how your conditions affect you and most don't.

chiarieds

Where to begin,

You say, 'You have hit the nail right on the head.  Assessors are according to there " COMPANY RULES "  are matched up with the claimant that they are assessing.'

No, I said some of us could be waiting a very long time to have an assessor that understood our condition(s). 

You said, 'In my opinion I don't like the going with the flow bit as this does not change the attitude of PIP's or DWP, if you think that then what are you paying for?  A medical Assessment that isn't a medical assessment, that really has already been completed by people that treat you and are qualified to do so.'

You say, 'a medical assessment that isn't a medical assessment,' well that's true, at least an assessment for PIP not being a medical assessment. Has it not repeatedly been mentioned that it's rather a functional assessment? Why? because people with exactly the same disability/disorder will be likely affected differently.

You then say, 'So when giving permission to contact the people you put on the forms that treat you why dont they do that. If they want to form their own opinion of how things affect you daily then contact them not me, because if I knew how to fix me I would not need the NHS or my GP?'

The onus is on the claimant to give any relevant medical info. Your GP, or any specialist you see, will not know the problems you may face dressing, washing, using the bathroom, etc. (which is what the PIP claim form asks), only the claimant. This isn't about how to 'fix' you, & a decision maker does not have to weigh up medical info against either a PIP claim form, nor assessment.

You continue to say, 'What happens if you don't give your permission to access or contact people that treat you?  They say it may take a little longer?  Why because they are still going to assess you and it will still take 20 weeks to get an answer which, let be fair most know will be ZERO anyway.' And your references, statistics on this are?

As to the rest of your comments, HCPs are sufficiently trained to recognise how someone with a certain disability may likely be affected. It's up to them to then form an opinion from what you've detailed in your claim form, & said during your assessment. People are affected so very differently; I knew one tetraplegic whom I helped to walk again....he had been a piano tuner, tho would never do that again. Another tetraplegic was often bed-bound; used a power chair, & went round the ward when he could encouraging younger people. Both lovely people; both so different in their functional abilities.

I shall try to desist from replying further.

onebigvoice

On comment to my opinions:
I would just like to say in defence, since I seem to be fighting the wrong people, but again this is my opinion whether you agree or not.
Why are you still commenting?   @mikehughescq
The rest of your post isn’t worthy of comment. It’s been done to death and if anyones genuinely interested in why it’s nonsense then do a search for me or @onebigvoice when you’re spectacularly bored and have some reading time. 

@poppy123456 Q:  Why would anyone want to have their assessment report from a benefit claim on their medical history?

  Because its an opinion based on my medical history which is used to remove or reduce my access to benefit.  Unlike an assessment or medical assessment completed by a Health Care Professional, that treats me, registered on an appropriate Medical register that can be traced.  The assessment they give ( my HCP ) must know how my conditions affect me daily otherwise how or what are they assessing?  And how do they treat me if they didn't understand what the long term effects of those " conditions " ( more than one ) are or the interaction of the long term taking of tablets or operations are?

Q:  PIP is an assessment of your functional needs, it's not a medical and never has been.

Having been through multiple of these assessments myself since 2013, i would not want them on my medical history!
  This is because they do not understand the implications of the reports that they write, and by the way, I have stated that in order to write into your medical files, as do any one who is a Registered HCP, they must be on an appropriate medical register some where?  Show me one report written by YOUR HCP's that is written correctly and justified and follows the rules of " assessment " in the years since 2013 from either Capita-pip's or Maximus the main assessment companies used by the DWP and PIP's.
  Are you also stating that in your multiple assessments from the assessment companies you have had that they have all been correctly justified and shown where they drew their conclusions from and been signed?

Q:  When the report is writen, it's their opinion based on everything you sent and what you said during the assessment. Again this has been said here many many times but you still continue to comment with the same things everytime.
  And again stated many times one recently that the assessment was nothing like the assessment they attended, most of the questions were not asked but still filled in, or is this part of them being able to form an opinion of some one they have never met?
  The post above stated that nothing that was stated at the assessment was added?  One stated that they did not have an medical history sent as they wanted to form their own opinion of what was said on the forms sent in?  These are just two reasons why you don't want their reports on your medical files.
  I stopped taking tablets when my report stated he was calm and showed no signs of stress or wanting to self harm during the assessment?  Showed this to my doctor who ripped the assessor apart after spending two weeks being sectioned after reading that report? 

Q:  The answer to a successful claim is anecdotal evidence, detailed real world examples. No medical evidence, no letters from GP/Consultants unless they clearly state exactly how your conditions affect you and most don't.

  What is in the medical evidence you send if its not about you?  What is the point of sending in supporting evidence?  There is no " unless they state clear...."  A hospital or MRI scan does this yet, in the opinion of the assessor I had no problems walking getting out of bed, dressing, as I looked well presented, and cook a meal for one safely, when I suffered from a fall ( not only one documented )
 hitting the curb stone with my head, causing concussion and severe lacerations of the head and a nice black eye, I can't stand and cannot cook a meal since just after this I dropped a saucepan full of hot water on my foot, breaking two toes the second toe had to be pinned and was in a foot cast of over 5 weeks which ended up 12 weeks before removing the pin, all documented in the Medical History.  Yet in his opinion, I had no problems?   And also suffer from Lupus, also documented and pictures sent ( with the above ) before the assessment took place.  STILL SPORTING A BLACK EYE AND THE CAST AT THE TIME OF THE ASSESSMENT.
  At the end of the day its still only an opinion?  What do I need to send in as you say, The answer to a successful claim is anecdotal evidence?  As you do not give examples of this?
  Show me what I need to send as Anecdotal evidence, not just state this, as we all want to know, well I certainly do, how to " Improve my chances of success, well not for me but for the people that come to me for help and you state that what I am doing is far from correct and never has been?

Q:  HCPs are sufficiently trained to recognise how someone with a certain disability may likely be affected.   From your post: 
What is a HCP?  A HCP is a Health Care Practitioner?  Well that can't be right since they have not shown where they practice or what register they are on.  The term Health Care does not come into it since they are not their to give a diagnosis.  Yet they look at how your ailment or functional ability affects you daily?  So how do they form their opinions if they have not had the appropriate training?
  If you then look at Practitioner, they also do not show this, as I have stated many times, if on any of the reports you have, actually state what type of assessor they are or where they practice, then show me not just state they are Health Care Practitioners or Assessors with Health Care Practitioner experience?
  Most reports state Nurse, State Registered Nurse, HCP, HP and Senior Disability Analyst, or even Paramedic?  ALL these titles come with a Duty of Care and are registered, unless you do not wish to show your title registration number then sorry you won't be examining me unless my doctor or that person that treats me is present.
  And that my opinion.  I wait to see the documents or Anecdotal evidence you provide to help me and others go forward rather than arguing with the content of my post.  I will continue to post and take the time to write until you prove me wrong by answering my post constructively.  You have shown nothing to support the ability of these assessors to use these titles above?   

vikingqueen

     Wow that is one big rant @onebigvoice.... 

MarkM88

It’s amazing it’s still been allowed with so much incorrect information and inaccuracies within it. 

onebigvoice

Its not a rant its a statement of my opinion.
  All I see is no one willing to show me or answer my questions?
  Are the reports written by the assessors that DWP and PIP's use showing where they get there opinions from? what supporting information they use that would override a doctors report that says I cannot walk yet there opinion says I can?
Or that I can cook when obvious to any one that has read my medical history would know different.
My disabilities have been with me for many years and one doctors report PRIOR to an operation stated that without this operation he will rapidly progress to unable to walk.
  Yet they say nothing wrong with a collapsing spine.  Because they can't see it?  That makes it all better?

vikingqueen

    Sorry I just see a rant because you aren't getting what you want