If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

Access to benefits

Options
onebigvoice
onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
My question is really an observation, so here goes:
  On here I noted that the cost of Disability is an extra £583 compared to an abled bodied or non- restricted earner.  ( by this I mean that s/he needs no adaptions to work. )  My question is if we know this amount then why isn't the government using the same amount to pay those that need help?  And where does this figure come from?
  It just seems strange that everyone knows the "extra costs involved" except the people who assess and remove benefits (DWP)
  
«13

Comments

  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,176 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    Probably from Scope's Home page: https://www.scope.org.uk/

  • MarkM88
    MarkM88 Community member Posts: 3,127 Connected
    Options
    Just to go along with the above link, I believe it’s to do with this - https://www.scope.org.uk/campaigns/extra-costs/
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    While I only posed a question and knew where I got the information from which was from the Scope pages, it was only an observation on my part that with the resources that the government has, and all the "experts" that they have in order to give the disabled and sick the correct assessment first time and access to benefits that they were entitled to, they don't?   
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    On mentioning about trying to get a fair assessment first time and because it was Disability month I saw on here last night a 6 page form about getting you view over, and have till the22nd Feb as far as I can remember, but have lost it.
      When I find it or if someone from ADMIN can repost the link, I believe that every single person on here and anyone who is disabled or has applied for benefits should fill out.
      it asks for the points good and bad about your experience's of what information was given before you applied, applying for the benefit and help given if any, what you think about the forms and how you would change them or were you happy, did you require a M R or Tribunal and how that went, and the results and what you would change?
      I will find the link later unless Admin can help.
    Thanks for any help.
  • Spoonbill
    Spoonbill Community member Posts: 70 Courageous
    Options
    ...why isn't the government using the same amount to pay those that need help?...
    It just seems strange that everyone knows the "extra costs involved" except the people who assess and remove benefits (DWP)
      
    :# In a functioning social system, those would indeed be reasonable questions, my friend. Not sure of the politics around here...but IMHO, "austerity" is the biggest push factor (in this and many other questions of social decline).
    I'm resisting the temptation to rant about democracy, but let's just say many organisations are campaigning in various ways to try to make things more equitable for disabled people and so many other disadvantaged people.
  • Spoonbill
    Spoonbill Community member Posts: 70 Courageous
    Options
    Hi @Username_removed Forgive me, but I don't think I've heard that position before - it would be great if you could explain further so I might understand? (It's also possible we agree but are talking at cross-purposes.)
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    The whole “extra costs of disability” thing is a scam and buying into it potentially dangerous. The issue never arose until multiple justifications were needed for the moved room DLA to PIP. AA and MA were never about the extra costs of disability and in reality nor is PIP despite constant assertions to that effect. There is no tangible extra cost if you struggle to socially engage for example. Basing disability benefits on the extra costs of disability is hugely reductive. That is not and never was what disability benefits were for and going forward nor should it be. 
      So since Scope and other organisations are striving to better the conditions of the disabled whether by asking people to contact their M P's in a zoom meeting arranged for 18th Jan 2022 is not justified and never should be in a way to fight back?
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
      So since Scope and other organisations are striving to better the conditions of the disabled whether by asking people to contact their M P's in a zoom meeting arranged for 18th Jan 2022 is not justified and never should be in a way to fight back?
    Can’t see how anybody could reach that conclusion based on what Mike wrote.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    @mikehughescq, thank you for that explanation which has now simplified every thing and makes more sense to me.
      I am sorry if I come across as confrontational it is not my intention to do so to you or any of the members that quote on my posts.  I hate grey areas, and to be quite honest we are all fighting for the same thing here.  An assessment that is correct the first time, and why should we not have it?  Since the DWP are using a system of assessment that requires a F 2 F or paper or any type of assessment on the phone to name some things used then lets get that right first so that there is no arguments as to I said, you put, that's not right, etc etc.  We don't have this with the NHS so why must we have this with them, always expecting the worse, or 40 page forms for access to benefits, most of the information is already on file and trying to change that information when winning a Tribunal is almost impossible, as the incorrect information is sent to them in closing down your listing.
      Saying we have made a more favourable offer explains nothing to the claimant neither does not answering bullet points or directional notices from the Tribunal and still using the above to remove the listing.
      Thank you again as said.
  • Spoonbill
    Spoonbill Community member Posts: 70 Courageous
    Options
    Thanks @Username_removed I see a lot better now, and am grateful for your explanation. I'd maintain that the lack of adaptation by society and lack of public resources forces unique costs onto the individual (transport, food, equipment, services etc.), but I see your focus on how we're disabled out of getting the means for survival through an essentially ableist economy, and how just looking at costs can support a punitive system.
    I'm cynical enough to believe that either way of looking can be twisted by those without the understanding & will, and the power to spin things in an ableist fashion - e.g. a politician can argue that things like the DDA mean that there's now equal opportunity for all - you and I know that's palpable nonsense but it's a comforting story easily accepted to keep things unequal.
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    @Username_removed I agree 110% with what you have stated, and am not trying to start a fan club, but as I have stated different comments and opinions are how I can go forward.
      Not to change the subject at a Tribunal 6 bullet points were aimed at the Secretary of State and given 10 days to answer, they did not, when asking the Tribunal Service why?  they gave another one month extension.  That was March 2020.  numerous calls to the court and to PIP's and a call back arranged last Thursday, 24 to 48 hours, they rang today Friday today.  In agreeing with every thing I said and asking what they used to remove the listing or not answer the courts they said we do not supply any of the documents they gave the court?  Rang the courts they sent a note saying we have made a revised offer you can close the claim down.  The Tribunal says go back to the DWP and DWP say see the submission.  The submission was sent 22nd Sept 2020. can I say this is a legal document and enforce it?  (Tribunal )
      You have to ask the DWP?  So not only attaching the wrong medical notes to my file, re-writing pages of forms and fudging my signature no one can tell me if the documents sent are legal.
      I bet they are legal if I owed them money?
      Sorry to have a rant here but they are seriously doing my head in.  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 57,181 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    I don’t know why you keep insisting it’s a court, it’s not, it’s a Tribunal! 
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    Its only my terminology.  I would have thought that you got the jist of what I meant?

      This was meant for ADMIN first but maybe you can give your opinion on this:
    If you do not wish to receive emails about the Commission on Social Security please reply to this message and include the word 'unsubscribe'

    Hi

    After three years' hard work, two large scale consultation exercises, countless workshops, and lots more besides, the Commission on Social Security led by Experts by Experience is ready to launch its Plan for a decent social security system.

    The aim was to have a major in person launch event but Omicron means that can't go ahead. 

    Commissioners are still keen, however, to share their proposals. Therefore:
    The Plan is in an Easy Read document. Alongside it there will be: 
    • A pre-recorded Questions and Answers interview between Commission Co-chair, Ellen Morrison, and Dr Kate Summers who is a British Academy Fellow in the Methodology Department at the London School of Economics (the recording has British Sign Language interpretation and captions).
    • An audio version of The Plan, read by Commissioners.
    • A full project report.
    So, make a diary note!  26 January 2pm visit www.CommissionOnSocialSecurity.org.

    Any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Regards,


    Michael


      This being one of three invitation today, there is also another with a different group and Scope on or round the 18th Jan, and another with MP's in Cardiff and the First Minister along with the Health Minister for Wales Mrs E Morgan, to be arranged with Stephen Doughty MP hopefully Tuesday.

      Simplify the process by simplifying the paperwork for a start. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 12,124 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    Coming late as I do to this thread/conversation I would point out that not everybody experience of applying for benefits is a bad experience.
    Over the last 24 years, I have applied for in no particular order, Family income supplement, income support, incapacity benefit, DLA, PIP and ESA. And following every application I have received an award equal to or better to what I was expecting.
    Was I just lucky? My answer to that has to be no I wasn't even before the days of wide use of the internet I did my research as best I could, sought and took advice from wherever it might be avaliable and ensured I completed applications to the best of my ability.
    When we talk about access to benefits that for me is what it all comes down to, far to often sadly we see examples here and in other places of people seeking help not before the application process or even during but AFTER when it's too late.
    So if I have a pearl of wisdom it would be if you wish to access benefits of any kind you seek advice and guidance at the start of the process.

    2024 Election won

  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2022
    Options
    woodbine said:
    So if I have a pearl of wisdom it would be if you wish to access benefits of any kind you seek advice and guidance at the start of the process.
    I agree but many people are not so well organised. 

    One thing that I find deeply depressing is the number of people who run down any savings they have managed to accumulate before looking into benefits which sometimes means it is too late to claim contribution based benefits and they have often missed out on significant amounts of means tested benefits.

    Many people assume that the state will tell them what they are entitled to and don’t realise that the system is fragmented and that DWP will not advise them. Numerous threads on the forum include people who are not getting everything they are entitled to (including the amazing case of an OP who got over £40,000 of arrears after getting advice on this forum as well as a greatly increased monthly ongoing payment).
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • onebigvoice
    onebigvoice Scope Member Posts: 766 Pioneering
    Options
    My comments on the post is only to raise awareness.   If you wish to vote, join or send your e mail to your MP to let him know what you think is also a personal opinion.
      This is why we have a democratic view.  I'm not asking you to jump on my band wagon or that of Scope or anyone elses, just my point of view?
  • racyguy
    racyguy Community member Posts: 560 Pioneering
    Options
    Thanks Mike for explaining the 'shady' side of benefits and especially PIP.
    I for one have always wondered how the government ever came to set the levels of payment in respect of PIP. Reading all of the posts it seems to me that there is no explanation of how the £89.60 weekly payment of the care element came about. 
    I have been assessed and have been awarded both the enhanced rates of care and mobility for 10 years.
    Thinking long and hard into this I cannot identify how with both these payments my income/standard of living can be enhanced up to that of a non disabled person.
    In conclusion the only answer I can come up with is that the figures were dreamt up over afternoon tea in the House of Commons and to ensure the the costs of operating the PIP system are as low as they can be simply by giving everybody the same figure whether they need it or not.
    The same incidentally can be said for contribution based ESA - why is it being paid to everyone at the same rate ignoring the fact that many claimants also receive their full salary from their employer for at least 6 months? 
    Presumably a means tested system is required that will no doubt save money from the public purse and guarantee that enhanced/increased benefit payments are only made to those who need it?


  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    racyguy said:
    The same incidentally can be said for contribution based ESA - why is it being paid to everyone at the same rate ignoring the fact that many claimants also receive their full salary from their employer for at least 6 months? 
    Because it's not means tested. It's paid at a standard rate in the same way that State Pension is paid regardless of other income or capital recipients may have. Entitlement is based on NI contributions.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 12,124 Disability Gamechanger
    Options
    When I transferred from DLA to PIP I ended up £40 a week better off, re: odd amounts it must be remembered that they increase by odd amounts year on year.

    2024 Election won

  • racyguy
    racyguy Community member Posts: 560 Pioneering
    Options
    calcotti said:

    Because it's not means tested. It's paid at a standard rate in the same way that State Pension is paid regardless of other income or capital recipients may have. Entitlement is based on NI contributions.
    Taking contribution based ESA for example it is means tested to some extent.
    Any private pension income over £85 per week causes ESA to be reduced by 50p for every £1 over £85. Continuing to receive full pay whilst off sick does not affect the ESA payment.
    And what I have always had difficulty in understanding is that DLA/PIP is non taxable, is not affected by capital held nor is it affected if the claimant has little or no extra expense because of that disability.
    Someone who continues to work full time on say a salary of £100,000 (entirely legal and I am aware of some that earn this level of income and more), that have a PIP award of enhanced care & mobility and have capital invested in 6 figures along with no extra expense  because of that disability  still enter into a Motability contract for a second car that is used only for shopping, going to the cinema/theatre etc to avoid congestion and parking charges.
    It should be the case that the DWP look at the overall picture of the claimant as well as his/her spouse when awarding PIP as well as ESA.  
Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.

Do you need advice on your energy costs?


Scope’s Disability Energy Support service is open to any disabled household in England or Wales in which one or more disabled people live. You can get free advice from an expert adviser on managing energy debt, switching tariffs, contacting your supplier and more. Find out more information by visiting our
Disability Energy Support webpage.
If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.