Do you need to get the child element for a child to get the disabled child element for them?

jingle

Do you need to get the child element for a child to get the disabled child element for them if they get DLA?

calcotti

I assume the situation is that you have a third child born after April 2017 and therefore do not get the child element from them. You will have declared them on your claim so they are included but you simply do not get any extra money for them.
You can receive the relevant disabled child element for them even though you are not getting the 'basic' child element for them.
ADM chapter F1: Child element (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Disabled child addition
F1120 In addition to the child element described at F1055, a further amount is included in the calculation of the UC maximum amount for each child or qualifying young person who is disabled. This will be awarded at either a lower or a higher rate. If a child element is not in payment for a child or qualifying young person solely because of the two child limit (F1004), a disabled child addition can be paid for that child or qualifying young person.

jingle

I am more confused now sorry. I was asking for my 15 year old but now I think they are paying wrong for my triplets aswell. Can I tell my situation so you can see what is correct? 

I have 15 year old child who is disabled and 4 year old triplets, 2 of which are blind and I work 20 hours a week. 

On my claim I get single standard, 2 child elements and 2 disable child elements and 3 bedroom house allowance. 

 All of my children get DLA

My 15 year old gets high DLA he is non verbal and use wheelchair, my triplets are all disabled and 2 are certify blind and all three get low or middle DLA. 

My 15 child can’t cope with school any more so LA agree he can be home educated and send a tutor to help.

When I update my universal claim they said I can not get child element for him any more and have to remove him from my claim and can not get disable child for him. 

Then they added my second triplet instead so I still get 2 child element and 2 low disabled elements but it is less because they get only low DLA. I wondered if I can still get disabled child element for my 15 year old even if I don’t get child element and from what you said should I be getting it for the triplets?

calcotti

That looks completely wrong.
I can't see why they would say they cannot pay child element for the 15 year old. He remains a child for UC until he reaches 16 and is then a Qualifying Young Person until 31st August following his birthday. Presumably you still get Child Benefit for him. 

The advice I referenced earlier was from DWP guidance documents. The public website puts it more simply
https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/what-youll-get

You’ll get an extra amount for any disabled or severely disabled child - no matter how many children you have or when they were born.

In any case there are exceptions to the two child rule for multiple births.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/schedule/12

You need to challenge this.

I think you should be getting

• four child elements.
• Higher disabled child element for your 15 year old
• higher disabled child element for both triplets who are certified blind, and
• either the higher or lower disabled child rate for the third triplet depending on whether they get middle or lower rate DLA Care

You will lose the elements for your oldest from the 1st September following his 16th birthday (but I think he is then eligible to be a separate UC claimant himself - with you acting as his appointee if necessary).

I can't imagine how you deal with the demands that must be placed on you - you really don't need being underpaid by UC adding to your difficulties.

jingle

They said if he is not in education as teenager he is not qualifying young person, I explained he is educating at home and it is supported by the La but they said it doesn’t count so removed him from my claim.

If they haven’t been paying for the triplets when they should will they backdate this money or will it be lost now? 

Also I want to drop my hours to 15 now my eldest is at home but they said I will be sanctioned because I’m not a carer so have to work but they won’t let me get carer element until I work less than 16 hours, so how can I be a carer if I’m not allowed to work less hours? 

My two boys that are blind get middle care DLA so I don’t think they can get higher disabled child element but I will ask about the rest thank you very much 

poppy123456

If they owe you money for the child element then it should be backdated. I don't understand why you're not receiving it anyway.

Claiming the carers element has nothing to do with the hours you work. Report the changes onto your journal and tell them that you care for one of children and you would like the carers element to be added to your claim. You will have no work commitments if you're claiming this.

Carers Allowance has earnings limits but you don't need to claim Carers allowance to be able to claim carers element.

calcotti

jingle said:

They said if he is not in education as teenager he is not qualifying young person

That is irrelevant. If he is 15 he is a child. The QYP rules only apply when he reaches 16. Once he reaches 16 I am not sure about home education even if supported by LA, I think Uc may be correct.

jingle said: If they haven’t been paying for the triplets when they should will they backdate this money or will it be lost now? 

They should an 'any time revision' and correct the claim from birth because they have made an error. That is what you should ask for.

jingle said:.. they won’t let me get carer element until I work less than 16 hours

That is completely wrong too. There are no restrictions on receipt of the carer element. If you care 35 hours/week for a disabled person/child you are entitled to the carer element and that should also be included in your UC entitlement (assuming you are not getting LCWRA yourself) and, as a carer, you have no work related responsibilities and they therefore cannot sanction you for reducing your hours. The carer element would have been available to you ever since any child was receiving at least middle rate care DLA (assuming nobody else was being treated as their carer).

jingle said: My two boys that are blind get middle care DLA so I don’t think they can get higher disabled child element 

The higher are child element is payable for child who are blind.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/24

It sounds as if your award is fundamentally flawed in numerous ways  You may wish to see if there is a local advice agency atet can help you unpick it. https://advicelocal.uk

[EDIT: cross posted with poppy - I started this reply and then got called away for bit.]

calcotti

If you previously told them that you were a carer and they wrongly advised you that you were not entitled to the carer element you may be able to get it backdated.

jingle

I’m trying to take all this in but it is opposite to what Universal are telling me so I’m very sorry I am confused
I claimed uc in February 2019 after my fiance died as he was the main earner and we hadn’t claimed benefits before except we were already getting DLA for all 4 children and I have been claiming universal since. I don’t know if that is what makes things different?
When I claimed I listed all of my children and said I was a carer for them but a lady put in my journal that because I worked I couldn’t be a carer and cancelled it from my claim and that I can’t be paid for more than 2 children at all.
I just tried to ring them and they said I shouldn’t listen to people off the internet and that you can’t be paid for more than 2 children and to put a note in my journal to ask about my 15 year old. 

Maybe the rules changed?

calcotti

jingle said: I claimed uc in February 2019 after my fiance died as he was the main earner and we hadn’t claimed benefits before except we were already getting DLA for all 4 children and I have been claiming universal since. I don’t know if that is what makes things different?

I don't think so.

jingle said: When I claimed I listed all of my children and said I was a carer for them but a lady put in my journal that because I worked I couldn’t be a carer 

That is completely wrong - no such rule has ever existed.

jingle said:..a lady put in my journal that .. I can’t be paid for more than 2 children at all.

That is also wrong.

jingle said:

I’m trying to take all this in but it is opposite to what Universal are telling me so I’m very sorry I am confused

Which is why I think it may be helpful to get support from an advice agency to help you navigate this. I think your UC claim

I cannot begin to imagine the stress you have been through over the last few years and I am shocked (but sadly not completely surprised) that UC appear to have messed up your claim so badly.

calcotti

What level of DLA does your third triplet (the one who is not blind) get?

jingle

She receives low care only at the moment but I think this may increase at her next review as she has peg tube is non-verbal and has adhd and autism

Thank you for your kind words, it has been the hardest few years of my life and constant fights with universal have not helped lol. My children keep me busy so don’t have time to dwell on things which is good and I’m lucky my parents and friends are so supportive and my dad sends me money to help with rent 

calcotti

Families with more than 2 children: claiming benefits - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Multiple birth
You can get extra Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit for your third and subsequent children if they’re born as part of a multiple birth, apart from one child in that birth. This means the exception applies to the additional children in that birth.

Where the first child of the multiple birth is either the first or second child in the household, we’ll pay a child amount for all the children born as part of the multiple birth. This means you can get an additional amount for that child (the first child) as well as the other child or children of the multiple birth.

Note that if you challenge your award and UC do correct it they will recalculate your UC entitlement for all of the months that are affected. The new calculations will overwrite the existing statements on your journal. You may therefore wish to download all of your statements so that you still have a record of the old calculations in case you need to compare them.

Adrian_Scope

jingle said:

On my claim I get single standard, 2 child elements and 2 disable child elements and 3 bedroom house allowance. 

Hi @jingle. I can see @calcotti and @poppy123456 are doing an amazing job answering your queries so far but I'm just wondering about your bedroom entitlement. Am I right to assume you're in private rented accommodation? If so, could I ask what sex your children are and whether any of them are unable to share a bedroom? While you're correcting your claim I just want to make sure you're receiving the correct housing element. 

poppy123456

Having just read through all of the thread to catch up on the advice given by @calcotti, which as always is brilliant.

I can't believe how incredibiliy sad this situation is and the bad advice that's been given by DWP/UC. It just makes me wonder exactly how many people out there aren't receiving the right amount of money, even when they're claiming the benefits.

calcotti

Adrian_Scope said:..could I ask what sex your children are and whether any of them are unable to share a bedroom? While you're correcting your claim I just want to make sure you're receiving the correct housing element. 

Adrian raises an important point because even if correct now (which it will be if at least one of the triplets is male) you will become entitled to an extra bedroom when your 15 year old turns 16 at which age he will be entitled to have his own bedroom. When he turns 16 you should highlight this to UC and ask them to increase the housing element. Note that when calculating UC entitlement it doesn't matter how many bedrooms you actually have.

jingle

I’m in a 4/5 bedroom house and have 3 sons and a daughter, my 15 year old uses the dining room downstairs which we made into a bedroom, 2 younger sons have a room and my daughter in another, then my room and the 4th bedroom my friends stay in a few nights each week when they stay to help  

Can someone explain the date in calcotti link if they are born on or after 6th April you don’t get paid but before you do? 

calcotti

jingle said:

I’m in a 4/5 bedroom house and have 3 sons and a daughter, my 15 year old uses the dining room downstairs which we made into a bedroom, 2 younger sons have a room and my daughter in another, then my room and the 4th bedroom my friends stay in a few nights each week when they stay to help  

Can someone explain the date in calcotti link if they are born on or after 6th April you don’t get paid but before you do? 

That's probably not relevant to you - I am assuming your triplets were born after 6th April 2017 (although I realise they could have been born before). Perhaps you can confirm - my advice so far has assumed born after April 2017, it will be different if the were born before (although the outcome will be the same).

There was a change in the rules from that date.
A claimant is entitled to the child element for all children born before then regardless of how many.
A claimant generally only gets the child element for a maximum of two children if the third or subsequent children were born after that date. However there are exceptions and one of these is for children born as part of a multiple birth which is the exception that applies to you.

jingle I have sent you a pm

calcotti

poppy123456 said:..It just makes me wonder exactly how many people out there aren't receiving the right amount of money, even when they're claiming the benefits.

Exactly so - most claimants do not know their entitlement so will assume DWP have it right. Unfortunately it seems to be getting worse at the moment.

jingle

I wouldn’t know there was problems with mine if it wasn’t for querying about my 15 year old with you lot. I’ve been claiming for years and didn’t know anything was wrong as I thought they would know the right things and would do it correctly. How many others will be the same is scary to think about. Thank you all for helping me especially calcotti I will tell you if I hear anything 

calcotti

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