Permitted Work: What happens when I'm migrated from Contribution Based ESA to UC?

RenabledStu

Hi I currently work up to 16hrs a week under Permitted Work.

I'm dreading being moved to UC as some searching online reveals UC doesn't have a Permitted Work scheme, just that you're "encouraged" to work.

How will this affect me?

Thanks

poppy123456

As advised by calcotti on this thread here https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/88484/is-anyone-doing-permitted-work#latest

Those on CB based ESA will not be moved to UC because it's not part of UC.

Incase anyone else see this, those that claim UC and have LCWRA/LCW or have children on their claim will have a work allowance, which means part of your earnings are ignored before the deductions apply. If you claim for help with the rent your work allowance will be £337 per month, if you don't it will be £557 per month. Work allowance increases slightly each April. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-work-allowances/universal-credit-work-allowances

For permitted work with ESA it is less than 16 hours per week, not up to 16 hours.

RenabledStu

Thanks for the info. So as I've no kids, and I live with my partner that works and owns the house (ie I pay no rent but do contribute 50% of the bills and her mortgage) would I be better off on UC? Not sure I follow on your 16 hours peer week stipulation. They both look identical to me and my zero hour contract is for "up to" 16 hours a week.

calcotti

RenabledStu said:

..would I be better off on UC? 

If you have no income based entitlement then no. You can use a benefits calculator to check but in all likelihood there would be no UC entitlement.
https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators
Entitlement is based on your joint circumstances (and you both have to claim) so your joint savings and your husband's income is taken into account. If you have savings of more than £16,000 then you cannot claim UC.

RenabledStu said:

Not sure I follow on your 16 hours peer week stipulation. They both look identical to me and my zero hour contract is for "up to" 16 hours a week.

They are not identical. If you were to work for 16 hours then that exceeds the Permitted Work rules of less than 16 hours and ESA entitlement would end.
15.9 hours is OK, 16 hours is not.

RenabledStu

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind if they question my wage slips that say 16 hours. I'll say it's rounded from 15.99999999999999999999

calcotti

RenabledStu said:

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind if they question my wage slips that say 16 hours. I'll say it's rounded from 15.99999999999999999999

You really don't want wageslips showing 16 hours/week. If DWP see these in the future they will say that you were not entitled to ESA and you will be expected to pay them back.

RenabledStu

It's neither here nor there since my payslips are monthly, but I'd love to see a link to someone that got knocked off for doing exactly 16 hours a week as it seems easily defensible at a tribunal.

poppy123456

It clearly states it must be less than 16 hours per week on the gov.uk website.

Permitted work lets you:

• work for less than 16 hours each week
• earn up to £143 every week after tax
• receive your normal amount of benefit

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet

RenabledStu

poppy123456 said:

It clearly states it must be less than 16 hours per week on the gov.uk website.

Permitted work lets you:

• work for less than 16 hours each week
• earn up to £143 every week after tax
• receive your normal amount of benefit

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet

16 hours at 8.91 is £142.56 so all good then.

calcotti

RenabledStu said:

poppy123456 said:

It clearly states it must be less than 16 hours per week on the gov.uk website.

Permitted work lets you:

• work for less than 16 hours each week
• earn up to £143 every week after tax
• receive your normal amount of benefit

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet

16 hours at 8.91 is £142.56 so all good then.

It's not 16 hours OR up to £143, it's less than 16 hours AND up to £143.
Working 16 hours at £5/hour would still fail the Permitted Work test.

As you say, if the hours you work are not stated you're fine but if they are stated anything over 63.3 hours/month fails the test.

RenabledStu

Whether I do one hour a week at £142.56 an hour, or 15.9999 at 8.91 is irrelevant when the wage slips never show the hours worked. Just a total, NI, Tax and NET.

Has anyone here been thrown off ESA for a rounding error to 16 hours exactly?

poppy123456

RenabledStu said:

Whether I do one hour a week at £142.56 an hour, or 15.9999 at 8.91 is irrelevant when the wage slips never show the hours worked. Just a total, NI, Tax and NET.

That's different to what you said here.

RenabledStu said:

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind if they question my wage slips that say 16 hours. I'll say it's rounded from 15.99999999999999999999

RenabledStu

I meant on my time sheets.

Wow the pedantry on this site. Think I'll go elsewhere

poppy123456

To be fair there’s a difference in keeping your ESA when working less than 16 hours or losing it if you do 16 hours. It wouldn’t be right if we gave incorrect advice would it.