Council Tax Rebate for those on Guaranteed Pension Credit

ShirleyW

I only said what had happened to me when I completed the direct debit mandate.  My Council sent a letter confirming the details,  if they were incorrect I was to let them know.  Approximately 10 days later the money landed in my bank.

I'm not saying it's easy for everyone but it was for me.

I think you are making things over difficult.   Most people can complete their bank details for a direct debit mandate and if not they have friends or family to help them.

I'm not talking about filling in lots of forms or providing evidence.  

racyguy

woodbine said:

I don't like asking this but do you have a link to support these figures? Non of the figures you quote make much sense if I'm honest, but I maybe wrong so if you could I'd be grateful @racyguy

These were the figures relating to the SMI uptake. In fact I was far too generous with my estimate - 77% refused the offer - and as for the estimated take up of the Council Tax rebate - I have already posted the official details from the UK Audit Office above.

Communication with claimants and decisions on taking up an SMI loan
		Latest figures
		(cumulative)
		5 August 2020
		Count	%
Claimants eligible for SMI
Letter sent and contact by phone completed		102,000	100%
Letter sent and contact attempted by phone		200	<1%
Letter sent, no contact attempted by phone		30	<1%
Total		103,000	100%
Of claimants where contact completed
Declined the loan		79,000	77%
Undecided on intention		2,000	2%
Accepted or intending to accept a loan		22,000	21%
Total		102,000	100%
Of those claimants who accepted or are intending to accept a loan
Signed and returned agreement to an SMI loan		21,000	96%
Agreed in principle to an SMI loan		1,000	4%
Total		22,000	100%

racyguy

ShirleyW said:

I only said what had happened to me when I completed the direct debit mandate.  My Council sent a letter confirming the details,  if they were incorrect I was to let them know.  Approximately 10 days later the money landed in my bank.

I'm not saying it's easy for everyone but it was for me.

I think you are making things over difficult.   Most people can complete their bank details for a direct debit mandate and if not they have friends or family to help them.

I'm not talking about filling in lots of forms or providing evidence.  

I just find it a little weird that you completed a Direct Debit form for nil payment as you had no CT liability and your council who could not act on it, accepted it as good evidence.

MarkM88

racyguy said:

I just find it a little weird that you completed a Direct Debit form for nil payment as you had no CT liability and your council who could not act on it, accepted it as good evidence.

Why not? 

They completed a DD form, there was no liability to take any payments and used the banking details to pay the £150. 

Someone that hasn’t got a DD set up will be expedited to complete a form of such and confirm banking details, these are what will be used to send the £150. 

What’s the difference? 

racyguy

MarkM88 said

Why not? 

They completed a DD form, there was no liability to take any payments and used the banking details to pay the £150. 

Someone that hasn’t got a DD set up will be expedited to complete a form of such and confirm banking details, these are what will be used to send the £150. 

What’s the difference? 

The difference is that by the council waiting for the 1st instalment of the 22/23 CT liability to be paid via a DD is evidence enough that the bank account is correct etc and belongs to the correct person.

Basically filling out a blank DD where the council cannot check it's validity and accepting it as good evidence suggests to a sloppy attitude by the council.

MarkM88

But the council will do exactly the same if you are in credit and choose to be paid direct to your bank or in this instance to people that don’t have a DD set up and will have to ask people to provide there bank details. They will just send it and the responsibility is on you to provide the correct details. 

Same thing. 

Your making a big deal where it’s not needed. 

ShirleyW

@racyguy I don't think it's wierd of my Council at all, nor is it sloppy.

I filled in a direct debit mandate quoting my Council tax reference number.  The names on the bank account match the names on our Pension Credit and our Council Tax Relief claims. The address the bank holds matches the names and address on our Council Tax bill.

They sent a letter addressed to us at that address confirming the details.   What more do you want?  🤔  

You are being awkward and obstructive.   I am pleased that my Council acted I  such an efficient way.

woodbine

Checked our council website and they will only allow bank details via their website when they get round to those who don't pay by DD as they say any other method won't bed secure.
Re SMI loan take up your figures are out of date, but never mind.

racyguy

woodbine said:

Checked our council website and they will only allow bank details via their website when they get round to those who don't pay by DD as they say any other method won't bed secure.
Re SMI loan take up your figures are out of date, but never mind.

So glad that your council is taking action to ensure that the info supplied by the claimant can and will be verified by the bank concerned. Filling out a blank DD for £0  and expecting the council to accept it in good faith is really bad policy. Where is the oversight and evidence that the council must carry out to cross check the info supplied with the relevant bank? They should not just accept that the claimant is telling the truth. Look where that has got us with the amount of fraud that was carried out on the money handed over during the lockdown - very little evidence was asked for - money was flying out of the window for all. Now they are trying to recover it.

racyguy

woodbine said:

Re SMI loan take up your figures are out of date, but never mind.

Info from the government is only available up to late 2021. They assume that from that date very few claims to change to SMI will be made. I can;t access the 2021 info as the government website is down. As soon as it opens again no doubt it will continue to show very poor take up - this surprised the DWP no end.
When you have the DWP asking people  to claim something a good percentage will always refuse to do so - look at the Pension Credit shambles even today they are continuing to try to put pressure on people to make a claim - what 19 years since it started!!

woodbine

@racyguy sorry but you seem intent on creating mountains out of molehills. 

Ross_Alumni

Evening all. Just wanted to step in here and issue a gentle reminder to ensure that we respect the views and suggestions of other members and consider how the words we say might come across. it's absolutely fine to disagree and debate is healthy, but let's ensure we continue to do that in the right way  

Thanks for starting this thread racyguy, I've found the contributions from members really interesting to read.

racyguy

Ross_Scope said:

Evening all. Just wanted to step in here and issue a gentle reminder to ensure that we respect the views and suggestions of other members and consider how the words we say might come across. it's absolutely fine to disagree and debate is healthy, but let's ensure we continue to do that in the right way  

Thanks for starting this thread racyguy, I've found the contributions from members really interesting to read.

For those claiming guarantee pension credit must be made aware that if and when asked to apply for the £150 they must claim it otherwise it will be loaded as a credit to their CT for which there would be no liability.
Saddened that for this category of persons neither the government or the councils' seemingly don't want to be proactive with people who don't make a claim when asked to do so.

woodbine

As I understand it, those who pay by DD will have the £150 paid to their bank account sometime this summer, once this is underway those who don't have a DD set up will be directed to a webpage where they can safely and securely provide details of the bank account they want the rebate to be paid into.
If you fall into the second category you can decide to claim or not to claim.

MarkM88

I think lots of places are well ahead though. My LA have completed paying people who pay by DD and have set a deadline of 10 June to apply for the £150. 

After that it’s credited to CT account. 

That doesn’t mean people will lose out because even if they have no liability and it’s set as £0, it would show a credit of £150 and you can still ask for it to be paid. 

calcotti

racyguy said:

Saddened that for this category of persons neither the government or the councils' seemingly don't want to be proactive with people who don't make a claim when asked to do so.

There is no evidence to support that assumption. Most local authorities are just setting up the processes to get the £150 to those with DDs set up. We don’t yet know what processes they will use to advertise the scheme or to contact people. (I dare say some local authorities will make more effort than others.)

There isn’t really a role for government in this. Local authorities know who is liable but has not been paid the £150 through DD, government don’t.

racyguy

woodbine said:

As I understand it, those who pay by DD will have the £150 paid to their bank account sometime this summer, once this is underway those who don't have a DD set up will be directed to a webpage where they can safely and securely provide details of the bank account they want the rebate to be paid into.
If you fall into the second category you can decide to claim or not to claim.

Absolutely and that relates to all GPC claimants who must claim as they have no CT liability and hence no requirement to set up a DD.
For that sector the government has been made aware that at least 20% will not make a claim for whatever reason. Their £150 is likely to then be credited to a non existing liable CT account. 
I wonder what processes are in place to refund that CT overpayment without making a claim for it.

racyguy

MarkM88 said:

I think lots of places are well ahead though. My LA have completed paying people who pay by DD and have set a deadline of 10 June to apply for the £150. 

After that it’s credited to CT account. 

That doesn’t mean people will lose out because even if they have no liability and it’s set as £0, it would show a credit of £150 and you can still ask for it to be paid. 

I agree, but it will be almost a certainty that if they haven't claimed it in the first plce and it is put as a credit in the CT account do you really think that they will claim it then?

racyguy

calcotti said:

racyguy said:

Saddened that for this category of persons neither the government or the councils' seemingly don't want to be proactive with people who don't make a claim when asked to do so.

There is no evidence to support that assumption. Most local authorities are just setting up the processes to get the £150 to those with DDs set up. We don’t yet know what processes they will use to advertise the scheme or to contact people. (I dare say some local authorities will make more effort than others.)

There isn’t really a role for government in this. Local authorities know who is liable but has not been paid the £150 through DD, government don’t.

Yes the LA will know who is entitled but the question I ask is for that 20% that don't make a claim and other than credit it to non existent CT account what do you think they should do to get this money to them. Or should we just shrug our shoulders and say tough luck. 

MarkM88

racyguy said:

MarkM88 said:

I think lots of places are well ahead though. My LA have completed paying people who pay by DD and have set a deadline of 10 June to apply for the £150. 

After that it’s credited to CT account. 

That doesn’t mean people will lose out because even if they have no liability and it’s set as £0, it would show a credit of £150 and you can still ask for it to be paid. 

I agree, but it will be almost a certainty that if they haven't claimed it in the first plce and it is put as a credit in the CT account do you really think that they will claim it then?

Yes why wouldn’t they?