Council Tax Rebate for those on Guaranteed Pension Credit

racyguy

Nosing around the criteria for the above refund, I have noticed that for those claiming GPC who would automatically get 100% Council Tax Support (thus nothing to pay) could not have their £150 being sent direct to their bank as they would have no need to have a DD in place. 
Then I read that the following:

Getting the money to council taxpayers without direct debit arrangements takes longer, according to the Local Government Association (LGA), as councils will need to attempt to contact them about the rebate scheme and undertake pre-payment checks.

The Independent Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) warned that could only be an 80 per cent take up rate among those that do not pay via direct debit.

This is why people were urged to ensure that they switched to direct debit so that they could be paid as promptly as possible in the weeks leading up to April.

The Government are seemingly accepting that for that category of people (GPC claimants) only up to 80% will claim the £150.
Given that up to 1.5m are claiming GPC, that would mean that the poorest in society -pensioners living on low income - some 300,000 claimants would not receive this help.

Seems to me that only those pensioners that have a good income thereby not being eligible to claim GPC and pay Council Tax are guaranteed to get the £150. 

calcotti

racyguy said: Seems to me that only those pensioners that have a good income thereby not being eligible to claim GPC and pay Council Tax are guaranteed to get the £150. 

That is true. It's simply a practical issue. Everybody meeting the conditions will however be eligible. It is unfortunate that those who might not claim are likely to be those most in need most in need. I think my local authority is going to publicise the scheme e but I don't know how they indeed to do this.

MarkM88

My LA has just announced that if they can’t send the payment via DD which was to be completed on the 13th and people who don’t have a DD don’t claim through the application process that opens on Monday by a date in June, they are going to apply the £150 from your council tax bill. 

racyguy

MarkM88 said:

My LA has just announced that if they can’t send the payment via DD which was to be completed on the 13th and people who don’t have a DD don’t claim through the application process that opens on Monday by a date in June, they are going to apply the £150 from your council tax bill. 

Yes that is the default position. But I was making the point that a GPC claimant will not be liable to pay any CT ( they get a 100% CT benefit) it is highly unlikely that they will have any DD in place. There is no need for them to do so. And if the default happens, if they do not make an application, the £150 will just sit there as a credit and presumably be carried forward into forthcoming years in the hope that sometime in the future they may become liable to CT and have the credited applied then.

MarkM88

If there is a credit they can then ask for a refund. 

calcotti

MarkM88 said:

My LA has just announced that if they can’t send the payment via DD which was to be completed on the 13th and people who don’t have a DD don’t claim through the application process that opens on Monday by a date in June, they are going to apply the £150 from your council tax bill. 

But that will not reach those who pay less than £150 in Council Tax. I think the whole think must have been a right pain for local authorities to sort out.

MarkM88

calcotti said:

But that will not reach those who pay less than £150 in Council Tax. I think the whole think must have been a right pain for local authorities to sort out.

Won’t it just show as a credit though? 

For example when people got the covid help, my liability for the year was less than the payment and it showed as a credit then they sent me a cheques. 

racyguy

woodbine said:

I think we have to wait and see what happens, there is no point in second guessing how many people who have to actually apply go on to do so.

The government have been warned already that at least 20% will not make the claim. Surely now is the time to make sure that everybody gets this money no matter what the individual's circumstances are especially for those claiming GPC. I would suggest that council's go one step further and make personal visits to the homes of these people. They used to visit homes where they knew potential GPC claimants lived -they have the data etc so use it.

It will be too late by September to ensure that all of the money is handed out. 

This is what happened when the DWP stopped paying for mortgage interest and changed it to a loan system. They expected almost everyone to move onto the loan system. Only approx 45%  moved over. Those that didn't either handed the keys to the bank, had their home repossessed, sold the house and rented somewhere else. The majority did not want another loan on top of the mortgage.

racyguy

MarkM88 said:

 they are going to apply the £150 from your council tax bill. 

And that is really going to help them with the fuel costs.

racyguy

MarkM88 said:

calcotti said:

But that will not reach those who pay less than £150 in Council Tax. I think the whole think must have been a right pain for local authorities to sort out.

Won’t it just show as a credit though? 

For example when people got the covid help, my liability for the year was less than the payment and it showed as a credit then they sent me a cheques. 

What Covid help? I never received that.

calcotti

MarkM88 said:

calcotti said:

But that will not reach those who pay less than £150 in Council Tax. I think the whole think must have been a right pain for local authorities to sort out.

Won’t it just show as a credit though? 

You're right, it will.

calcotti

racyguy said:

MarkM88 said:

calcotti said:

But that will not reach those who pay less than £150 in Council Tax. I think the whole think must have been a right pain for local authorities to sort out.

Won’t it just show as a credit though? 

For example when people got the covid help, my liability for the year was less than the payment and it showed as a credit then they sent me a cheques. 

What Covid help? I never received that.

People who received Council Tax Reduction received extra help - I confess that I can't remember the details anymore.

poppy123456

calcotti said:

racyguy said:

MarkM88 said:

calcotti said:

But that will not reach those who pay less than £150 in Council Tax. I think the whole think must have been a right pain for local authorities to sort out.

Won’t it just show as a credit though? 

For example when people got the covid help, my liability for the year was less than the payment and it showed as a credit then they sent me a cheques. 

What Covid help? I never received that.

People who received Council Tax Reduction received extra help.

Some received it for 1 year and others for 2 years. My local Authority gave it for 2 years. This year is the first time i've had to pay any Council tax since before the pandemic and even now all i pay is £6 per month.

MarkM88

From what I remember it was for working age people but can’t remember full details or amounts. 

ShirleyW

We get Guarantee Pension Credit.  I went on my Council's website and completed a direct debit mandate even though we have no Council Tax to pay. 

Did it at the end of April. Council sent me a letter confirming the details and 2 days ago the £150 landed in our bank account. I shall now cancel the direct debit mandate. 

It was a very easy process and I'm sure that most people who receive Guarantee Pension Credit are able to do it or have someone to help them.  After all they did manage to make a Pension Credit claim. 

calcotti

racyguy said: I would suggest that council's go one step further and make personal visits to the homes of these people. They used to visit homes where they knew potential GPC claimants lived -they have the data etc so use it.

Councils used to have more resources. After 12 years of austerity I doubt they can afford to visit people, I’m sure that although government have given councils some money to administer these funds I think it’s reasonable to assume that the funding isn’t adequate.

racyguy

MarkM88 said:

From what I remember it was for working age people but can’t remember full details or amounts. 

Ah right. Pensioners were exempt it seems.

racyguy

ShirleyW said:

We get Guarantee Pension Credit.  I went on my Council's website and completed a direct debit mandate even though we have no Council Tax to pay. 

Did it at the end of April. Council sent me a letter confirming the details and 2 days ago the £150 landed in our bank account. I shall now cancel the direct debit mandate. 

It was a very easy process and I'm sure that most people who receive Guarantee Pension Credit are able to do it or have someone to help them.  After all they did manage to make a Pension Credit claim. 

I'm confused.
By completing a direct debit for a '0' amount I was given to understand that the £150 paid into that bank account would only happen when and if the first DD had been made in April. If no payment was taken by the council how on earth could they verify that the bank account details were correct?

As for it being an easy process, you have to remember that like myself many find it extremely hard to deal with forms etc. In my case the now closed GPC claim was completed back in 2013 with the help of a DWP visiting officer who went through the form and gathered the evidence they needed. The only thing I had to do was sign it.  
Sadly it appears that neither the DWP or the Council offer this service now. Getting an interview slot at the local CAB and AgeUK is like buying a £2 lottery ticket and expecting to win big time. Hence why I do not claim Council Tax Support or GPC - I have great difficulty in not only filling out the forms but gathering the correct evidence needed - (of income streams etc) along with the requirement to notify the Council/Pension Service if my income level changes by as little of 1p a month. 

ShirleyW

I only said what had happened to me when I completed the direct debit mandate.  My Council sent a letter confirming the details,  if they were incorrect I was to let them know.  Approximately 10 days later the money landed in my bank.

I'm not saying it's easy for everyone but it was for me.

I think you are making things over difficult.   Most people can complete their bank details for a direct debit mandate and if not they have friends or family to help them.

I'm not talking about filling in lots of forms or providing evidence.  

racyguy

woodbine said:

I don't like asking this but do you have a link to support these figures? Non of the figures you quote make much sense if I'm honest, but I maybe wrong so if you could I'd be grateful @racyguy

These were the figures relating to the SMI uptake. In fact I was far too generous with my estimate - 77% refused the offer - and as for the estimated take up of the Council Tax rebate - I have already posted the official details from the UK Audit Office above.

Communication with claimants and decisions on taking up an SMI loan
		Latest figures
		(cumulative)
		5 August 2020
		Count	%
Claimants eligible for SMI
Letter sent and contact by phone completed		102,000	100%
Letter sent and contact attempted by phone		200	<1%
Letter sent, no contact attempted by phone		30	<1%
Total		103,000	100%
Of claimants where contact completed
Declined the loan		79,000	77%
Undecided on intention		2,000	2%
Accepted or intending to accept a loan		22,000	21%
Total		102,000	100%
Of those claimants who accepted or are intending to accept a loan
Signed and returned agreement to an SMI loan		21,000	96%
Agreed in principle to an SMI loan		1,000	4%
Total		22,000	100%

racyguy

ShirleyW said:

I only said what had happened to me when I completed the direct debit mandate.  My Council sent a letter confirming the details,  if they were incorrect I was to let them know.  Approximately 10 days later the money landed in my bank.

I'm not saying it's easy for everyone but it was for me.

I think you are making things over difficult.   Most people can complete their bank details for a direct debit mandate and if not they have friends or family to help them.

I'm not talking about filling in lots of forms or providing evidence.  

I just find it a little weird that you completed a Direct Debit form for nil payment as you had no CT liability and your council who could not act on it, accepted it as good evidence.