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Lcwra and Council tax benefit

Silvano

Hi
I've not heard anything back from my phone assessment for Lcwra yet (mind you it was only 10 days ago) but I've got a question. If I do get awarded it as part of my Universal credit will it affect my council tax benefit? I live in East Hants and they told me they class Universal credit as income, surely this can't be right. Now Im worried re money as really really struggling as it is on Universal credit without E Hants making me pay Council tax because they'll class Lcwra as income. Does anyone else on here live in East Hants and know if lcwra is classed as income for council tax benefit purposes?
Thank you

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calcotti

Silvano said:

If I do get awarded it as part of my Universal credit will it affect my council tax benefit?

When the LCWRA is added your UC maximum amount increases. The 'applicable amount' used to determine the CTR entitlement is matched to the UC maximum amount.
See page 35 https://cdn.easthants.gov.uk/public/documents/Council tax support scheme_0.pdf
Therefore, although your UC payable will increase, as the applicable amount will also have increased I would expect there to be no impact on the Car entitlement.

Silvano

Thank you for your answer. What do you mean? Do you mean that I'll have to pay quite a bit of council tax?

MarkM88

Silvano said:

Thank you for your answer. What do you mean? Do you mean that I'll have to pay quite a bit of council tax?

As advised, there should be no impact to CT.

Silvano

By no impact do you mean I won't have to pay it if Im on lcwra part of U Credit? In other words I'll still get Council tax benefit?

poppy123456

Silvano said:

By no impact do you mean I won't have to pay it if Im on lcwra part of U Credit? In other words I'll still get Council tax benefit?

No impact means if you're found to have LCWRA then this shouldn't affect your council tax reduction. Therefore, you will still receive CTR.

calcotti

Based on my reading of the CTR scheme for East Hants - but they are always incredibly hard to interpret.

Ragnaresque

I'm sorry to say it completely depends on your local authority's specific rules. I'm in Newcastle, and when I qualified for LCWRA, the Council just ramped up my Council Tax bill to account for the extra LCWRA "income". It didn't make any difference that the extra UC payments were to support my ill health needs. It seems a bit of oversight in the government disability support strategy to permit this kind of local authority discretion - another postcode lottery loophole.

stevie66

Ragnaresque said:

I'm sorry to say it completely depends on your local authority's specific rules. I'm in Newcastle, and when I qualified for LCWRA, the Council just ramped up my Council Tax bill to account for the extra LCWRA "income". It didn't make any difference that the extra UC payments were to support my ill health needs. It seems a bit of oversight in the government disability support strategy to permit this kind of local authority discretion - another postcode lottery loophole.

Hi I'm in Dorset and information reguarding lcwra and council tax seem clear as its in a list of income that'd disregarded, however the council benefit have added this to my bill as a care component thus allowing them to say it is income.
I have questioned this with them and took advice from citizens advice who agree with my findings, however the council have up to 2 months to respond,
Will let you know the outcome.
My advise would be to look under your councils documents for a list of payments not considered income and check the council tax benefit letter to how they have declared the payment.

Ragnaresque

stevie66 said:

Ragnaresque said:

I'm sorry to say it completely depends on your local authority's specific rules. I'm in Newcastle, and when I qualified for LCWRA, the Council just ramped up my Council Tax bill to account for the extra LCWRA "income". It didn't make any difference that the extra UC payments were to support my ill health needs. It seems a bit of oversight in the government disability support strategy to permit this kind of local authority discretion - another postcode lottery loophole.

Hi I'm in Dorset and information reguarding lcwra and council tax seem clear as its in a list of income that'd disregarded, however the council benefit have added this to my bill as a care component thus allowing them to say it is income.
I have questioned this with them and took advice from citizens advice who agree with my findings, however the council have up to 2 months to respond,
Will let you know the outcome.
My advise would be to look under your councils documents for a list of payments not considered income and check the council tax benefit letter to how they have declared the payment.

Stevie66 - that would be great if you could post the outcome. I asked my local councillor to make enquiries about it and the response I got from the Chief Finance officer was "we don't discriminate" and if I found myself in financial difficulties I could apply for a one off discretionary support payment - note: discretionary, and a whole load of additional bureaucracy to go through, which is just what you need when you're too ill to work

I'm still debating whether I have the energy to fight it.

JBS2022

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

stevie66

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

Your correct most people do have to pay, I pay £190 but once the council did a review, they change it to £333, stating my UC claim had changed, when it had not, and added the amount of lcwra on as earnings, this they did not do on the previous review.
That's why I began to take an interest.

Ragnaresque

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

My local authority disregards all 'disability' benefits except LCW and LWCRA. They have a stated policy of "supporting the most vulnerable people", so PIP and ESA (among others) aren't classed as 'income' in the calculation. But when old style ESA moved over to LWCRA at the end of 2018, the 'support for vulnerable people' didn't move with it. The result is that anyone on legacy old style ESA, or new income based ESA, doesn't pay council tax, but anyone who now gets LWCRA does. People on basic rate universal credit pay 10% council tax where I live, but the extra money for LWCRA bumps this up to a higher band - so if you don't work because of a disability you pay more than double the council tax of someone who is unemployed for any other reason.

stevie66

Ragnaresque said:

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

My local authority disregards all 'disability' benefits except LCW and LWCRA. They have a stated policy of "supporting the most vulnerable people", so PIP and ESA (among others) aren't classed as 'income' in the calculation. But when old style ESA moved over to LWCRA at the end of 2018, the 'support for vulnerable people' didn't move with it. The result is that anyone on legacy old style ESA, or new income based ESA, doesn't pay council tax, but anyone who now gets LWCRA does. People on basic rate universal credit pay 10% council tax where I live, but the extra money for LWCRA bumps this up to a higher band - so if you don't work because of a disability you pay more than double the council tax of someone who is unemployed for any other reason.

Perhàps it might be time to create a local authority shame list as not all do add this as income. Maybe scope could put it forward @ScopeHelpline

poppy123456

Scopehelpine do not have access to the forums. All local Authorities have their own rules for CTR.

calcotti

stevie66 said:

Ragnaresque said:

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

My local authority disregards all 'disability' benefits except LCW and LWCRA. They have a stated policy of "supporting the most vulnerable people", so PIP and ESA (among others) aren't classed as 'income' in the calculation. But when old style ESA moved over to LWCRA at the end of 2018, the 'support for vulnerable people' didn't move with it. The result is that anyone on legacy old style ESA, or new income based ESA, doesn't pay council tax, but anyone who now gets LWCRA does. People on basic rate universal credit pay 10% council tax where I live, but the extra money for LWCRA bumps this up to a higher band - so if you don't work because of a disability you pay more than double the council tax of someone who is unemployed for any other reason.

Perhàps it might be time to create a local authority shame list as not all do add this as income. Maybe scope could put it forward @ScopeHelpline

Taking LCWRA as income doesn’t necessarily matter. I would expect the CTR to be based on the excess between your actual income and your allowance. If your allowance is taken as the maximum UC entitlement then the allowance will have been increased by the inclusion of the LCWRA because LCAwArA simply balances out on two sides of the calculation. However it obviously depends on the detail of the scheme.

stevie66

calcotti said:

stevie66 said:

Ragnaresque said:

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

My local authority disregards all 'disability' benefits except LCW and LWCRA. They have a stated policy of "supporting the most vulnerable people", so PIP and ESA (among others) aren't classed as 'income' in the calculation. But when old style ESA moved over to LWCRA at the end of 2018, the 'support for vulnerable people' didn't move with it. The result is that anyone on legacy old style ESA, or new income based ESA, doesn't pay council tax, but anyone who now gets LWCRA does. People on basic rate universal credit pay 10% council tax where I live, but the extra money for LWCRA bumps this up to a higher band - so if you don't work because of a disability you pay more than double the council tax of someone who is unemployed for any other reason.

Perhàps it might be time to create a local authority shame list as not all do add this as income. Maybe scope could put it forward @ScopeHelpline

Taking LCWRA as income doesn’t necessarily matter. I would expect the CTR to be based on the excess between your actual income and your allowance. If your allowance is taken as the maximum UC entitlement then the allowance will have been increased by the inclusion of the LCWRA because LCAwArA simply balances out on two sides of the calculation. However it obviously depends on the detail of the scheme.

I can see what your saying and agree, the UC should be used as max needed to live off including the LCWRA but our council has not done that calculation. They have used LCWRA payment separate as income and call it care.

calcotti

stevie66 said:

calcotti said:

stevie66 said:

Ragnaresque said:

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

My local authority disregards all 'disability' benefits except LCW and LWCRA. They have a stated policy of "supporting the most vulnerable people", so PIP and ESA (among others) aren't classed as 'income' in the calculation. But when old style ESA moved over to LWCRA at the end of 2018, the 'support for vulnerable people' didn't move with it. The result is that anyone on legacy old style ESA, or new income based ESA, doesn't pay council tax, but anyone who now gets LWCRA does. People on basic rate universal credit pay 10% council tax where I live, but the extra money for LWCRA bumps this up to a higher band - so if you don't work because of a disability you pay more than double the council tax of someone who is unemployed for any other reason.

Perhàps it might be time to create a local authority shame list as not all do add this as income. Maybe scope could put it forward @ScopeHelpline

Taking LCWRA as income doesn’t necessarily matter. I would expect the CTR to be based on the excess between your actual income and your allowance. If your allowance is taken as the maximum UC entitlement then the allowance will have been increased by the inclusion of the LCWRA because LCAwArA simply balances out on two sides of the calculation. However it obviously depends on the detail of the scheme.

I can see what you’re saying and agree, the UC should be used as max needed to live off including the LCWRA but our council has not done that calculation. They have used LCWRA payment separate as income and call it care.

That clearly makes no sense! (As you have said.)

stevie66

calcotti said:

stevie66 said:

calcotti said:

stevie66 said:

Ragnaresque said:

JBS2022 said:

Most people have to pay at least some council tax, when I was on benefits and LCWRA ) my hubby gets PIP also) last year I had to pay £250 a year council tax. I now work but I was shocked I had to pay anything being disabled at the time. There is still a misconception that people on benefits don't pay council tax. Everyone I know pays something unless they claim Severe Mental Incapacity ( brain disfunction caused by an organic disease like Alzheimer's or brain damage).

My local authority disregards all 'disability' benefits except LCW and LWCRA. They have a stated policy of "supporting the most vulnerable people", so PIP and ESA (among others) aren't classed as 'income' in the calculation. But when old style ESA moved over to LWCRA at the end of 2018, the 'support for vulnerable people' didn't move with it. The result is that anyone on legacy old style ESA, or new income based ESA, doesn't pay council tax, but anyone who now gets LWCRA does. People on basic rate universal credit pay 10% council tax where I live, but the extra money for LWCRA bumps this up to a higher band - so if you don't work because of a disability you pay more than double the council tax of someone who is unemployed for any other reason.

Perhàps it might be time to create a local authority shame list as not all do add this as income. Maybe scope could put it forward @ScopeHelpline

Taking LCWRA as income doesn’t necessarily matter. I would expect the CTR to be based on the excess between your actual income and your allowance. If your allowance is taken as the maximum UC entitlement then the allowance will have been increased by the inclusion of the LCWRA because LCAwArA simply balances out on two sides of the calculation. However it obviously depends on the detail of the scheme.

I can see what you’re saying and agree, the UC should be used as max needed to live off including the LCWRA but our council has not done that calculation. They have used LCWRA payment separate as income and call it care.

That clearly makes no sense! (As you have said.)

Well had lots of emails and chat with citizens advice and the agree too. So hopefully I'll eventually get a result.

JBS2022

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not. I've not heard of people's CT being increased because of LCWRA, SG or PIP though, if that's the case it's shocking. When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

calcotti

JBS2022 said:

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not...When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

That's because most councils require most working age claimants to pay at least some of their Council Tax - even the maximum Council Tax Reduction will not cover all of the Council Tax. The amount required varies. A very small number of councils still cover all of CT with CTR for those taht are eligible. Pension age claimants are covered by national rules.

Back in 2020 the rules were all still set nationally for working age claimants and CTR would cover all of CT.