Lcwra and Council tax benefit

JBS2022

calcotti said:

JBS2022 said:

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not...When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

That's because most councils require most working age claimants to pay at least some of their Council Tax - even the maximum Council Tax Reduction will not cover all of the Council Tax. The amount required varies. A very small number of councils still cover all of CT with CTR for those taht are eligible. Pension age claimants are covered by national rules.

Back in 2020 the rules were all still set nationally for working age claimants and CTR would cover all of CT.

Yes I unfortunately realised that with my council tax bill last year. It's very interesting that a small amount of councils fully cover the CT and most don't.

stevie66

Finally got a reply from the council....
They have agreed the bill was incorrect, that the care element should have not been on there but should have shown as work allowance, (an amount I could earn before effecting council tax £20 per week)
They recalculated my bill and have adjusted it by 3pence 😀 I'm taking it as a win as they have also confirmed how the benefit is calculated using universal credit and lcwra to sum the amout I need to live off.
Hope this helps.
Dorset council does not include lcwra as earnings.
Steve

Ragnaresque

stevie66 said:

Finally got a reply from the council....
They have agreed the bill was incorrect, that the care element should have not been on there but should have shown as work allowance, (an amount I could earn before effecting council tax £20 per week)
They recalculated my bill and have adjusted it by 3pence 😀 I'm taking it as a win as they have also confirmed how the benefit is calculated using universal credit and lcwra to sum the amout I need to live off.
Hope this helps.
Dorset council does not include lcwra as earnings.
Steve

That's brilliant, so pleased you got it sorted 

JBS2022

My local council doesn't even pay extra CT reductions for people claiming PIP, so at least if my hubby's review fails I won't lose my reductions.

Breacon

JBS2022 said:

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not. I've not heard of people's CT being increased because of LCWRA, SG or PIP though, if that's the case it's shocking. When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

Hi all,
Very interesting reading all the comments, I received UC & diddnt pay any CT. I no longer receive UC but instead receive ESA & in the support group, I have received a form to fill in from CT, is it likely I will pay CT. I have just received an increase in ESA, but it appears, this may go on CT. Can any one comment please.??

poppy123456

Breacon said:

JBS2022 said:

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not. I've not heard of people's CT being increased because of LCWRA, SG or PIP though, if that's the case it's shocking. When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

Hi all,
Very interesting reading all the comments, I received UC & diddnt pay any CT. I no longer receive UC but instead receive ESA & in the support group, I have received a form to fill in from CT, is it likely I will pay CT. I have just received an increase in ESA, but it appears, this may go on CT. Can any one comment please.??

The ESA you're claiming will be New style ESA, which isn't means tested. What's the reason why you no longer claim UC?

Breacon

Poppy, thank you for responding, I think I receive the Contribution based ESA, I spoke to my work coach last week, & she told me, I would no longer be receiving UC, in fact I don't think I have had it, since I was put into the ESA support group, which increased my benefits, I assumed that was possibly the reason for no longer receiving UC.

JBS2022

Breacon said:

JBS2022 said:

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not. I've not heard of people's CT being increased because of LCWRA, SG or PIP though, if that's the case it's shocking. When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

Hi all,
Very interesting reading all the comments, I received UC & diddnt pay any CT. I no longer receive UC but instead receive ESA & in the support group, I have received a form to fill in from CT, is it likely I will pay CT. I have just received an increase in ESA, but it appears, this may go on CT. Can any one comment please.??

I guess it depends on your local council, even though my husband gets ESA and PIP we still pay around £500 in CT. As far as I'm aware most councils usually make you pay something, even if it's only a small amount.

poppy123456

Breacon said:

Poppy, thank you for responding, I think I receive the Contribution based ESA, I spoke to my work coach last week, & she told me, I would no longer be receiving UC, in fact I don't think I have had it, since I was put into the ESA support group, which increased my benefits, I assumed that was possibly the reason for no longer receiving UC.

Are you living with a partner? Do you have any other income such as pensions? or savings/capital of more than £16,000?

Breacon

poppy123456 said:

Breacon said:

JBS2022 said:

My local council definately makes ESA claimants pay at least 25% Council Tax unless they claim SMI, the same applies to UC, it's irrelevant whether they are in the Support Group or not. I've not heard of people's CT being increased because of LCWRA, SG or PIP though, if that's the case it's shocking. When I was on Jobseekers allowance back in 2010 I never paid any CT at all, so I was shocked to find out that things had changed.

Hi all,
Very interesting reading all the comments, I received UC & diddnt pay any CT. I no longer receive UC but instead receive ESA & in the support group, I have received a form to fill in from CT, is it likely I will pay CT. I have just received an increase in ESA, but it appears, this may go on CT. Can any one comment please.??

The ESA you're claiming will be New style ESA, which isn't means tested. What's the reason why you no longer claim UC?

Breacon

Hi Poppy,
I really don't know, it wasn't explained to me why, I live alone & have no savings, & no other income, I suddenly received a phone call from pip without warning, & suddenly awarded standard rate for both. This was after, I was put in the support group.
So I'm wondering if it's due to that.
I did receive UC prior to ESA, but getting the ESA was a fight, but managed in the end, the tax office hadn't updated my tax return info, so was refused ESA, initially. I then had a tax bill to pay out of my UC, before January this year, which actually left me, unable to use my heating, & lived on toast for the most part. A very difficult time for me, whilst fighting on with the benefits system. I should have had my LC assessment in Nov after three sick notes, however this diddnt happen until Jan 23. I did receive some back pay, but that meant I had an overpayment of UC.
I don't know if that's paid back, I assumed it has. I Recieved ESA at the end of Nov 22 at £77.00 per week, I believe I was getting £1.00 UC. I'm not sure which ESA I'm getting, but it went up to £117.00.
After been put in the support group.
I receive NI contributions with my ESA, if that helps. I think I may have to pay CT as I have a form to fill in.
I was awarded pip, this March. I don't agree with the decision though.

poppy123456

Breacon said:

Hi Poppy,
I really don't know, it wasn't explained to me why, I live alone & have no savings, & no other income, I suddenly received a phone call from pip without warning, & suddenly awarded standard rate for both. This was after, I was put in the support group.
So I'm wondering if it's due to that.
I did receive UC prior to ESA, but getting the ESA was a fight, but managed in the end, the tax office hadn't updated my tax return info, so was refused ESA, initially. I then had a tax bill to pay out of my UC, before January this year, which actually left me, unable to use my heating, & lived on toast for the most part. A very difficult time for me, whilst fighting on with the benefits system. I should have had my LC assessment in Nov after three sick notes, however this diddnt happen until Jan 23. I did receive some back pay, but that meant I had an overpayment of UC.
I don't know if that's paid back, I assumed it has. I Recieved ESA at the end of Nov 22 at £77.00 per week, I believe I was getting £1.00 UC. I'm not sure which ESA I'm getting, but it went up to £117.00.
After been put in the support group.
I receive NI contributions with my ESA, if that helps. I think I may have to pay CT as I have a form to fill in.
I was awarded pip, this March. I don't agree with the decision though.

Your ESA is New style and it's £117.60/week. As you're in the Support Group your UC should also include the LCWRA element from the 4th month after you reported your health condition. As you live alone, with no other income or savings the UC shouldn't have ended.

The ESA will continue to be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. Do you still have access to your journal? (if you had one) If you do can you have a look through the journal and tell me what date you reported your health condition? and also what date you used to receive your payments each month.

calcotti

poppy123456 said:?..you're in the Support Group your UC should also include the LCWRA element from the 4th month after you reported your health condition. ..

LCWRA should be included in calculating UC once Support Group is paid in ESA (although often properly incorrected by UC)

Breacon

Oh dear,
Thank you very much for your reply Poppy, I was signed of work in Sept, my GP advised I go to CAB, they completed the pip form, which I now realise was very poorly done.
I was not advised to apply for UC, I applied for ESA but was turned down, due to insufficient NI contributions, so I paid the shortfall, & my tax bill.
CAB eventually advised me to apply for UC which I got & back dated, I then got ESA, which I thought was Contribution based ie NI contributions.
When I got ESA, my UC reduced to a £1.00, which enabled me not to pay CT.
I diddnt get any extra after 4 months, I have just got the increase due to Support Group, & was told last week, that my UC had stopped a little while ago.
I was not given a date or explanation from my work coach, who I will not be speaking to again now, as I'm in SG.
I did not have a journal, & she kindly allowed me to have telephone calls without having to go to the job centre, which was invaluable, as would have been very difficult for me. I am technically challenged, hence, she was happy, just to do the phone calls.
There was a delay in my WC Assessment, as I diddnt know about it.
I was told Poppy, that UC was deducted, when I got ESA.
Which resulted in a £1.00 UC.
I took my first sick note into the job centre, I believe when or soon after I got it, in Sept & every sick note afterwards my daughter sent electronically for me.
I received UC letter for the period 13th Jan to 12th Feb 23 & my award was £ 0.00. Dec 13th to 12th Jan my award was £1.00.
Yes Yr right it is new style ESA.
13th Nov 12th Dec 22, UC was £1.00. My UC payments were paid on the 19th of each month.
Hope all this makes sense Poppy.
Many thanks.

Breacon

Hi Poppy, I've checked my info & my first sick note, was issued on 15th August 22. & the last sick note finished in Feb 23, I have not provided any more, as  I understand, if you are in the support group, I don't need too.
Many thanks.

poppy123456

New style ESA is always deducted in full from UC.

Breacon said:

I received UC letter for the period 13th Jan to 12th Feb 23 & my award was £ 0.00.

This is likely because your ESA had increased to £117.60/week, which reduced your UC to zero. However, because you're now in the Support Group your UC should include the LCWRA element. (£354.21/month)

Your total income should be as follows, ESA £117.60/week (£235.20/fortnight.

UC Standard allowance single over 25 £334.91 + LCWRA element £354.28/month. Total UC before deductions £689.19 - ESA £509.60

Total UC payable £179.59/month.. and ESA £235.20/fortnight.

I'm not familiar with the process when you don't have access to a journal. I think the best thing to do is ring the UC helpline and tell them that you were placed into the Support Group for ESA so you should now have the LCWRA element included in your claim.

Universal Credit helpline
Telephone: 0800 328 5644
Textphone: 0800 328 1344
Relay UK (if you cannot hear or speak on the phone): 18001 then 0800 328 5644
British Sign Language (BSL) video relay service if you’re on a computer - find out how to use the service on mobile or tablet
Welsh language: 0800 328 1744
Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm

Once your UC payments are sorted you will also be entitled to the Cost of living payments and the first one is sometime this Spring (£301)

Breacon

Thank you Poppy, that's explained perfectly to me, sorry to be so pathetic, the confusion arose, last week, after my work coach stated I wasn't getting UC anymore, I did tell her, I was in the support group.
But hopefully it will sort itself out.
I will ring the tele no, tomorrow to check with UC. Thank you for your patience with me.
I did tell her, I diddnt think I'd manage on line journal stuff, that's why I diddnt have one, I'm over 60 so I don't pay for scripts.
It must be lovely, to be able to help people like you do.....I just wish I could.
Thanks again your a star.
Il let you know how I get on tomorrow.

poppy123456

Breacon said:

Thank you Poppy, that's explained perfectly to me, sorry to be so pathetic, the confusion arose, last week, after my work coach stated I wasn't getting UC anymore, I did tell her, I was in the support group.
But hopefully it will sort itself out.
I will ring the tele no, tomorrow to check with UC. Thank you for your patience with me.
I did tell her, I diddnt think I'd manage on line journal stuff, that's why I diddnt have one, I'm over 60 so I don't pay for scripts.
It must be lovely, to be able to help people like you do.....I just wish I could.
Thanks again your a star.
Il let you know how I get on tomorrow.

No worries. You're certainly not pathetic in any way! The benefits system is very confusing if you don't understand it.

My knowledge has come from many years of personal experience, learning from others and my own research. It didn't come overnight, for sure.

Access to the journal isn't complicated and you will be able to see everything online. It's perfectly safe and secure. You will be able to see your monthly statements and how much you will receive. Messages can be left on your journal, if you need to so no phone calls needed, which is even better. Very simple to use. I don't claim UC myself but manage my daughters claim for her.

Please do let me know how you get on once you've rang them.

Breacon

Sorry I've just noticed this message, yes case manager is looking at it for Me, she will contact me before 19th April.
I suspect they will take the overpayment to me, from the back pay.
But again thank you. In time I might be brave & attempt the journal thing.
Thank you for everyone's help.