PIP Tribunal and advice welcomed!

jules2022

Fantastico said:

jules2022 said:

Hi, I'm new to this forum but have some experience of PIP claims and tribunals through my work. I would say definitely continue with the appeal as it's completely independent of the DWP and it sounds to me like you would have a very good chance of success. When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration did you request/receive a copy of the Medical Assessors Report (PA4)? 
If not, request a copy (you can do this by telephone or in writing). When you receive it, I find it helps to go through it and highlight all the things you disagree with, and also note anything which you feel was missed.  You can then use this to do a list of bullet points for the appeal.

All I was sent was two copies of the MR decision letter and that's all. If I request the assessors report how long would it take to reach me and could I still start the tribunal process before receiving it because I don't know how long it takes before you even get an appointment for the tribunal. You really only have a month to request the tribunal unless you have a good reason I believe.

 Thanks for your insight, very much appreciated. 

Hi, if you explain you need the assessor's report sent ASAP, they will normally do their best to send it out quickly. But don't worry if it doesn't arrive in time for your one month deadline - you can always write a short note on the appeal form (on section 5 "The reasons for your appeal"). I would suggest something like "I will send further reasons once I have received a copy of the PA4 which I requested on XX date".  Once you have registered the appeal online, HMCTS will write to you confirming it's been received and giving you an "evidence cover sheet" which you send in with the evidence.
Hope that helps.

Fantastico

Have a question regarding appealing online, I'm at the point where I have to give my reasons for appealing. Do I have to give a detailed explanation of every point or just a simple paragraph explaining why I disagreed with the DWP's decision? 

I honestly just noticed that the date on the MR letter in the 26th of May, which means I only have until next week to appeal, only received the letter on Saturday. 

poppy123456

Just a brief reason will be fine. Even if it's late i've never heard of HMCTS refusing a late appeal if it's within 13 months.

I will stand by what i said about the report, at this stage it's not needed. It will be included in the bundle you receive anyway. I see no point in stressing yourself further trying to get through to PIP at this stage.

jules2022

It's entirely up to you and will depend on how much time and effort you can put into it. I personally think that putting a reasonable amount of detail in is the way to go, as the DWP will sometimes (not often) decide to award the extra points when they see a strong case put forward.  You can also refer to the evidence you submitted for the Mandatory reconsideration ie. "please see my diary sheets for information about my problems with dressing and undressing..."
Also, I think that pointing out errors and omissions in the PA4 makes it easier for the tribunal panel to see that the DWP's evidence is flawed and to prefer yours instead.

poppy123456

A brief reason for now is all that's needed in my opinion. You can then write your submission at a later date. The most important thing right now is to request the Tribunal.

Fantastico

Username_removed said:

Never heard of any WRO requesting or suggesting a claimant gets or uses the PA4. As discussed elsewhere on here many times it’s a terrible idea for anyone with anxiety issues and it has pretty much zero relationship with what takes place at an appeal hearing where you’re kicking at an open door with regard to the quality of most HCP reports. 

It also reinforces the idea that if you can just rip apart the report then you get PIP and that the assessment is pivotal to the process and/or an appeal. The contents of a PIP 2 will always have far more relevance. Get that right and it takes 30 seconds to dismiss the HCP report and move onto the evidence which justifies an award. 

To use a phrase I’ve used many times you get PIP through demonstrating the strength of your evidence not the weakness of theirs. In other words you can rip apart a PA4 but if your PIP 2 is poor snd your other evidence is poor, ill-focused or misdirected medical evidence then your claim won’t succeed anyway.

I have to agree with @poppy123456 with regard to the appeal form. It requires a skeletal argument and no more. The detail is added on the day or via a written submission. 

Thanks for your input Mike, much appreciated. 

poppy123456

Biblioklept said:

Why is it recommended for the MR but not the appeal?

Why is what recommended at MR? IF you're talking about the assessment report then i wouldn't advise anyone to concentrate on the report for challenging the decision at any stage. You can look through hundreds of threads here and you'll see the same advice "put the report to one side and forget about it"

Fantastico

Does anyone know if you can submit extra evidence once you start the tribunal process online? For example, being able to upload extra evidence, etc. Or do you need to send the evidence via letter?

There seem to be a lot of conflicting approaches to the tribunal process. I'll admit I'm struggling to get my head around it so far, feels rather intimidating. 

Fantastico

Really wish I could get some help from the likes of Citizens Advice. Tried ringing them again today for a couple of hours because I'm feeling lost but it's impossible to get through to them and they've just stopped doing in-office appointments. Appreciate they are in demand but could really do with their guidance. 

All I can do is just start the appeal and wish for the best. It's such an intimidating process.

poppy123456

Yes you can submit extra evidence after you've requested the Tribunal. I’m not as familiar with online request as paper requests but I think you can send evidence through email. 

Have you looked to see what other advice agency is local to you? Have a look here. https://advicelocal.uk/ Put your posts in and drop the box to welfare benefits.

Fantastico

So I've started the tribunal process. Was anxious about pressing the submit button so how I'm going to cope with the actual tribunal I don't know. Hope you don't that I post on here if I have any future questions regarding the tribunal, it'll probably be many months before anything happens anyway. 

Thanks for all your help so far. 

Sue_Alumni

Hi @fantastico
For what its worth I think you should definitely put in an appeal and you should try and do this within 30 days of the Mandatory Reconsideration Notice (MRN). Late appeals are allowed provided they are made within 13 months of the MRN  and you give a reason for the appeal being late.

I agree with @poppy123456 that there is no point focusing on all the inaccuracies in the medical report but I would add that if the assessment has been carried out in such a manner that it fails to adhere to  the DWP's own guidelines to assessment providers this should be noted and the point made that the DWP's decision is erroneous as it is based on a flawed assessment. That said, @poppy123456 is correct, you will not win your appeal just by criticizing the assessment process. The important thing is to show by reason of your own evidence and supporting medical evidence that you do satisfy the descriptors and you are entitled to the points you say you are. 

Citizens Advice might not be able to help with Tribunal representation but they may be able to help you prepare grounds for appeal.  

calcotti

Sue_Scope said:

Hi @fantastico
For what its worth I think you should definitely put in an appeal and you should try and do this within 30 days of the Mandatory Reconsideration Notice (MRN).

OP says they have already submitted the appeal

Fantastico said: So I've started the tribunal process. 

Fantastico

Hello everyone, 

So it's been a little while and I still haven't heard anything back from the DWP regarding the tribunal. According to the online appeal process it stated that they were given until the 20th of July to respond to the appeal but there's been nothing. Is this usual? I'm a little confused as to what happens next and how long some form of contact could take. 

Thanks again. 

poppy123456

DWP very often don’t respond by the deadline. HMCTS may extend that deadline. If they still don’t respond nothing happens, your hearing just continues as normal. Once a date becomes available HMCTS will contact you.

Ap76

I’ve been through this but just before tribunal they changed their minds. I’m currently going through my third review and it really is stressful. There’s a fantastic website that helped me. I think subscription is about £11 but the advice is invaluable, particularly around mental health. It’s www.benefitsandwork.co.uk. I know for a fact that is was their advice that made the DWP cave. Fingers crossed my review will go the same way. Wishing you the best of luck, I too am terrified at the prospect of going to tribunal and I think it’s a completely normal reaction

Alex_Alumni

Hi @Ap76 thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

I think it goes without saying that you should never have to pay for information and advice which can be accessed for free. Some good places to go for free professional advice and information on PIP claims include Advice Local, Citizens Advice, and Turn2Us.

You can also give the Scope Helpline a call and speak to our advisers as well.

I hope you hear more soon @Fantastico and keep us up to date, we're all here to support you!

Cartini

Alex_Scope said:

I think it goes without saying that you should never have to pay for information and advice which can be accessed for free.

Hi @Alex_Scope,

I agree with you, but free advice isn`t given to the depth and quality of that garnered from Benefits and Work. 

I joined B&W earlier in the year and the subscription fee was a very good investment indeed; it allowed me to see things as never before which then led to enhanced for Daily Living.

I`ve used CAB (or CA as they appear to be), and as good as their help is, it`s not a patch on the information available from the members area of B&W.

Andy

poppy123456

To subscribe to benefits and work it's £19.95 a year. I will have to agree with @Alex_Scope here and people shouldn't have to pay to advice. Some people can't afford to spare £20 membership fee either, which i've also mentioned before, It may not be a lot of money to some people but to others it can be the difference between not eating and eating meals for x amount of days.

Alex_Alumni

I'm glad it was a good investment for you @Cartini

Obviously everyone is free to seek out whatever help they feel is most beneficial to them, but it's important to note the options out there, especially when someone might be struggling financially, as @poppy123456 has mentioned.