Looking to get a job to increase our income

racyguy

As we do not receive any means tested benefits the only way to increase our income to compensate for the reduction in benefits payments is to find a job. We are both in our late 70's.
We need £50 a week minimum to compensate for the loss of Pension Credit, another £160 for the TV licence and a further £2300 to cover the annual CT.
Based on the minimum wage I would have to do say 14 hours a week to break even after tax and NIC has been deducted.
The only issue I could think of is that any work I do cannot compromise why I receive PIP.
Does anybody know if there are any grants out there that could help finance the self employment - say £1000 to get me started.
I have been offered self employment as a window cleaner already by a neighbour but feel that it would be a bit difficult given my useless legs.

calcotti

Biblioklept said:

Could you spend some of those 14 hours a week working on the paperwork to support your pension credit claim instead? 

Or engage with the council who sent visiting officers to assist.

OP, self employment takes you into a completely different world of filing information with HMRC for income tax. (There wouldn’t be any NI payable because you are over pension age.)

poppy123456

You keep saying you can't mentally keep up with the constant paper work for your benefit claims but then ask about self employment. Surely it would take less than 14 hours per week to keep onto of that and would be less stressful than working? I give up.

calcotti

Biblioklept said:

Just because something seems simple or easier doesn't mean it is to someone else. 

That’s a point well made.

poppy123456

Biblioklept said:

comments like "I give up" seem pretty rude to someone that's struggling.  

I wasn’t being rude and I’m sorry you thought that. I was just speaking my mind and we are all allowed to do that. 

We have given lots of advice through several threads. There’s only so much advice we can give.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

You keep saying you can't mentally keep up with the constant paper work for your benefit claims but then ask about self employment. Surely it would take less than 14 hours per week to keep onto of that and would be less stressful than working? I give up.

I need to do something to improve our financial position. You appear to be saying that I would have 14 hours a week to manage the PC or CTS claim? Being able to do a manual job is for me OK, Working on a PC claim monthly is not possible. Time available is not the same as using it for that purpose.

poppy123456

I find it odd how i wasn't the only person to advise that maybe you could spend some of that time on a benefits claim, yet you only quoted my comment.

racyguy

Biblioklept said:

@racyguy did you hear anything else from those people that came to the house? I can't remember about your wife but what does she think about having people in to try and help? 

Hi,
no nothing more from them. I did leave the Council Benefit guy a message on his mobile but nothing since.
I was going to ask him if he could arrange, at his office, monthly review meetings etc for him to keep the Pension service up to date if I was to make a claim.

racyguy

calcotti said:

Biblioklept said:

Just because something seems simple or easier doesn't mean it is to someone else. 

That’s a point well made.

Thank you for that comment. At least one person understands that not everybody is capable and able to do something that others find easy.

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

I find it odd how i wasn't the only person to advise that maybe you could spend some of that time on a benefits claim, yet you only quoted my comment.

Having the time is not the same as using it for a task that I find extremely difficult and stressful.

poppy123456

Well as you can see, i wasn't the first and only person to give exactly the same advice.

Biblioklept said:

Could you spend some of those 14 hours a week working on the paperwork to support your pension credit claim instead? I know with the fluctuating pensions it is a lot of work to upkeep each month but it wouldn't be as much as 14 hour work weeks and it'll then help with your CT as well. 

racyguy

poppy123456 said:

Well as you can see, i wasn't the first and only person to give exactly the same advice.

Biblioklept said:

Could you spend some of those 14 hours a week working on the paperwork to support your pension credit claim instead? I know with the fluctuating pensions it is a lot of work to upkeep each month but it wouldn't be as much as 14 hour work weeks and it'll then help with your CT as well. 

Does it really matter?
You consistently miss the crux of the problem, Having plenty of time on my hands does not mean that I can cope with PC or CTS monthly monitoring - my head will not cope with it.

poppy123456

It matters to me because you constantly quote me, making me out to be the bad person, when infact im not. Over several threads i've tried to advise you, trying to give you some options but each time a brick wall is hit and we end up going round in circles.

I also advised you that they would help you send the paperwork when you need to send more evidence in the future, so that you could continue with pension credit and CTR claims. Yet, you told me "no they would not." You said you pleaded with them in the past and they refused. Comment here. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/527756#Comment_527756

Now you're saying you're going to ask them to do this.

So you see, we go round in circles and i'm not missing the crux of the problem at all.

racyguy said:

poppy123456 said:

Well as you can see, i wasn't the first and only person to give exactly the same advice.

Biblioklept said:

Could you spend some of those 14 hours a week working on the paperwork to support your pension credit claim instead? I know with the fluctuating pensions it is a lot of work to upkeep each month but it wouldn't be as much as 14 hour work weeks and it'll then help with your CT as well. 

Having plenty of time on my hands does not mean that I can cope with PC or CTS monthly monitoring

I never once said you had "plenty of time on your hands"

calcotti

woodbine said:..someone in their late 70's with in their words useless legs" is considering a job as a window cleaner, ..

That did make me wonder if it would be a sensible choice.

racyguy

Biblioklept said:

Good hearing from you @racyguy I understand better now why you can't manage the PC claim and the CTR as a result. I said before I definitely couldn't manage the upkeep giving the tiny variations in your income each month. I hope the guy from the council gets back to you and is able to help with some options. 

How long ago did you contact him? 

Will any of your current income be affected if you managed to find some small work alongside?

I have been told repeatedly that neither the DWP or the Council have what were known as years ago as 'visiting officers' exist in that way now.
I contacted him over 2 weeks ago.
All i really want is help on a monthly basis to put together a report showing what my income for that month has been together with evidence to support it. I will be telling the guy if he rings that that is all the help I need and that is the only thing that is in the way of getting me back on PC and a reduction in my CT.

I will have to see what he says when he makes contact.

No, whatever I can earn will not make any difference to the benefits that we both receive. I purposely have not claimed any means tested ones because of the rule of reporting weekly/monthly what all of my net pensions have been. Obviously I will have to ensure that there is not a problem between PIP and working.

If no help is forthcoming and I do make a claim for PC I will be looking at another compliance/fraud investigation in the future. That I do not want - I have had two already since 2019.

As an example I have before me the results of the 2021 investigation into just 2 of my pensions.
13/12/19  - 26/12/19  2 weeks amount paid £50.49 amount due £50.44 recoverable 10p
27/12/19  - 16/1/20    3 weeks amount paid £50.37 amount due £50.32 recoverable 15p
etc etc 

racyguy

woodbine said:

We have approached this problem from so many angles I'm almost dizzy, just one comment on this thread, someone in their late 70's with in their words useless legs" is considering a job as a window cleaner, and yet they turned away help to sort out PC etc <shakes head>

No certainly not. It was an offer from a friend which I turned down.

racyguy

woodbine said:

Why do I do it, I'm back to this one; it's a relief to hear you turned them down, I'm not sure why you have such a problem. I am on benefits and also have a private pension in payment, once a year the DWP write and ask for proof of what the pension will be going forward I send them a copy of statement from the pension co. outlining that, job done. 

I have a total of five private pensions and yes I get an annual statement at the start of the year for each showing what the gross monthly payments going forward for the year will be. If that could be the end of it it would be simple for me.

I pay tax on all of my pensions under the PAYE system. The problem is not what the gross payments going forward  are but what the net payments are for all of them each month.
Now if tax was deducted in equal and exact amounts each month for all of them I would not be having my problem.

Unfortunately the tax system doesn't work like that. Each of the pensions each month vary by up to 25p some are less some are more than the previous month. The Pension Service as well as the DWP are aware of these differences and have told me that where the net pension payments for each one differs by more than 1p then I am required to submit evidence for each pension on a monthly basis showing what the difference is. They then would revise the Pension Credit award to reflect what the differences are each month.

To summarise I have to submit the evidence each month for each pension that is to produce the relevant bank statement and obtain a monthly payslip (which they do not do automatically). 5 statements each month + the relevant bank statements showing the credits (the pensions payments come at different times in the month).
 In total I have to obtain 60 pay slips each year and as many bank statements as are appropriate.
Then at the end of each year I have to submit 5 P60,s. I then have to review the Pension Credit payments for the year along with the 12 reviews and amendments that I have received during the year all to ensure that the level of the net income from my pensions is correct and that the Pension Services have taken into account all of these variances.
That's the work that I simply cannot dream of carrying out hence why since 2019 I have been through two compliance investigations because I never notified them of the actual levels of pension payments received.

It would be far simpler if the Pension Service would pay a fixed amount throughout the year and at the end of the year the P60,s and bank statements would disclose if there was an underpayment or an overpayment - but no they have refused to do that.
I was left in a situation where investigations would be a regular feature of my PC claim. I did not want that nor should i have to put up with it - hence I closed down the PC claim to give me some respite.  
 

calcotti

I think in your circumstances they should be taking some information and then averaging. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1043788/dmgch85.pdf

85037 If the claimant’s income fluctuates and has changed more than once, the weekly amount of a claimant’s income should be averaged1. The DM should average on the basis of

1. the last two payments if those payments are one month or more apart or

2. the last four payments, if the last two payments are less than one month apart or 

3. any other period if it means a more accurate weekly amount can be calculated.

They could then verify retrospectively if you gave them P60s after the year end.

Although I am saying this I realise that you have said PC refused to do this.

racyguy

woodbine said:

My only reply would be that if you want the benefits you have to jump through the hoops they put in front of you, something many of us on here are faced with.

And if you find that for some reason you are not able to do that - then what?

racyguy

Biblioklept said:

woodbine said:

My only reply would be that if you want the benefits you have to jump through the hoops they put in front of you, something many of us on here are faced with.

I'd say updating for 5 different pensions each month and evidence the fluctuations for the sake of a few pence are unreasonable hoops to expect of anyone to jump through. And they should have services in place to help when someone is unable. 

Back when things first got really bad for me I was completely unable to manage any sort of benefit claim and they sent a team of two people to come to my home and go through it and sort out the applications for me (this was for housing benefit, ESA and DLA). I had just suffered in extreme poverty for a long time until I received that help and no amount of desperation or need could suddenly mean I was able to put in and manage the claims myself. I was able-bodied, literate, educated and also completely incapable. 

@racyguy Tax credits used to use estimate or average and ask for evidence once a year. I don't see why PC can't do the same.  
It feels like there must be an easier way I just don't know it. Have you ever talked to Welfare Rights or Age UK? I know I absolutely could not jump through these hoops and would struggle like you do as a consequence.

Thanks, yes I have contacted both the CAB and AgeUK previously and both say that they no longer do outside visits. All that they can tell me is that the Pension Service are correct in what they are demanding although a little over the top with it.
 

racyguy

calcotti said:

I think in your circumstances they should be taking some information and then averaging. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1043788/dmgch85.pdf

85037 If the claimant’s income fluctuates and has changed more than once, the weekly amount of a claimant’s income should be averaged1. The DM should average on the basis of

1. the last two payments if those payments are one month or more apart or

2. the last four payments, if the last two payments are less than one month apart or 

3. any other period if it means a more accurate weekly amount can be calculated.

They could then verify retrospectively if you gave them P60s after the year end.

Although I am saying this I realise that you have said PC refused to do this.

Thanks - yes they did.
To me it looks very much like the Pension Service would prefer to revise awards monthly based exactly on what was the total net income in that month.
Their comment has always been that "I must notify them of any change even if it is only 1p"