PIP Online Application form. BE AWARE!
Jamiequinn1975
Community member Posts: 17 Contributor
Hi All!
I applied for PIP back in 2015, the old way by by completing a paper form and returning it to the DWP.
As many have probably encountered my application was denied so I took it to appeal.
As a project manager I had previously worked on a project for the DWP, EDF and Fujitsu (Fujitsu at the time were the I.T provider to the DWP, unsure if this is the case now).
At the time I suffered with a fluctuating primary condition which still today is not understood and there is no cure for.
I spend at least 100 days a year as an inpatient in hospital because my condition can be stabilised by receiving bag after bag of IV treatment, restableising my bloods.
On appeal, I wrote a 74 page document, which was basically a years diary documenting how many days a year I was 0%, 50% and 100% well.
I argued, knowing how certain departments worked in the DWP, that when I was well (0%), I can walk 100 yards, boil a kettle etc, so score me 0 for those days.
When I am unwell and in hospital (100%), dual canulated, attached to 4 bags of IV fluid and a heart monitor (that beeps every second; drives you mad.... 🙄). I wasn't walking anywhere or boiling a kettle for anyone, so score me maximum points for those days.
I averaged it all out and told the appeal board, (that I recall being a qualified doctor, some legal rep and someone from the DWP, not anyone of the street that receives a 17 day training course on how to be a decision maker with no medical training whatsoever), what I should have been scored.
Guess I had a lot of time on my hands then!
There was no way then the appeal board had any come back on what was put in front of them.
The initial decision was over turned, and I was awarded the maximum in both criteria.
Bad point : IT TOOK TWO YEARS TO GET IT OVERTURNED IN EVENTUALLY IN 2017.
Good point: THE PAYMENT WAS BACK DATED TO MY INITAL APPLICATION IN 2015!
I was only awarded it for a year and then I recievd a letter saying the DWP had changed the scoring criteria and I was no longer eligible for PIP. To be honest at that point I really couldn't be bothered to go through the whole process again, and didn't reapply.
However......I recently received a letter (PIP.7108, bottom right hand corner of letter). Informing me that from March 2017, there has been a change of how they make decisions and they could see I had been awarded PIP and should reapply.
I really wasn't supprised that the DWP were telling me they had changed their processes 5 years ago and thought they would let me know in 2022!
I decided to give it ago because my condition has only got worse since my claim awarded in 2017.
The letter tells you to call 0800 121 6579. DONT. That number tells you to call 0800 917 2222. DON'T. That number tells you to call the number on the letter.
Call 0800 121 4433, select the language you require (English is number 1) then wait for the options and select option 6. It will ask you to type or talk your date of birth and phone number in. (I always use the keypad to do this). Then just wait on hold for a couple of hours before a human picks up the call.
They will tell you that you can now apply electronically and ask you for an email address to send a link to.
THINGS TO BE AWARE OF......
1: It states at the top of the web page of the link they send you to complete, that 'This is a beta version, please tell us if you encounter any problems with this electronic form'.
Reading between the lines, and coming from a software background, this actually may as well read.....
'This is test software and we couldn't be bothered to test it properly, so could you the applicant, who by proxy we understand are ill or have a disability test it for us'
2: It states that if you can't complete this form in one session (fell off my seat laughing reading this, do they know how long it takes to fully complete a PIP application?) that you can save it and go back and change things. NO YOU CANT. If you start to fill it in, and the first section is 'tell us about your illness, what medication are you on and how it effects you'. You start to type in, and if like me have 10 different meds and lot's of side effects and you type in details and get to number 5 meds and think 'I'll have a cup of tea now, best save my progress' and you press the 'save and continue' button. The form saves what you have typed in uptill then, and goes to the next section. There is no way you can go back and add your meds number 6 to 10, whilst having the cup of tea you just made.
How fundamental is the ability to change things? Every online form I have ever filled in allows you to press the 'back button.
The only way around this is, if you need a break, DO NOT PRESS THE SAVE AND CONTINUE BUTTON, have a break for an hour and leave your computer on. The web form signs you out after an hour for security reasons.
You then can sign in again which requires your email address and password which in turn sends a 6 digit text to your phone to input and it will bring you back to the half completed page of the form you have gotten to.
2: The entire online application is limited to you entering in 5000 characters. So don't go typing in detail and find out halfway through the form that you have typed in 5000 characters because it throws up an error and you can't continue. The form doesn't have a 'character count' so unless you want a note pad by the side of you and make a note of how many letters including spaces you have typed you could find yourself in trouble towards the middle or end of the online application. AND REMEMBER YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND DELETE AND SLIM DOWN THE APPLICATION BECAUSE THE SOFTWARE WON'T LET YOU.
3: The online form asks you for your Dr or Specialist's name this is limited to 32 characters, again it throws up an error.
This was as far as I got and phoned the number I quoted earlier. I've told the unfortunate employee of the DWP that the online application is rubbish, it's obviously full of bugs and hasn't been tested and my 15 year-old son could do better, and write an online application with a ZX81 computer (for those of us that can remember ZX81's!)
Sheepishly, the employee of the DWP did reply 'yes, we are having a few calls about this'. Probably why I was on hold for 2 hours before I actually spoke to a human!
I do want to say, I do feel sorry for employee's of the DWP, and I'm not kicking them at all. It's been a really crazy couple of year's, with Covid and Rishi Sunak pulling different benefits out of nowhere and the DWP having a days notice to make payments they didn't understand. 6 million in fraud is estimated has been committed in claims during Covid, and now they don't know who and how long their boss will be. All a mess really.
So how I am now tackling this is....
Phone the DWP number, tell them that I was told to complete my application online and I'm having issues. They won't be supprised. Ask them to send you a paper application and ask them to send you another online application. They will ask you for a different email address if you have already been sent an online link to your normal email address because the application is tied to your email address. I used my mom's e-mail and forward it to my emai. Not supprisingly the DWP don't know how they can cancel a previous link sent to an already existing email address.
Wait for the paper copy of the PIP application to arrive and use this as a template to complete the online application, they should be identical, although I have seen claims online there are certain ambiguities in wordings of some questions between online and paper applications.
DONT EVEN START THE ONLINE APPLICATION LINK YET.
If capable open Microsoft Word if you have it on your PC, and use the paper copy of the PIP application as a guide and type your answers into Microsoft Word.
Microsoft word does give you a character count, so you don't have to count every letter and space you have typed, but more importantly you can go back and change answers to questions.
If happy with your answers to all the questions on the paper copy and it is under 5000 characters (word tells you in the bottom right hand corner character count). Cut copy and paste from MS Word into the online application to the relevant questions.
Your asked to upload evidence to back up your claims. The online application doesn't tell you in what format or even if there is a size limit of the file.
I haven't got that far yet, but I'm in my 6th day of scanning discharge letters from hospital, and if your GP is your primary career, my GP (my rock) allows me to book a double session with the surgery nurse and they can pull up my medical history and I can make notes or even take a photo of dates of admissions to hospital and GP referrals etc so I can document those.
I have it on good advice there is no size limit but have to be a *.PDF file.
I could carry on with advice, but I'll see if I get any replys to this post.
I may be ill but I'm not stupid.
Jay
I applied for PIP back in 2015, the old way by by completing a paper form and returning it to the DWP.
As many have probably encountered my application was denied so I took it to appeal.
As a project manager I had previously worked on a project for the DWP, EDF and Fujitsu (Fujitsu at the time were the I.T provider to the DWP, unsure if this is the case now).
At the time I suffered with a fluctuating primary condition which still today is not understood and there is no cure for.
I spend at least 100 days a year as an inpatient in hospital because my condition can be stabilised by receiving bag after bag of IV treatment, restableising my bloods.
On appeal, I wrote a 74 page document, which was basically a years diary documenting how many days a year I was 0%, 50% and 100% well.
I argued, knowing how certain departments worked in the DWP, that when I was well (0%), I can walk 100 yards, boil a kettle etc, so score me 0 for those days.
When I am unwell and in hospital (100%), dual canulated, attached to 4 bags of IV fluid and a heart monitor (that beeps every second; drives you mad.... 🙄). I wasn't walking anywhere or boiling a kettle for anyone, so score me maximum points for those days.
I averaged it all out and told the appeal board, (that I recall being a qualified doctor, some legal rep and someone from the DWP, not anyone of the street that receives a 17 day training course on how to be a decision maker with no medical training whatsoever), what I should have been scored.
Guess I had a lot of time on my hands then!
There was no way then the appeal board had any come back on what was put in front of them.
The initial decision was over turned, and I was awarded the maximum in both criteria.
Bad point : IT TOOK TWO YEARS TO GET IT OVERTURNED IN EVENTUALLY IN 2017.
Good point: THE PAYMENT WAS BACK DATED TO MY INITAL APPLICATION IN 2015!
I was only awarded it for a year and then I recievd a letter saying the DWP had changed the scoring criteria and I was no longer eligible for PIP. To be honest at that point I really couldn't be bothered to go through the whole process again, and didn't reapply.
However......I recently received a letter (PIP.7108, bottom right hand corner of letter). Informing me that from March 2017, there has been a change of how they make decisions and they could see I had been awarded PIP and should reapply.
I really wasn't supprised that the DWP were telling me they had changed their processes 5 years ago and thought they would let me know in 2022!
I decided to give it ago because my condition has only got worse since my claim awarded in 2017.
The letter tells you to call 0800 121 6579. DONT. That number tells you to call 0800 917 2222. DON'T. That number tells you to call the number on the letter.
Call 0800 121 4433, select the language you require (English is number 1) then wait for the options and select option 6. It will ask you to type or talk your date of birth and phone number in. (I always use the keypad to do this). Then just wait on hold for a couple of hours before a human picks up the call.
They will tell you that you can now apply electronically and ask you for an email address to send a link to.
THINGS TO BE AWARE OF......
1: It states at the top of the web page of the link they send you to complete, that 'This is a beta version, please tell us if you encounter any problems with this electronic form'.
Reading between the lines, and coming from a software background, this actually may as well read.....
'This is test software and we couldn't be bothered to test it properly, so could you the applicant, who by proxy we understand are ill or have a disability test it for us'
2: It states that if you can't complete this form in one session (fell off my seat laughing reading this, do they know how long it takes to fully complete a PIP application?) that you can save it and go back and change things. NO YOU CANT. If you start to fill it in, and the first section is 'tell us about your illness, what medication are you on and how it effects you'. You start to type in, and if like me have 10 different meds and lot's of side effects and you type in details and get to number 5 meds and think 'I'll have a cup of tea now, best save my progress' and you press the 'save and continue' button. The form saves what you have typed in uptill then, and goes to the next section. There is no way you can go back and add your meds number 6 to 10, whilst having the cup of tea you just made.
How fundamental is the ability to change things? Every online form I have ever filled in allows you to press the 'back button.
The only way around this is, if you need a break, DO NOT PRESS THE SAVE AND CONTINUE BUTTON, have a break for an hour and leave your computer on. The web form signs you out after an hour for security reasons.
You then can sign in again which requires your email address and password which in turn sends a 6 digit text to your phone to input and it will bring you back to the half completed page of the form you have gotten to.
2: The entire online application is limited to you entering in 5000 characters. So don't go typing in detail and find out halfway through the form that you have typed in 5000 characters because it throws up an error and you can't continue. The form doesn't have a 'character count' so unless you want a note pad by the side of you and make a note of how many letters including spaces you have typed you could find yourself in trouble towards the middle or end of the online application. AND REMEMBER YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND DELETE AND SLIM DOWN THE APPLICATION BECAUSE THE SOFTWARE WON'T LET YOU.
3: The online form asks you for your Dr or Specialist's name this is limited to 32 characters, again it throws up an error.
This was as far as I got and phoned the number I quoted earlier. I've told the unfortunate employee of the DWP that the online application is rubbish, it's obviously full of bugs and hasn't been tested and my 15 year-old son could do better, and write an online application with a ZX81 computer (for those of us that can remember ZX81's!)
Sheepishly, the employee of the DWP did reply 'yes, we are having a few calls about this'. Probably why I was on hold for 2 hours before I actually spoke to a human!
I do want to say, I do feel sorry for employee's of the DWP, and I'm not kicking them at all. It's been a really crazy couple of year's, with Covid and Rishi Sunak pulling different benefits out of nowhere and the DWP having a days notice to make payments they didn't understand. 6 million in fraud is estimated has been committed in claims during Covid, and now they don't know who and how long their boss will be. All a mess really.
So how I am now tackling this is....
Phone the DWP number, tell them that I was told to complete my application online and I'm having issues. They won't be supprised. Ask them to send you a paper application and ask them to send you another online application. They will ask you for a different email address if you have already been sent an online link to your normal email address because the application is tied to your email address. I used my mom's e-mail and forward it to my emai. Not supprisingly the DWP don't know how they can cancel a previous link sent to an already existing email address.
Wait for the paper copy of the PIP application to arrive and use this as a template to complete the online application, they should be identical, although I have seen claims online there are certain ambiguities in wordings of some questions between online and paper applications.
DONT EVEN START THE ONLINE APPLICATION LINK YET.
If capable open Microsoft Word if you have it on your PC, and use the paper copy of the PIP application as a guide and type your answers into Microsoft Word.
Microsoft word does give you a character count, so you don't have to count every letter and space you have typed, but more importantly you can go back and change answers to questions.
If happy with your answers to all the questions on the paper copy and it is under 5000 characters (word tells you in the bottom right hand corner character count). Cut copy and paste from MS Word into the online application to the relevant questions.
Your asked to upload evidence to back up your claims. The online application doesn't tell you in what format or even if there is a size limit of the file.
I haven't got that far yet, but I'm in my 6th day of scanning discharge letters from hospital, and if your GP is your primary career, my GP (my rock) allows me to book a double session with the surgery nurse and they can pull up my medical history and I can make notes or even take a photo of dates of admissions to hospital and GP referrals etc so I can document those.
I have it on good advice there is no size limit but have to be a *.PDF file.
I could carry on with advice, but I'll see if I get any replys to this post.
I may be ill but I'm not stupid.
Jay
8
Comments
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Wow. That was a long first post. Bring it on DWP 😁3
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Outstanding Jamie…what a fantastic post…had me in stitches and full of admiration for your tenacity and tech knowledge. I thank my lucky stars that I only had to do a paper application for PIP..and my daughter typed all my replies as my fingers had frozen up and gone into spasm after putting my address in! Can you imagine!! Double lucky stars..I’ve been awarded enhanced rate for both with a 10 year review period. Wonder how we’ll be assessed in 2032…maybe by the thought control computer programmes..or the teletubbies..one of the two . Way to go Jamie .1
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Good post the joys of the pip forms1
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I thought I was lucky to have the opportunity to use the online form. I didn’t notice that it was still in BETA although I was aware it wasn’t rolled out across the country yet.I didn’t come across any of the issues you mention. I was able to save and go back multiple times. I’ve even been able to use the system to send additional evidence after the form was submitted.I’m adding this as I thought it might be worth having a positive experience of the online system. Especially as I received the text from DWP to state they had received my application less than 24 hours after I had submitted it. It removed so much stress about having to write on paper and potentially interact with people to post the forms.I hope others get the positive experience too.1
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Hi Rin, great that you had a positive experience with the online application. I absolutely agree that it will be the best way forward, the problem is that; This might be a bit technical, the the DWP releasing a beta version, is not stated as beta version 1.0 any fixes or updates should be rolled out and logged as beta version 1.1, and so on and there should be a control document that states the changes made between Beta 1.0 and 1.1. Then we as users can see or challenge any fix that's apparently been made.
Again I'm not kicking the DWP at all, they have the tools they are given and whoever the IT it's outsourced to is at fault.
It's absolutely possible you were sent an updated version of the web link that I was sent, but there is no way, other than you and I sit side by side and simultaneously go through it at the same time and see if there's a difference.
Absolutely agree with your comments that this is a real step in the right direction. Hand written forms, then posting them and waiting for a letter back in the post is / was a nightmare and a waste of money and time. I was just posting my experience and problems I encountered.
Good luck with your application.
Keep us posted how you get on.
Jay2 -
I appreciate your experience. I was one of the Beta testers for Minecraft and won a lifetime membership the game across all PC versions. I’m incredibly computer orientated as I communicate so much better in the virtual world.Jamiequinn1975 said:Hi Rin, great that you had a positive experience with the online application. I absolutely agree that it will be the best way forward, the problem is that; This might be a bit technical, the the DWP releasing a beta version, is not stated as beta version 1.0 any fixes or updates should be rolled out and logged as beta version 1.1, and so on and there should be a control document that states the changes made between Beta 1.0 and 1.1. Then we as users can see or challenge any fix that's apparently been made.
Again I'm not kicking the DWP at all, they have the tools they are given and whoever the IT it's outsourced to is at fault.
It's absolutely possible you were sent an updated version of the web link that I was sent, but there is no way, other than you and I sit side by side and simultaneously go through it at the same time and see if there's a difference.
Absolutely agree with your comments that this is a real step in the right direction. Hand written forms, then posting them and waiting for a letter back in the post is / was a nightmare and a waste of money and time. I was just posting my experience and problems I encountered.
Good luck with your application.
Keep us posted how you get on.
JayI’m sad you clearly didn’t get the same experience as me. I wonder if it’s possible that different areas are trialling different versions of the electronic forms to see which works best? Or, as you say, I got an updated version.I do agree they shouldn’t be putting out a buggy version to those with disabilities to test.1 -
Rin! cool as. Biblioklept, cool as.....
I've replicated in word. it was 80905 words. Not 750.
Awarded it today!
Need a template?2 -
Hi Jamie. Thank you for posting this. I've been searching but couldn't find any info.
I'm filling in the form for the 1st time ever. I was putting in the ailments and realised I wanted to edit and couldn't go back. So I stopped. I didn't want to get to end, having spent all that time, and not be able to correct something at the beginning. It's pretty poor that you can't read the questions before or after. So you can make better judgement on how to fill it in. I have rang and asked for a paper copy. I feel the online version is designed to trip people up with their application. Can I just ask, how you got the paper copy into Microsoft word? I'm not too technical. thank you0 -
I spent weeks replicating it from the form into word. Email me and I'll send you the blank template (with a bit of legal stuff left in for each question).
[Removed by moderator: personal information]1 -
wow, thank you, have sent email0
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That's a lot of work. If you have a paper form you can simply tick the boxes, write see attached notes in each of the narrative text boxes and then append typed pages with your responses to each of the questions. Even if you've created a replica the original form must be returned.Jamiequinn1975 said:I spent weeks replicating it from the form into word.
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@Jamiequinn1975 personal information such as email addresses are not allowed here on the forum. You can see the rules here. https://www.scope.org.uk/community-house-rules/My advice is to edit your above comment to remove your email address. I flagged your comment to the scope team.
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Sorry Poppy. Just trying to help.
Any ideas where I can post template files so users can use it? I look the wrong way and I seem to be breaking rules on here. Just take it down.
calcotti. I did it because I did the application all online, I just included the whole application as evidence and referenced the page number(s) answers on the
Actual online form. No need to send form back, as I said I just used the paper form as reference.0 -
Hello @Jamiequinn1975
We just want to let you know we’ve edited your comment because it contained personal information. For more information about why we removed this, please consider our online community house rules.
All the best,
Alex
Online community team
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It's truly pathetic DWP have such an ancient approach to IT.
Anyone know if you can cancel online PIP application and begin again with a postal form?
if so, will they reset the clock or do we fill in by pen headless chicken fashion and rush down to post box.
I see this has been done to frustrate people. Imo.
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Hello OutOfTheWorld99
Sadly no. If you have submitted your online PIP2 Questionnaire then you cannot cancel that and request a PIP2 Form (to the best of my knowledge) The only way around that is to have your assesment and if you are not happy with the outcome put write a detailed Mandatory Reconsideration letter once you have the descision letter.OutOfTheWorld99 said:
Anyone know if you can cancel online PIP application and begin again with a postal form?
Personally I find the online system better and easier but there are people who would not. It is ideal for people who cannot get out of the house to post there forms and with the online system you know that every thing you include has been sent and there is no chance of it getting lost in the post. I always advise new claimants to do there research about PIP, the activitis and the descriptors and write there verbal evidence before they make the claim then they have a better chance at putting together a stronger claim with out the time constraints if they had made there claims before starting to compile the evidence for the PIP2 Questionnaire. (but that is just my personal advice and others may disagree)Nasturtium0 -
Hi @Jamiequinn1975, I can see your post is from a year ago, but I thought it is worth to tell people that right now, at least in my experience, online application is easy to save and continue later. I filled it up around month ago, and and it was great, I saved it few times, then came back later, changed some parts, no problem and no stress at all. It even lets you, after you submit it it, to add new evidence. I hate paper forms, so online form was great to me. I am so sorry you had such a bad experience, sometimes I read posts here and I just cannot believe that these things are happening, and people experiencing all this. Take care. Betty.0
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Jamiequinn1975
Hi Jay, did you eventually find out how to edit saved answers on the online PIP application? If so tell me how pleae, it's driving me bananas. I see some people say they are able to go back and edit and some seem not to be abe to.
I also notice it's still 'Beta' two years on… as you say, the DWP using us as guinea-pigs.
Someone probably got their 12-year-old to design the form to save money….
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Ahh the old limited characters thing, Interestingly it tends to be government or council forms that have these limitations, seems highly coincidental.
0
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