Wrong PIP award, mandatory reconsideration

Muttadiles
Muttadiles Community member Posts: 14 Listener
edited July 2022 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hi all, i applied for pip about 4 months ago and was only awarded lower mobility, on my decision letter they seem to have completely ignored some of the things i said and scored me 0 points on some things i shouldve got some. 
I have a couple of questions, when i ask for a mandatory reconsideration, if they agree with me and award me standard living rate will it be backdated to when i made the claim 4 months ago? It just doesnt seem fair they can ignored me on my original claim just to get out of paying me less backpay.
Other question is how long does mandatory reconsideration take?
Thanks in advance

Comments

  • Jamiequinn1975
    Jamiequinn1975 Community member Posts: 17 Contributor
    Yep. If overturned it's backdated to your original application date.
    How long? Took me two years and a lot of research on how your scored by a company that the DWP has outsourced the decision maker role to a company called Maximus.
    Just take your time, read online about the sneaky things, that might seem like just chitchat; but your being assessed from the time you enter the building; cctv covers all this.
    If your decision maker says 'your hair looks nice, when and where did you get it styled like that' and you stated on your application you suffer with anxiety, you'll get a big fat zero.
    'Do watch any soaps, my favourite is Eastenders' and you say 'yes,I love emmerdale', big fat zero because you have admitted to follow a complex story line.

    Good luck!
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,005 Championing
    The MR can take up to 12 weeks after you submit it.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 59,063 Championing
    Jamiequinn1975 said:

    How long? Took me two years and a lot of research on how your scored by a company that the DWP has outsourced the decision maker role to a company called Maximus.


    That's not correct. A decision maker is someone from DWP and nothing to do with the health assessment providers. DWP make decisions, not the HCP.


  • bg844
    bg844 Community member Posts: 3,883 Championing
    'Do watch any soaps, my favourite is Eastenders' and you say 'yes,I love emmerdale', big fat zero because you have admitted to follow a complex story line.
    Not correct.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 59,063 Championing
    bg844 said:
    'Do watch any soaps, my favourite is Eastenders' and you say 'yes,I love emmerdale', big fat zero because you have admitted to follow a complex story line.
    Not correct.

    Indeed. I should have quoted that in my reply too but it was early and before i'd had my first cuppa. :D Complex storylines are not part of the PIP descriptors. Complex information isn't part of any of the descriptors/activities.
  • flour
    flour Community member Posts: 89 Contributor
    edited July 2022
    bg844 said:
    'Do watch any soaps, my favourite is Eastenders' and you say 'yes,I love emmerdale', big fat zero because you have admitted to follow a complex story line.
    Not correct.
    poppy123456 said:
    bg844 said:
    'Do watch any soaps, my favourite is Eastenders' and you say 'yes,I love emmerdale', big fat zero because you have admitted to follow a complex story line.
    Not correct.

    Indeed. I should have quoted that in my reply too but it was early and before i'd had my first cuppa. :D Complex storylines are not part of the PIP descriptors. Complex information isn't part of any of the descriptors/activities.

    I disagree about complex information. This is part of at least one of the descriptors/actives.

    This is in descriptor '7'

    This descriptor is about 'Communicating verbally' and it says

    'understand complex verbal information'.

    It says this in descriptor 'c'. 

    It may not be beyond the reach of a PIP assessor to use whatever information they have to hand. Including saying that they have 'the ability to follow a complex TV programme story line' to then reach the conclusion that someone can only follow the complex story line by being able to 'understand complex verbal information' communicated by the TV story line. 

    And in turn state that they can 'Can express and understand verbal information unaided' in descriptor 'a'. This may have been an assessment of low quality if this was all that was considered because no detail was provided about 'expressing' which also needs to be satisfied for descriptor 'a'.

    I am not saying that anyone can now be found capable of communicating verbally because they can follow the plot of a TV programme. 

    I am saying that that 'complex information' does appear in one descriptor within PIP and I have tried to think about how that might have happened with a TV programme.


    Further more complex information is also in descriptor '8' 'Reading and understanding signs, symbols and words' although this in written form.

    And complex thought process also appears in descriptor '10' '    Making budgeting decisions'. 

    Complex information is definitely part of PIP be it in written or verbal form.
  • Jamiequinn1975
    Jamiequinn1975 Community member Posts: 17 Contributor
    Bg844. A reply of 'not correct' with no explanation of what you believe is 'correct' isn't really helpful now, is it.

    Poppy, pour yourself another cuppa. I think you will find that, and I quote.
    Activity 7. Communicating verbally. For 4 points, states (the applicant) needs communication support to be able express OR UNDERSTAND COMPLEX VERBAL INFORMATION....I.e
    I'm not here to post incorrect info, so please don't make me out to be someone that doesn't know what he's talking about.
    Appology accepted. 

    bg844.
    I could have worded it better. The DWP calls it the Independent Advisory Service, I.e 'Independent' from the DWP. Could be Atos, could be, Capita, could be Maximus but either way it's a third party company that carries out health assessments and scores the applicant, (on behalf of the DWP). In turn this is then sent to a 'decision' maker at the DWP to do sums that is equal to X+X+X+X+; you get the point?

    From rightsnet....

    It has been reported this week by Rightsnet that the work capability assessment contract with Maximus has been extended by two years to 31 July 2023. The continuation of contract will supposedly ‘secure service continuity and stability’ whilst at the same time allowing the transfer of caseloads and services into a unified assessment service trial.

    The DWP (Department of Works And Pensions) have also confirmed that they have extended the existing contract with Maximus UK Services Ltd to provide work capability assessments for employment and support allowance (ESA) and universal credit. This will continue for an additional two years to 31 July 2023.

    The DWP have had plans to create a unified, integrated assessment service from 1 August 2021.

    The DWPs plans to merge the separate PIP (Personal Independence Payments) health assessments and work capability assessments, ESA (Employment and Support Allowance and universal credit, were put on hold last year as a result of the Covid-19 outbreak .

    This was confirmed earlier this year in a written statement to Parliament in July 2020, quoting ‘We recognise that it is vital for our claimants to have a safe and stable service. Consequently, my Department intends to explore options to extend the current contracts for up to two years, which will ensure continuity of services when the current contracts end on 31 July 2021.

    Jamie x 

  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,005 Championing
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
    Basic verbal information is information conveyed in a simple sentence: “Can I help you?”, “I would like tea please”, “I came home today”, “The time is 3 o’clock”.

    Complex verbal information is information conveyed in either more than one sentence or one complicated sentence, for example: “I would like tea please, just a splash of milk and no sugar, as I always have sweeteners with me for when I go out”.
    Following the narrative of a soap really doesn’t come into it.

  • Jamiequinn1975
    Jamiequinn1975 Community member Posts: 17 Contributor
    Thanks Flour.
    Like in previous posts I've made on here; which isn't a lot.
    I'm just trying to say that the process applying for PIP and how it is scored, by design is full of ambiguity and open to interpretation.
    Understanding this helps especially in an appeal decision The applicant can request to see why they were denied and were scored on their first application.
    It then gives the applicant the time to be able to prepare a coherent appeal with evidence that proves or disproves the original decision(s).

    Jamie. 
  • Jamiequinn1975
    Jamiequinn1975 Community member Posts: 17 Contributor
    Calcotti,
    Surely it does if someone on a soap is asking 'would you like a drink? And in reply someone states “I would like tea please, just a splash of milk and no sugar, as I always have sweeteners with me for when I go out”. 😋

    Jamie
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 59,063 Championing
    I'm sorry @flour but i couldn't disagree more. I have no idea why you think watching a soap has anything at all to do with any of the PIP descriptors.

    @Jamiequinn1975 thanks but i've had plenty of cuppa's today and i don't need anymore. The information you gave here..
    Jamiequinn1975 said:

    How long? Took me two years and a lot of research on how your scored by a company that the DWP has outsourced the decision maker role to a company called Maximus.

    Is not correct. I stand by what i said, DWP decision makers make decision's not the HCP.

  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 5,330 Championing
    edited July 2022
    poppy123456 said:
    I'm sorry @flour but i couldn't disagree more. I have no idea why you think watching a soap has anything at all to do with any of the PIP descriptors.

    When I first transferred from DLA to PIP they used that I watched TV coupled with answering "in my house" when asked where I lived in as evidence in report that I could understand verbal information and instruction.
    I'm not saying that it should, as I don't agree and think you're right that it shouldn't have anything to do with the PIP descriptors, but we all know they do stupid things and doesn't surprise me if it still happens. My whole report was full of corkers like that. 
    Such as: I was of average weight so could prepare a meal. My hair was "wet looking" and I was home alone, so I could bath unaided (it was actually just really greasy from not washing  :D and the report also stated I had my partner there with me, so how was he with me but I was also alone?) And that when he offered me his ID, I looked at it so I understood signs, symbols and written information.

    It was the first time I ever scored a zero and the report still makes me cry and laugh now. 
  • flour
    flour Community member Posts: 89 Contributor
    edited July 2022
    poppy123456 said:
    I'm sorry @flour but i couldn't disagree more. I have no idea why you think watching a soap has anything at all to do with any of the PIP descriptors. 
    Poppy please read my reply again.

    You said: "Complex information isn't part of any of the descriptors/activities"

    I said: "    I disagree. This is part of at least one of the descriptors/actives. This is in descriptor '7' 'Communicating verbally' and it says 'understand complex verbal information'."


    Later on, you said "I have no idea why you think watching a soap has anything at all to do with any of the PIP descriptors"

    However, earlier I said " It may not be beyond the reach of a PIP assessor to reach the conclusion that someone can only follow the complex story line by being able to 'understand complex verbal information' communicated by the TV story line. 

    Further I went on to say "I am not saying that anyone can now be found capable of communicating verbally because they can follow the plot of a TV programme. "

    I hope that explains what I meant. I said that a PIP assessor might have thought that a TV soap has something to do with the PIP descriptors. And, I was then saying how I thought that might have happened. 

    I am of the opinion it is very much possible that was written in the report, I believe the poster on this thread and in the case of a low quality assessment is exactly the type of comment by a HCP you might expect.
  • Jamiequinn1975
    Jamiequinn1975 Community member Posts: 17 Contributor
    edited July 2022
    Again, thank you flour and biblioklopt for being my wingman (person or man).
    Really didn't think I'd get so many replys to my first post to muttadiles original post.
    I posted my experience and knowledge, and tried to whoever 'muttadiles' is to appeal.

    I have, like us all have experienced, being disappointed, or tenacity to a question, a 'decision maker's' opinion.

    '(Removed by moderator, poor tone)',  I'm not here to make you look uneducated and miss informed'.

    Bibloklept. I (along with many other secondary illnesses) suffer with, mental, and physical problems.
    Appealing them makes them worse. I always say 'I may be I'll but I'm not stupid.
    I suffer with unevalis alopica. 
    I was beaten up at school when I was 14. I had a really bad.(if bad describes it) a head injury.
    Since then....
    My white blood cells have a meeting each morning and they decide which organ is a threat and they will, have a vote, and go for it. The past 30 years, white cell commander chief has declared war on my hair cells.  
    As quick as my body makes hair cells my white cell's kicks off big time. (I now refer to them as my Putin cells)!
    But sometimes by body attacks normal things, whilst inviting Mr covid or chicken pox delegates are invited to sit down and have a cup of tea with my white blood commander.

    I do appreciate all comments bad or good.  All I can do is try to make you smile and understand there is so many of us that are the same but different.

    J x

  • Ross_Alumni
    Ross_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,611 Championing

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