Hi, my name is Star03! I have just been dismissed on ill health grounds

Star03

I have a few conditions and have just been dismissed on ill health grounds, weeks before i was due to start a Phased Return to work.
Needing advice (and support) given the fear and confusion I am now experiencing, including difficulty with finding another job due to being deskilled whilst awaiting Reasonable Adjustments over the last year(s). Feeling at a loss and MUST get another job, due to employability impacts of being fired rather than being allowed to return in September. 

Star03

PS - Anyone that can offer any advice from legal/employability rights perspective would be great! 

Am going through Dismissal Appeal process but NOT confident of my prospects given the huge case current manager has put together, AND even if i did get it overturned I have lost all trust in the workplace! Just feel trapped into working there due to needing to be retrained and due to my RA needs..

Please please advise (you can probably hear the despair and worry in my typing!). Thank you

poppy123456

We have a member with with quite a lot of experience and knowledge with HR so i hope she will be able to point you in the right direction. @janer1967 could you help here please and sorry to tag you.

janer1967

@poppy123456 thanks for the tag 

Being dismissed on health grounds isn't looked at in a negative light by all employers you haven't done anything wrong just means you were unfit to return to work in near future 

If you can show new employers you are now fit to return to work then they should be satisfied but there maybe issues if they ask for ref and details of absence history 

As for your current appeal do you have a union or if not.conract acas 

It's hard to advise further as I don't know much eg your company policy , how long you have been off work what is your job and what is reason for absence your length service etc 

Have you seen oh and what have they reconnended 

Sorry for so many questions only trying to find out in order to help 

Star03

I was due to return this week (Sep) and had already drafted my Phased return plan (without help from management). Lack of management input so close to my return date increased my anxiety (over returning without a support plan in place). Took 13 months to get my home desk corrected to a lower one. Other RAs still need to be made.

OHS report wasn't produced properly as assessor left and replacement wouldn't make corrections. Manager refused to make another referral despite it being a condition to her seeing current incorrect one.

Was off sick from mid Oct 2021 due to my conditions getting worsened or me getting harmed whilst being forced to work without my RAs fully implemented/corrected. Was waiting since Jan 2020 for the adjustments to take place.

Have a union rep to help with the Appeal but feel extremely low on hope due to the way management have grouped very distinct and non-future determining instances of sickness together over the last 5 years (coma, etc). 

Can you be dismissed on ill-health in mid Aug when you were about to return on 1st Sept, because workplace have finally put in place most physical RA, AND you're no way unwell enough to meet lower tier of ill heath retirement (IHR)? 

Being more open about how lack of help from workplace to get RAs in place is impacting my mental health has been used against me, including GP fit notes. Closer I got to return date without input I needed from.interim manager, the more unwell I felt (NO agreed retraining, upskilling, re-induction and managed moved in the 12-week plan Union and Mental Health network have been askinf fir aince 2021). Now I've been dismissed just as I should have returned after a year of fighting for adjustments. 

Feel I can't go for another Job as workplace was meant to reskil me, plus trauma of workplace attitude towards me, After me trying to return from Shielding (which I couldn't work through due to workplace failure to put adjustments in place to allow home-working).

Feeling exhausted, emotionally drained but also confused about what my realistic options are. Also wondering what my options are if I miraculously DO get dismissal overturned with offer of reinstatement - What to do if i am too traumatised by my treatment most Shielding - Do I ask fore the managed move (after retraining), or is there compensation I can get instead and move on somhow with my life and career elsewhere?

One option gives me nore financial income again, and the other one may mean im unemployed for much longer (and wern less later) but potentially LESS traumatised or victimised by current workplace (civil service).

Please can you advise. Am so worried about my immediate future (esp in the current crisis) that I sometimes feel stuck by fear.

janer1967

Again what is your job and what condotion have you been off sick with.

Also how long have you worked there and how old are you 

I can't advise much on if they can dismiss you as they have to follow their own policy as long as that falls within the law 

Your union rep should know the company policy in place 

They can take your complete absence history into account as they look at any patterns and the likelihood of future absence based on history 

Part of anyones contract is to attend work on a regular basis and the company will state in policy what an acceptable level of absence is 

Generally more than 3 absences in 12 months starts the trigger for action or period of absence over 3 months some leave it 6 months 

Speak to your union rep about discrimination and not putting ra in place if this has delayed your return to work 

Star03

Thank you Janer.

I was off sick with anxiety (due to not having RAs in place and a very unhelpful new manager I was given).
Been working since 2008. Am 41. Permanent civil servant. 
Covered by Equality Act due to complex set of medical conditions and disability, only off sick for transplant op, a freak coma due to Pneumonia,..recently anxiety from being forced to work without RAs in place ending up with physical harm etc. Forced on sick leave as workplace unilateral withdrew disability leave before setting me up for home-working.

I have a union rep. Just need some ideas on what my options are should Dismissal Appeal be unsuccessful- can I apply for another CS job? How will my CS benefits for continuous service be impacted? What options do I have in terms benefits and retraining to go into a different field etc? Can I take some more than off to psychologically recover from the mindgames/ being tricked by the manager just before my return? Will it count against me if I take time out for my health and "wellbeing" given my workplace have wasted my time since early 2021 and throughout (me working all throughout "sick leave" just to get management to push ahead with RA corrections).

Any advice/info you can give would be much appreciated.

I'm extremely worried about future discrimination should I be so open about my mental health. 

Thank you.

janer1967

I'm not very familiar with civil service policy 

It is unlikely you would be employed by them again though sometimes re-employment is option after a period of time 
Normally benefits will end on dismissal and if re employed would start from scratch 

As for benefits @poppy123456 is the best to advise 

I would advise taking sometime out before considering a new job. But that depends on your situation but get yourself set up on job sites etc 

See what training is out there eg job centre or elearning or even voluntary work 

You may also want to consider a tribunal claim if you think your dismissal is unfair speak to union or acas this is no quick process though 

iza

Hi, I was in similar situation in the past. I asked ACAS for help. I agreed to leave company on medical ground as long as they will paid me all money they owed me. Than I registered for benefits and it took me 5 years including Tribunal case against DWP  just to get ESA benefit.  

But if my employer would be difficult in negotiations before we came to agreement I showed them  that nothing will stop me to take them to the employment Tribunal as I proved to  them (in one of my letters ) where exactly the CEO of  that company made a mistake in interpretation of company polices. 

My advice here will be for you to step back, read one more time all polices, think if they didn’t make any mistake in interpretation of documents in according to your current case. 

Perhaps they did made mistake in interpretation and it would be situation which could benefit your  case than seek ACAS help directly and see what negotiations could bring as solution. 

If they want dismiss you don’t be afraid take them to Tribunal you have a legal rights to do that. 

Otherwise, if they dismiss you and you will not refer them to the Employment Tribunal you have only probably couple options to choose from:   either you look for new job ( and it can be long process) so at some point you may have to register as unemployed or you apply for the benefit due to the sickness and again you are not sure how the life progresses here either ( I think @poppy123456 would be able to advise you on it later here, as everywhere the old system of benefit is replaced by Universal Credit).  

The other potential options are that you are opening your own Ltd company ( if you are able to do that and for example advise others based of your professional skills and previously hold positions in life ) or you become depended on family. 

So, perhaps now you can  🤔 see from the perspective  of scenarios I draw here what you are about to loose and see realistically how much all is worthy to fight for.

 Don’t be afraid to fight for your rights now because only you know how much dismissal can affect you and your financial budget in very close future. 

If you are still not sure I would go to the future teller who can look into Tarot to advise you on what stars ⭐️ recommend here as well. 

Don’t be afraid all politicians, heads of the countries, celebrities of these world do it too. They all go to professional future tellers to seek for advices too ( life matters, carrier, financial fortune, love …. and so more). 

poppy123456

For the benefits entitlement, if you're no longer claiming SSP and you've paid the correct amount of NI contirbutions in tax years April 2019 to March 2021 then you can claim New style ESA. You will need a fit note and the SSP1 form to be able to claim this.

It pays £77/week (paid fortnightly) If placed into the Support Group you'll be entitled to extra money from the 14th week of your claim (£117.60/week) https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance

There's also Universal Credit but it's a means tested benefit so if you live with a partner you'll need to claim as a couple and your joint circumstances will be taken into consideration. If you have savings/capital of more than £16,000 you'll be excluded from claiming.

If you claim both of those together the ESA will be deducted from any UC entitlement.

There's also PIP, which isn't means tested. It's a disability benefit. Whether you're entitled to it will depend on exactly how your conditions affect you against the 12 PIP activities. More information in links. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/

https://pipinfo.net/