Had my tribunal today

Zoey92

Hi guys,

Thought I'd update you on what happened at my tribunal today.

I don't think it went well to be honest. I got the impression from the 2 panelists that they didnt believe me. But I guess I have to wait for the letter of decision. But I left there feeling very disheartened. And I also went alone.

The dr threw me off my trail of thought a few times by bringing up different dates and confused as he jumped from end of 2021 to middle of 2022 then back to 2021 and I feel like I may have answered something i already answered to a different question because i was confused. But he kept bringing up the first thing he asked me. I got very nervous as I felt like he trying to get something specific from me that would go against me somehow. I didn't get a chance to say all I wanted to say i had notes and probably said 3 out of 9. I know I probably shouldn't of but i felt so defeated so i just added at the end about the assessor took note that I said I get help but didn't score me based on that at all. I quoted the descriptor to them and page numbers. Hopeful that makes the slightest bit difference in a decision after all I missed out on standard rate by 1 point.

Will update you all when it comes through I guess but I'm not very confident 

Zoey92

I will let you know. Yeah I'm just reading everyone else's experience with it. Trouble is the royal mail strike is gonna keep me waiting and wondering for longer now 🤣
I've read sometimes money goes in before you receive a decision letter and also read dwp call and confirm details so I don't know the process now as I feel its different for many people 

poppy123456

The next Royal Mail strikes are 8/9 September. HMCTS usually send out the decision letter very quickly after the hearing so you should receive it within the next few days. 

There’s other members here that thought their hearing didn’t go well, we had one just a couple of weeks ago. They went on to he successfully awarded. 

If there is an award it can take up to 8 weeks sometimes longer to pay what is owed and to put any award into payment. 

Zoey92

Oh I thought strikes were happening right now! Woops. I guess that's good that I won't have to wait too long to find out. Hopefully by Monday(latest) I should have an answer then 

poppy123456

Zoey92 said:

Oh I thought strikes were happening right now! Woops. 

No, they were on strike last week, yesterday and again next week. https://www.royalmail.com/latest-news

Zoey92

Well I just logged into the tribunal tracker thing and saw they uploaded a document that clearly states "appeal is refused" I was not awarded any new points.
However I need to request the full report from the tribunal as I'm not understanding how they can change the descriptor for washing and bathing to assistance with hardly any mention of it at tribunal but not the food preparation to assistance. I explained all my struggles with preparing food. One of the panels was telling me about electric can openers and chopping machines which i stated i dont have nor can i afford. How could they change that and not the other? 

Does anyone have advice on appealing the tribunals decision? And how successful it is? Should I even bother?

poppy123456

You need to wait for the decision letter rather than rely on what you’ve seen on the tracker. For security reasons I’m not aware of them being able to give the decision in another way apart from the letter.
If you’ve been refused you can’t just appeal because you disagree with the decision. You need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings within 1 month of the date of the decision. 

There’s no timescales how long it will take to receive them but once they are sent you will have one month to appeal. 

Once you receive these you need to find someone to have a look to see if they can find the error in law. If that’s not found you won’t be able to take this any further. 

You would need to find an advice agency other than citizens advice because I know this is beyond the help they give. 

It’s not a straight forward process and can take well in excess of a year. 

Zoey92

Hi, 
Apologies as I was a bit upset I feel I came across rude. I am yet to receive that decision letter so I can request a sor. I also want to request the audio recording as they stated i could in the hearing because ive been dwelling on it and remember being cut off at least twice by the dr whilst i tried to explain something he questioned. I also dont even know what an error in law is and dont even know who i can ask to look through it to see if there is one. Is this likely a solicitor? If I explain a couple things i remember could someone tell me if it's an example of error of law that would be accepted? (I'm so sorry to trouble you all I feel like I'm annoying you all with questions I struggle understanding things and need them "dumbed down" for me)

I was asked about being signed of work 10 months before my claim and when I stated it had nothing to do with my condition and it was before I applied for pip, he began to ask me about days off that year and wanted a rough answer so as I was thinking and saying "I'd say about ...ermm"  he began another question about it. So he didn't let me answer it. (As I said it was an interrogation) 

The other person told me that I grip a steering wheel. And when I tried to explain the different kinds of grips (which is the struggle getting dwp to understand and listen to this) she smiled nodded and wrote on her paper and told the judge I don't have anymore before I could even answer. 

This was why I felt like it didn't go well and why all my anxiety came to the point I could not speak no more(I mentioned before not having a voice and this is why) 

But ive seen challenging isnt very successful but I've had a couple days to think. It was stated in the tribunal anything new since my mrn date can't be taken into account and I have had a change in circumstances (now unable to do something i could when i had my asses)
I am wondering if I am able to re apply and if so, how soon after can I apply?  

poppy123456

You don't need a solicitor to check the SOR or ROP because they will likely charge you anyway and their knowledge on this could be lacking. You need to an advice agency like welfare rights or a law centre. You can check what's local to you here. https://advicelocal.uk/

What you mentioned above doesn't sound like an error in law to me but you'll need to wait until you receive both of the above because otherwise you'll continue to 2nd guess yourself. You'll be amazed how much we forget when going to things like assessments and hearings.

There's no timescales how long you need to wait to reapply but doing this and using the same evidence again will likely see another refusal and you'll be back to square one again. My advice is to speak to an advice agency to check it's possible to score enough points needed for an award.

I'm not saying you don't qualify because i don't know anything about your conditions and how they affect you but there are some people that don't qualify because if you don't meet the descriptors, you won't score the points needed for an award.

Zoey92

Thank you I will have a search on that link now. 

There will be extra medical evidence to submit and new prescriptions and consultation notes in the new application aswell as a new potential activity etc that's why I'm thinking to just do it again. 

I do understand some people don't qualify if they don't meet the descriptors, however i feel i do meet descriptors and qualify. I know I'm yet to read the report but the way they were talking (and i will not be surprised if its written in the sor) was essentially saying without saying I can hold a steering wheel so I can hold a knife to chop vegetables despite my hands and fingers being in 2 different positions for both and requiring different types of pressure. My hand naturally resting is with my fingers curled in almost a fist. So its a natural position for my hand on a steering wheel when i drive a car. This is the thing I am struggling to explain to DWP and get them to understand. I don't mind explaining my condition as i feel this is a safe space.
I have osteoarthritis in my right hand(undiagnosed in my left but started to experience same symptoms in left just not progressed as much like my right yet) i experience pain and numbness when i used to do certain activitys such as chopping an onion or anything like that. I am not very good explaining things in general but if I can get one person to understand I will probably cry of happiness. 

poppy123456

I’ve heard of the steering wheel reason for grip against other activities and not just preparing food. I couldn’t remember where I seen it but it was likely to be on here with a past member, who I have learnt a lot from over the years.
From that a did a Google search to see what it came up with and found this https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/14378/#67635
Well worth having a read because there’s some very good advice on there. 

I think evidence such as prescription list and consultation notes isn’t the way forward because none of those are going to tell them exactly how your conditions affect you. 

The way forward here is for you to tell them all of the details, as described in the link above. Tell them what exactly happens when you attempt to complete that activity by giving those real world examples I mentioned in a previous thread of yours. 

You don’t need to go into detail with your life story, just be straight to the point. You will need to do this with all the descriptors that apply because it’s a new claim. 

There’s no reason why you can’t spend time writing up some notes before you ring to start another claim. Just do a little at a time. Then when you receive the forms you will be one step ahead. 

In the meantime, if I find anything else I’ll make sure to comment on your thread here. 

Good luck!

nasturtium

I agree with what poppy said. I would also like to put forward a suggestion. It is only a suggestion and advice and you do not need to do this at all but I was helping someone with there PIP claim and they lost at tribunal. They where totally devistated and gutted including myself also but what we did was to request a SOR and ROP (Recording of Proceedings) and I am pleased we did. It was a Gold mine for identifying errors we made and it has been very useful on where we went wrong. We are compiling another claim but we are doing it slowly and making sure we understand what we are doing and what the activities are and the respected descriptors with those activities.

Like I said the above is only advice but if you want to make a new claim sooner Then it is advised that you get help with compiling the new claim from your local welfare advice agency or the CAB.

Zoey92

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate it 

Alex_Alumni

Hello @Zoey92 I just wanted to wish you all the best for a positive outcome with the Tribunal, and whatever the decision, the community is here to help

Keep us updated when you've heard more, and I hope you're having a nice weekend despite the wait. 

nasturtium

"If timelines is something you struggle regularly, try to keep your facts simple , to the point, without too many details, and do not mask or filter your frustration and struggle when you are asked to repeat youself, let them see it affects you"

A disability diary would cover this and it would be key supporting evidence better than medical evidence. (but alway include this but make sure any medical evidence (IF you can remember its not essential) SUPPORTS your claim without contradictions) Keep the diary for lets say 10 days but make a diary for as long as you can do. Make sure the diary focuses on the problems you have and it supports the descriptors. For example I woke up at 9am and I used my dosset box to aid me to take my tables..... yadda yadda. A day in a life statement wil also help if you cannot do diaries! If you have friends or family they can give supporting letter detailing the problems you have and the help you need.

A disability diary does not need to be about a physical disabbility it can prove to be vital for a claim for mental health claim. Mental health is a disability and I speak as a sufferer (but not claiming).

nasturtium

[Removed by moderator - upon request of original commenter]

poppy123456

Letters from people that know you well can sometimes help but the only person that really knows exactly how your conditions affect you is yourself. For this reason you shouldn't forget to include the most important thing of all... those real world incidents i meantioned earlier in the thread.

Cartini

Deppi said:

 a public department does not respect the law or feels above it. The way the DWP operates is decided at the parliament and becomes a law.

I agree with this comment; the DWP are working to constraints set by people a lot further up the ladder.  Usually people further up the ladder have no working understanding of processes that they implement.

Cartini

poppy123456 said:

I’ve heard of the steering wheel reason for grip against other activities and not just preparing food. I couldn’t remember where I seen it but it was likely to be on here with a past member, who I have learnt a lot from over the years.

Hi poppy,

If I can just jump in.....

Could you have seen this thread on Benefits and Work?

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-esa-queries-results/138543-pip-and-driving

And

poppy123456 said:

"I think evidence such as prescription list and consultation notes isn’t the way forward because none of those are going to tell them exactly how your conditions affect you."

I used a prescription list in conjunction with a dosette box and my mobile phone in my PIP2.  I had a fractured skull and brain damage 20 odd years ago, as a result my memory isn`t what it could, or should, be.  Because of this I use I use my phone as a reminder to take my medication (and like most members, if not all, of this forum I take quite a lot of medication throughout the day).

I`m not trying to undermine you, I don`t play those "games"; I`m just putting this forward in case Zoey92 might be able to make use of my input.

Andy

poppy123456

Cartini thanks for the link but that wasn’t where I seen it. 

Thanks also for the other advice. It may come in useful for Zoey. 

nasturtium

Hello Deppi

Please accept my sincere appologies for any offence or upset that my quoting you has caused. I did not in anyway intend to undermine or offend your occupation. I have reported my own post to the Scope forum and I have ask them to remove my post. I would NEVER go out purposefully to offend or upset someone because it is not in my nature to do that. Sometimes my replies can come over a little strong or sound a little strange but I can assure you there is never meant to be any ill feeling or hate with my replies. I try to help and advise where I can although it is not always correct advise I try. I also never meant that the DWP does not work within the law my statement was meant as just a lighthearted observation and I honestly did not think you would have taken it as seriously as you did or I would have not have made that statement or comment. I respect that all Govermental bodies work withing the Law and they have too. The DWP does alot of good work but sadly we only hear the bad stories or the mistakes that do happen in large orgonisations. Anyway I have appoligised and have requested the scope mods to remove my reply.

Kind regards

Nasturtium