Are people who work for UC / DWP ... Incompetent?

Skyra64

Are people who work for UC / DWP ... untrained, incompetent?

OR maybe it's just me?

Male, 65 year old, Claiming benefits for wife and 2 children (11, 15).

Partially sighted. Diabetic. Mental and other Health issues.

Was receiving ESA (Income-Related), and placed in the LCWRA Support Group.

March 2022 - House roof was leaking. Needed money.

Rang Citizens Advice for possible repair grant or loan.

Citizens Advice checked my circumstances and suggested I would be:

1. Slightly better off claiming Universal Credit (About £10)

2. I would be offered a loan (£1,000) which can be repaid back over two years.

3. I would get ESA benefit run-over for 2 weeks (£500+).

4. (I later learned that the Government has also a top-up scheme in-place which ensures no-one is worse off if they move from ESA to UC. Automatically transfers LCWRA to UC, without having to be re-assessed).

3rd April 2022 - A joint claim (Me and my wife) was made for Universal Credit.

4th April 2022 - Journal message was recieved. Attend a phone Biographical appointment (5th April) to confirm my ID.

5th April 2022 - UC rang and checked my details (Initial Biographical appointment).

I then had a disussion with her. Asked for some advice. The conversation went like this:

Me:

I am married with two children, getting Income-related ESA and LCWRA.

I have been advised to move to UC by Citizens Advic. Are you able to tell me what i'll get, to make sure I'm doing the right thing?

UC:

OK, I'll see what I can do.

(She proceeded to give me figures for a married couple and children).

Me:

OK. Your figures match CA's figures. I'm especially interested in LCWRA aspect.

I've seen two figures online, one for £132 and one for £354. Which one will I get?

 

UC:

Oh, you won't be getting the £354. You might get the £132

(She said the first part with such confidence that I had no reason to doubt her.

It made me think I was making a huge mistake by moving to UC)

Me:

If that is the case, I'll be worse off. I'm already under financial stress.

Will it be better if I don't proceed with this claim and stay on ESA?

UC:

Seems that way.

Me:

What do I have to do to not proceed with this claim?

UC:

Make a journal entry asking to close the claim and which date from.

Me:

Does my wife need to do this too? I made this claim on the 3rd, should I write that date?

UC:

No, your wife doesn't have to. Stop the claim from todays date.

Me:

OK. I will do that straight away.

I put the phone down.

Journal entry Me:

Hi - I have just spoken to you on the phone and after receiving more information we have decided to 

close our claim for universal Credit (For both myself and my wife).

After I did that, I noticed she had already, beforehand, sent me a message:

Journal entry UC:

After checking with a manager, we do need written confirmation from both yourself and your wife.

Journal entry Me:

Do you mean you need it in writing? Where do we post the letter to?

Journal entry UC:

No I just mean we also need your wife to log into her account and confirm the same message.

Confirmation of claim closure, date of claim closure, and reason why.

Journal entry Me:

I wish to close my claim for Universal Credit, from today 5th April 2022, since I am already recieving ESA.

Journal entry Wife:

I wish to close my claim for Universal Credit, from today 5th April 2022, since I am already recieving ESA.

Claim for UC was closed down. I did not expect or forsee any problems. However:

19th April 2022 - I received a letter from Child Tax Credit saying payments have been stopped from the 2nd April, due to a claim for UC on the 3rd April. And there was no way to go back.

19th April 2022 - I rang ESA, who informeed me my claim was still active. They advised me to ring Child Tax Credit people and try to resolve the isuue. I spent all day ringing everyone (Child Tax, Citizens Advice, ESA, UC) and being given the run-around treatment.

In the end I had no choice but to apply for UC again.

19th April 2022 - Made new claim for UC.

Made attempts to recover my financial loss. No one seemed interested, and are denying any wrong-doing.

My treatment by UC and DWP, or should I say, mis-treatment continued after making the seconnd new claim.

Even to the point of having to attend Job Search Reviews, even though I'm not fit enough for employment?

I have noticed many other issues that need fixing. I'm guessing they are costly, and they would have to admit incompetance, so are swept under the carpet.

The amount I lost is small. About £300. It is not worth bothering with, and becoming ill over. And yet, I can't seem to get over my treatment . I have a mental illness that forces me to over analyse, together with circular reasoning. I've had to go back on anti-depressants / sleeping pills.

My interest in posting this, is to find out what other people think.
Do I have a case? Is it worth me getting a solicitor?

poppy123456

When ringing any DWP department you are not speaking to someone from DWP, you are speaking to someone from a call centre. They are not benefits advisors and they should be the last place you go for such advice. They are not trained to advise anyone.

Your tax credits was correct to close when you claimed UC because this is the rules and yes, you can't go back to them once the UC claim is made. There is also a warning before submitting your claim that any tax credits etc will end if you continue with your claim.

Skyra64 said:

4. (I later learned that the Government has also a top-up scheme in-place which ensures no-one is worse off if they move from ESA to UC.

That's not quite correct in your case. For managed migration a claimant will not be any worse off when they are invited to claim UC because they will have the transitional protection added to their claim. This is not managed migration for you because you chose to claim it, so it's known as natural migration.

If your UC doesn't include the LCWRA element and you were still claiming ESA when you claimed UC again on 19th April then the LCWRA element should be included from the start of your claim. Is the LCWRA element included on your statements?

Your wife maybe expected to look for work depending on circumstances. If you're claiming a disability benefit such as PIP daily living or DLA mid/high rate care then she will be able to claim carers element for looking after you and then she will not have any work commiments.

When you reach state pension age your UC will continue but your state pension will reduce your UC £1 for £1.

Skyra64

I did not ring Universal Credit. They rang me. It was the phone appointment whereupon they check my particulars. I now agree that this person was not a benefit advisor, but at the time I did not know that. The person who rang me was from the Job Center. If they are not trained, they should say "I don't know what you'll get". I would not have closed my claim down. Read my post again, properly. Even her superior should have asked her the full details and prevented her from closing the claim down.

woodbine

People who work for the DWP are not incompetent they are in many cases poorly trained (not their fault), poorly paid and over-worked @Skyra64 given those facts could you do a better job administering an extremely complicated system ?

I await your reply with interest.

poppy123456

They wouldn’t have know your maximum UC entitlement without knowing your full details anyway. UC entitlement is based on your circumstances on the last day of your assessment period. 

In your comment you said you requested for your UC claim to be closed, which they did as you requested. 

As the warning is given before you submit a claim that any tax credits will end if you continue then you should have already been aware of that before ending your UC claim. 

You asked if you had a case? A case for what?
You didn’t answer my question, does your UC include the LCWRA element? If not were you still claiming ESA when you submitted the 2nd UC claim on 19th April?

Skyra64

"I await your reply with interest"

I agree with your comment regarding the 'Indians'. That is why I don't blame the person who tried to advise me. I'm sure she was trying to help. Her job, as far as i know, was just to check my particulars, to make sure It was a genuine claim. She should not have given me any advice she was not sure about. Or perhaps asked someone higher up to confirm what she thought. I blame the 'Chiefs'. I have spoken to a complaints Manager who said "TBH, 'EVEN I' did not know this". I replied "How does that help me? If you don't know, don't pretend to know" He shut up after that. 

Biblioklept

"Are people who work for UC / DWP ... Incompetent?"

It certainly feels that way a lot of the time!! 
I do understand and agree with what Woobine says, that they don't get the training or support needed, but as you say, they shouldn't give advice if they're not sure. They're messing with people's lives. 
I've known people miss out on very large sums of money because of poor advice given by them. 

The fact that they're just telephony staff and not actually DWP doesn't fly or excuse it at all. They shouldn't be giving advice which greatly impacts the lives of people if they don't know. If it's not in their job description, don't do it, and if it is, then they need better training. 

It's also worth noting they do all have access to the guide books and information at their fingertips, unfortunately many think they know better or don't need to access it!

Have you put in an official complaint @skyra64?? 

I don't know if you'll be able to recover the full amount you lost but they have been known to give some small token compensation. If you haven't already also write to your MP. The more that know what's going wrong with UC the better! 

Sorry you and your wife have been through so much stress with it

Skyra64

"They wouldn’t have know your maximum UC entitlement without knowing your full details anyway"
I told her I was getting Income-related ESA and getting the LCWRA element.

"You asked if you had a case? A case for what?"
I was told I would not get the £354 (LCWRA). I was given wrong information which led me to close my claim. If my claim had remained open I would have recieved UC child-element for those 17 days..

"does your UC include the LCWRA element? If not were you still claiming ESA when you submitted the 2nd UC claim on 19th April?"
Yes, my ESA never stopped until 2 weeks after my second claim on the 19th (Run-over). I got LCWRA from the 19th onwards. From my second claim, I had to attend three 'work search job center appointments and one phone appointment (only when i told them i will not attend any work-related appointments until I have it in writing). When I asked them if it was neccessary, they had no answer. I'm guessing they need to make people attend (people who don't need to) in order to get their books in order.

woodbine

Skyra64 said:

"I await your reply with interest"

I agree with your comment regarding the 'Indians'. That is why I don't blame the person who tried to advise me. I'm sure she was trying to help. Her job, as far as i know, was just to check my particulars, to make sure It was a genuine claim. She should not have given me any advice she was not sure about. Or perhaps asked someone higher up to confirm what she thought. I blame the 'Chiefs'. I have spoken to a complaints Manager who said "TBH, 'EVEN I' did not know this". I replied "How does that help me? If you don't know, don't pretend to know" He shut up after that. 

I never mentioned "Indians" and regret the fact that you think I did.

poppy123456

When you first claim UC, even when having claimed ESA in the Support Group, it's standard procedure to have to attend at least 1 appointment. It's not unusal for the LCWRA to take a few weeks to added to your claim, which will then change your work commiments.

You can put in a complaint about the advice you had as advised above and they offer a small amount of compensation but as i advised, because of the warning you have for tax credits when submitting the claim they may not offer anything. No harm in trying. https://makeacomplaint.dwp.gov.uk/

Skyra64

@ Biblioklept

Thanks for your post.

"Have you put in an official complaint?"

Yes, I did. What happened was both distressing and comical.
I will post about it as soon as I can.
I have very poor vision. I use a magnification software to write online, but I get dizzy after 10 minutes.
So I won't post any more today.

Biblioklept

Hope you're feeling a bit better today @Skyra64  

J2R2J

When it comes to putting supposed mistakes made by the DWP (likely to be intentional) I have come across the most corrupt deceiving liars I can think of as they try to wrangle their way out of the wrongdoing by trying to use bureaucracy either to hide behind or confuse the situation.

Bureaucratically or legally they might be seen as innocent but morally they are perverted liars and fraudsters trying to con many vulnerable people out if their entitlements. Mistakes are one-offs, but persistent “mistakes” is nothing more than corruption in disguise.

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Skyra64

poppy123456 said:

When you first claim UC, even when having claimed ESA in the Support Group, it's standard procedure to have to attend at least 1 appointment. It's not unusal for the LCWRA to take a few weeks to added to your claim, which will then change your work commiments.

You can put in a complaint about the advice you had as advised above and they offer a small amount of compensation but as i advised, because of the warning you have for tax credits when submitting the claim they may not offer anything. No harm in trying. https://makeacomplaint.dwp.gov.uk/

I attended twice in person at the jobcenter and was asked to attend a third. I refused.
I told them that I shouldn't have to attend and that the 'accept commitments' was acepted by jobcenter staff on my behalf without my permission. They then made up some BS excuse and made a phone appointment for me instead.
When I recieved the phone call, the female who rang me said "Sorry for ringing you, but I don't understand why was this appointment made?" I replied with "That's what I want to know". She apologized and rang off.

[Quote]the warning you have for tax credits[/Quote]
The warning did not say: "When you apply for UC make sure to ignore anything the UC staff say to you. They may say things which are untrue"
I want compensation for my financial loss.
Why does this loss have to be labelled as 'child tax credits'.
Why cannot it be labelled as 'Child element of UC' ?
After all, If I had not been given wrong information, I would not have closed my initial UC claim and would have recieved payment for my children.

BTW, How do you quote partial snippets? What is the code?

Skyra64

woodbine said:

I never mentioned "Indians" and regret the fact that you think I did.

It did not cross my mind at all. Maybe because I'm Indian?

Skyra64

Biblioklept said:

Hope you're feeling a bit better today @Skyra64  

I'm fine now. Thank you very much for asking.  Helps a lot when a person is feeling down.

J2R2J

Incompetent and corrupt.

Bureaucracy is used within government departments, especially the DWP to manipulate and guilt trip claimants into believing they aren’t entitled to anything this resulting in some of the most vulnerable being denied everything.

The DWP conned me out of seventeen years of benefit I was entitled to for uncontrolled epilepsy and then another thirteen years for mental health problems after the epilepsy. This has resulted in being conned out of about £100,000 and I have been advised by a retired solicitor as well as other professionals that I am still entitled to what I didn’t receive as an ex-gratia payment, but the DWP keeps using bureaucracy and corruption to deny me this by using guilt tripping tactics to try to con me yet further.

I have no intention of giving in and will expose the full extent of corruption and fraud as well as the lies they told me when I publish a book on all this.

Cartini

J2R2J said:

Incompetent and corrupt.

Bureaucracy is used within government departments, especially the DWP to manipulate and guilt trip claimants into believing they aren’t entitled to anything this resulting in some of the most vulnerable being denied everything.

The DWP conned me out of seventeen years of benefit I was entitled to for uncontrolled epilepsy and then another thirteen years for mental health problems after the epilepsy. This has resulted in being conned out of about £100,000 and I have been advised by a retired solicitor as well as other professionals that I am still entitled to what I didn’t receive as an ex-gratia payment, but the DWP keeps using bureaucracy and corruption to deny me this by using guilt tripping tactics to try to con me yet further.

I have no intention of giving in and will expose the full extent of corruption and fraud as well as the lies they told me when I publish a book on all this.

And I`ll look forward to your trial when they take you to court for libel.

Skyra64

Please keep this thread nice ... for now   . I don't want it locked.
I still have part 2 & 3 to post ... coming very soon.

Part 2 - What happened with my complaint to DWP
Part 3 - What happened with my complaint to ICE (DWP)
  

Cartini

Skyra64 said:

Please keep this thread nice ... for now   . I don't want it locked.
I still have part 2 & 3 to post ... coming very soon.

Part 2 - What happened with my complaint to DWP
Part 3 - What happened with my complaint to ICE (DWP)