DWP over riding doctors

bench
bench Community Member Posts: 147 Empowering
edited March 2025 in Universal Credit (UC)

So am I right that health professionals, Ie nurses at best can override Doctor's,when it comes to a WCA assessment ?

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  • Kimi87
    Kimi87 Community Member Posts: 9,053 Championing
    edited March 2025

    Yes, a health assessor can overrule a GP Fit Note when it comes to benefit eligibility.

  • bench
    bench Community Member Posts: 147 Empowering

    Wow I shocked, it's almost like it 1939 again , people that can work to that side, people that can't go take a shower, how is it legal that these health professionals that are not doctors, can override Doctor's who spend years to qualify ??

  • Kimi87
    Kimi87 Community Member Posts: 9,053 Championing

    All health assessors receive the same training, and are considered equal to colleagues - outside ranks don't matter.

  • bench
    bench Community Member Posts: 147 Empowering

    But there healthcare professionals not doctors, that's my point , not one of them assessors, have the qualifications of a general practitioner, that spent years earn there right to be call a doctor, so why does their opinion override that of a doctor and a professional ? I don't get it

  • bench
    bench Community Member Posts: 147 Empowering

    And how that is legal ?

  • bench
    bench Community Member Posts: 147 Empowering

    And to prove my point not one of the assessors will introduce herself as a doctor, its shocking that people lifes ,are in the hands of people that don't even have a degree in medicine

  • bench
    bench Community Member Posts: 147 Empowering
  • Kimi87
    Kimi87 Community Member Posts: 9,053 Championing
    edited March 2025

    No I am not! I claim benefits because I am unwell just like yourself.

    I'm explaining the system.

    The DWP contract the health assessment agencies to medically assess benefit claims.

    The health assessment agencies employ people with a medical background and give them all the same training to carry out the assessments under the DWP specification.

    The health assessment agency then send an assessment report to DWP with a recommendation.

    The DWP Decision Maker then makes the decision on the claim. They usually follow the assessment recommendation, but not always.

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 6,285 Championing
    edited March 2025


    bench
     Online Community Member Posts: 127 EmpoweringMarch 22

    And how that is legal ?

    Hi bench, the rules allowing only GP's to issue a Statement of Fitness for Work - a Med3 form or 'fit note' - were revised by the 2016 welfare reforms so that health professionals such as pharmacists can now provide them.

    Yes, DWP's contractors conduct health assessments without medical training. Those assessors then advise the DWP but do not themselves make any decisions on your claim.

  • LadyTinks
    LadyTinks Community Member Posts: 38 Contributor

    What a great insight and explanation. I knew a lot of it but the remainder has really helped. And OMW on a government agency NOT adhering to the Equality Act 2010 on reasonable adjustments….that explains everything…..and yet the government expects the private sector employers to adhere to them…..the absolute irony!!!!!

  • noonebelieves
    noonebelieves Community Member Posts: 677 Championing

    Hi @Santosha12,
    Having reviewed my own PIP report and many others shared online, one significant issue I’ve noticed is the lack of mandated in-depth reasoning within assessments. For example, a health assessor might state, “I observed the claimant unzipping their bag and lifting it off the table; therefore, they meet descriptors 2, 3, and 4.” In clinical practice, however, detailed clinical reasoning and inference are required for decision-making. In the PIP process, this level of justification isn’t mandated.
    If assessors were required to provide thorough reasoning for their findings, it would likely increase accountability and improve decision-making. The entire health assessment process and the role of assessors have long been debated, even within professional groups and regulatory bodies.
    Unless transparency improves through comprehensive documentation and structured communication with claimants’ medical teams, especially when assessors lack expertise in specific conditions. the process will continue to disadvantage claimants.

    (Again, these are just my personal viewpoints based on my own experiences as a disabled claimant and as a registered health professional observing wider discussions.)

  • noonebelieves
    noonebelieves Community Member Posts: 677 Championing

    Thanks @LadyTinks . The medical assessment processes for disabled claimants within the DWP welfare system are not well designed and certainly have room for improvement and greater inclusivity. Unfortunately, the proposals in the Green Paper seem to move in the opposite direction.(that’s an entirely separate discussion altogether to be followed in our main Green paper discussion thread)

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 6,285 Championing

    The medical assessment processes for disabled claimants…

    Health assessments - not medical anything!

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 6,285 Championing
    edited March 2025

    The DWP contract the health assessment agencies to medically assess benefit claims.

    No, they conduct a health assessment ( a computer-led interview )

    The health assessment agencies employ people with a medical background and give them all the same training to carry out the assessments under the DWP specification.

    No, their background in the main is healthcare not the medical profession.

    The term healthcare professional also includes any professional who is included within a 'Section 60' order of the Health Act 1999. A medical practitioner is a doctor fully registered with the General Medical Council, who permits them to provide or supervise the provision of the regulated activity.

    CQC

  • noonebelieves
    noonebelieves Community Member Posts: 677 Championing
    edited March 2025

    Apologies for the mix up terminologies @WhatThe . I was trying to imply that the “assessment processes (in relation to benefits)for disabled claimants within the DWP welfare system are not well designed ……” and as I said these are my views from personal experiences.

  • noonebelieves
    noonebelieves Community Member Posts: 677 Championing

    I did not know until now that the interview was computer led ….. 😳

  • noonebelieves
    noonebelieves Community Member Posts: 677 Championing

    Dear @santosha12,
    Thank you for your thoughtful words. I completely relate to the struggle of processing all this- my brain isn’t quite what it used to be either, and I can empathise deeply.
    You raise an important point about the fundamental disconnect between the DWP’s assessment process and the clinical judgment of treating professionals. This is precisely why I believe there should be a structured, professional exchange between health assessors and a claimant’s GP or specialist, ensuring decisions are based on a complete and accurate picture of functionality. The current system, where the DWP simply sends a form to the GP, is wholly inadequate. These forms do not allow for meaningful input along the descriptors that actually determine entitlement, whether PIp or WCA. Even when clinicians do provide relevant input, the rigid bureaucratic framework and DWP-dictated assessment protocols often override it .
    If you look at the WCA Handbook for Health assessors and the PIP assessment guides (Parts 12, and 3 on HCP performance), it’s clear that the DWP has significant control over how assessments are conducted. The role of the so-called “Disability Analyst” (as described around page 16 of the WCA handbook) is dictated more by DWP policy than Evidence-based clinical judgment. The PIP assessor recruitment process alone is a five-stage system (detailed on page 132 of the PIP guide), highlighting how assessors are trained and conditioned to prioritise DWP policy over evidence-based practice. As a healthcare professional, I find it deeply concerning that our professional autonomy is compromised in such a way. I’ve had former colleagues attempt this role, only to leave because it clashed with their ethical and moral  standards. I’ve personally steered clear of it for the same reason and the lack of inclusivity when I discussed the role with Capita.
    Moving on, With the green paper consultation now live, we are seeing plans to abolish the WCA from 2028, while simultaneously reviewing the PIP assessment process. Scope is running a live discussion/debate on this, and while I don’t have high hopes for genuine reform, at least we have a platform to share our experiences and push for change. I’ve engaged with Question 3 of the consultation, highlighting the real-life challenges claimants face, and I’d encourage others to do the same. It may be a small window of opportunity, but it’s a chance to make our voices heard.
    I truly respect your views, and I’m deeply sorry to hear about your NMC revalidation. It’s an incredibly difficult reality to face after years of dedication to your profession. But please know that your knowledge, experience, and impact are not erased just because your registration lapses. As someone in a similar position-an AHP with 25 years in the field, 20 of them in the NHS, I too am on the edge of uncertainty regarding my HCPC renewal in April 2026. For now, I take each day as it comes. If my disabilities miraculously disappeared, I’d return to my profession in a heartbeat. But instead, I find myself fighting a non-inclusive and discriminatory system that reduces us to mere case numbers rather than recognising our lifelong contributions.
    Despite all this, we remain strong. We may be hidden behind the Scope and Disability rights curtain, but our voices matter. We’ll keep pushing for change-not just for ourselves, but for all disabled claimants who face these systemic injustices.

    Have a nice day


    Best wishes,

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 6,285 Championing
    edited March 2025

    noonebelieves, I only mentioned it because other members mix them up..

    My experience of the DWP managing my claims is of them ignoring the recommendations of the health assessors, repeatedly. Overriding the Med3 certification. Ignoring my supporting medical evidence.

    DWP once claimed to have requested Further Medical Evidence (FME) from my GP but not received it yet it's there in my file!

    Any funny business is down to DWP decision-makers and not the assessors!

    😞

  • Doglover2
    Doglover2 Community Member Posts: 475 Pioneering

    Back in my days of doing wca for esa I got a doctor each time. Six times in all before I started to get paper based. They passed me unfit for work each time,no hesitation. Dla was the same. Indefinite after at least five f2f with doctors.

    Roll on pip... dismissed and treated like a non entity. Three times so far... all three times junior nurses. Two tribunals and an mr to win my pip back. Says it all