PIP Claimants without 4 Points - Daily Living

Article in the Daily Record. This is what people wanted to see - the numbers that may be affected with the 4 point rule. If this is not a suitable thread, please remove.

DWP analysis of current daily living awards

Many claimants have multiple health conditions but only the primary condition is available for analysis.

The list below shows PIP health conditions, the number of claimants in receipt of PIP daily living component and the number of claimants awarded less than four points in all daily living activities at the end of January 2025.

Back Pain - 194,000 claimants, 154,000 (79%) scored less than 4 points

Arthritis - 279,000 claimants, 13,000 (6%) scored less than 4 points

Other Regional Musculoskeletal Diseases - 136,000 claimants, 97,000 (71%) scored less than 4 points

Chronic Pain Syndromes - 173,00 claimants, 97,000 (71%) scored less than 4 points

Cardiovascular Diseases - 61,000 claimants, 38,000 (62%) scored less than 4 points

Respiratory Diseases - 83,000 claimants, 45,000 (55%) scored less than 4 points

Multiple Sclerosis and Neuropathic Diseases - 80,000 claimants, 38,000 (48%) scored less than 4 points

All Other Conditions - 272,000 claimants, 126,000 (46%) scored less than 4 points

Other Neurological Diseases - 97,000 claimants, 35,000 (36%) scored less than 4 points

Cerebrovascular Diseases - 56,000 claimants, 19,000 (34%) scored less than 4 points

Cancer - 70,000 claimants, 23,000 (33%) scored less than 4 points

Epilepsy - 36,000 claimants, 11,000 (30%) scored less than 4 points

Other Psychiatric Disorders - 90,000 claimants, 25,000 (28%) scored less than 4 points

Cerebral Palsy and Neurological Muscular Diseases - 47,000 claimants, 11,000 (24%) scored less than 4 points

Psychotic Disorders - 112,000 claimants, 26,000 (23%) scored less than 4 points

ADHD / ADD - 75,000 claimants, 14,000 (19%) scored less than 4 points

Autistic Spectrum Disorders - 206,000 claimants, 13,000 (6%) scored less than 4 points

Learning Disabilities - 188,000 claimants, 7,000 (3%) scored less than 4 points

Other disabling condition groups which cover smaller proportions of the PIP caseload are covered in the ‘Other Conditions’ category.

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Comments

PracticeWotUPreach

@Trevor_PIP

Thanks for sharing this. The numbers really highlight how many people could be at risk if a blanket “4-point rule” is applied to daily living activities in PIP. It’s especially concerning for conditions like back pain, chronic pain, and musculoskeletal issues, where a large majority are scoring below 4 points — despite real functional limitations.

It’s important to remember that people often have multiple conditions, and daily living difficulties don’t always show up clearly in one descriptor. Reducing support based solely on points — without considering context or combined impacts — risks leaving many without the help they genuinely need.

This type of analysis shows why claimants and advocates need to keep raising awareness and challenging proposals that don’t reflect the reality of living with these conditions.

Trevor_PIP

I have just added the figures up and not exactly right. There are 3.7m on PIP to latest figures. The total figures in this article are as follows:-

Total on PIP = 2.25m

Less than 4 points = 800k

Therefore with a calculation for 3.7m (average):-

Total on PIP = 3.7m

Less than 4 points = 1.3m

Trevor_PIP

@PracticeWotUPreach Thank you. This is what a lot of people wanted to see and the government seemed to avoid publishing it. The article above was in depth and accurate, I just took what I needed. The figures in the article are not exactly correct for some reason, or there isn't 3.7m claiming PIP.

I agree with what you have said it is concerning for conditions like back pain etc. and could leave disabled people as you say without support that they need. If you have a bad back, there is not much you can do!

The figures are interesting as the numbers with less than 4 points drastically reduces for mental health issues. Not saying anything about that but compared to other disabilities it was an eye opener.

Girl_No1

I know I keep banging on about this, but I genuinely believe those who have four-point scores (including me) are being deliberately lulled into a false sense of security, along with MPs etc.

There is zero mention, and definitely zero guarantee, that the descriptors (far less the scoring within those descriptors) will remain the same in the hybrid (ESA/PIP) version of the assessment.

I genuinely think that's the point - MPs may well be hoodwinked into believing the majority of claimants will continue 'as is' but without questioning the foundations of the entitlement.

Sneaky, cheating, duplicitous behaviour is the modus operandi of politicians. It's their fundamental DNA.

Trevor_PIP

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1027684#Comment_1027684

I calculated this out but should have thought about it a little more... The article states "number of claimants in receipt of PIP daily living component" so therefore the figures could well be accurate in the article, as not all PIP Claimants receive the Daily Living element of PIP.... May be better to forget my calculation for 3.7m, it was only an average anyway!

Trevor_PIP

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1027716#Comment_1027716

Excellent post and very good points!

Trevor_PIP

PIP Totals by Disability - about 3.7m in total. I could not find a definitive list, this is the best:-

These are the main disabling conditions recorded by the DWP at the end of January, 2025.

Psychiatric disorder = 1,421,753 claimants (37%)

This includes mixed anxiety, stress, depressive and mood disorders, OCD and cognitive disorders

Musculoskeletal disease = 697,476 claimants (20%)

This includes muscle or joint pain and arthritic conditions

Neurological disease = 472,121 claimants (13%)

This includes muscular dystrophy, epilepsy, headache, multiple sclerosis, neuropathy and other movement disorders

Musculoskeletal disease = 440,684 claimants (12%)

This includes neck, back, shoulders, elbow, wrists, hands, hip, knee and ankle pain

Respiratory disease = 137,957 claimants (4%)

This includes asthma, diseases of the upper respiratory tract, pulmonary fibrosis and cystic fibrosis

Others = 530,000 claimants (14%)

This includes other disabilities not included above

Amaya_Ringo

What these figures also don't include are the number of valid claimants rejected at the first hurdle, who could not face going through the appeal for whatever reason.

When I was going through my original PIP (from DLA) claim, my autism support worker had several other students she supported who were in this situation. :/

PIP is not doing the job it is meant to do even as it currently is :/

Trevor_PIP

I have been having a read tonight and on a disability website they were discussing the 4 point Daily Living issue. What they pointed out was the numbers of claimants that did not have 4 points. The least were mental health and the most were physical conditions. See my original post above. Looking at the ages of these claimants without 4 points it was clear the least without 4 points were young people and most were people that had worked all their lives but could not work now due to disability. So how is all this about getting people back to work..... Where the young can stay on benefits... This had been worked out with information from the DWP. I saw all the data.

Trevor_PIP

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1027808#Comment_1027808

I just added the figures as information for forum members and visitors.

I agree with what you have said. The figures above are a snapshot in time of current claimants, they don't include what you have stated or the claimants refused.

Trevor_PIP

Other information provided on the 4 point Daily Living issue (new thread) by another forum member highlights too the fact that getting people back to work is just a smoke screen and it is not going to increase the working population like they think it will....

Nashota

I'm a tad concerned about the 4 point thing because I know full well from experience that just because someone may have scored 4 or more in one descriptor in one assessment it doesn't mean they will in the next. I've experienced it myself, had 8 points for engaging, dropped to 0 and after appeal where the DWP overturned the decision without a tribunal I only received 2.

I personally believe the problem is with the HCPs, the government do need to overhaul the system but not in the way that they are proposing, it's very dangerous and it's going to cost more money in the long run. Not only that there are roughly 1.3 disabled people working and 500k carers, a lot of those will end up on unemployment which is what I thought Labour were moaning about, not only that, since we've had the Labour party and Reeves, our unemployment levels have gone up.

They've not thought any of it through properly, they've come up with a list of ideas without even consulting with people properly and are fixated on trying to get those who can't work back into work. No amount of money that the government takes from me is going to cure me and get me back into work, simple as.

I'm also in the LCWRA group.. making PIP a portal for 2 different payments is a massive mistake as well.

Trevor_PIP

@Nashota good points! Yes, if you have 4 points now you may not have them after your next review, I have thought about this since the proposed changes were published. In theory nobody is safe. This is why Reeves wants these proposed changes voted on and she is definitely not to be trusted...

They haven't thought them through, but they must know it could be devastating for disabled people. I don't think it has anything to do with work when you look at the may be most affected by the changes!

Roughyed1485

just makes for very grim reading to say the least 😔 can imagine a lot of people may only one way out if they lose there PIP 🪦 I myself am so nervous about my PIP being reviewed in 2027 already and it fills me with dread, I’m glad I’ve got a pre paid non attendance cremation organised, just need to get a living will and lasting power of attorney for both health and finance sorted out. Although not having any family or friends just makes it harder to sort out, not having someone to act on my behalf or carry out my best wishes. I dread to think how much it would cost to have a solicitor in a retainer…..

Nashota

I just had my paper-based PIP review and received the letter yesterday, I was awarded the same for 6 years, they even gave me 4 points in one descriptor, but didn't acknowledge other things that I'd told them to do with swallowing, reading and such, but I'll just keep reiterating them when I have reviews. At least I'll be left alone for 5 years.

Sorry to hear that @Roughyed1485

Roughyed1485

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1028634#Comment_1028634

That’s a good strategy to have, just keep sticking to your guns going forward.

I’m just going to keep trying to keep my head above water, even though it’s a huge struggle. I’m just dreading it in 2027 to have to take the forms to citizens advice to help me fill them out, last time it was a place in chesterfield where they asked me the questions and filled the forms out for me. When I’m under pressure with questions I struggle to get my words out, or articulate how I’m feeling. Just being in a new city, with people that don’t know me, not knowing properly about my past. Someone put on my mental health records that my Depression and BPD were in remission, treating them like I’m in remission from cancer! Told the complaints team after finding it out, that it’s such a crass term to use and that none of my mental health conditions will be in remission until I’m dead.

Trevor_PIP

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1028491#Comment_1028491

Try and stay calm. You have two years to go. In addition, after reading your latest post, mental health is the least affected by the proposed changes if they go through! So try and relax.

Trevor_PIP

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1028634#Comment_1028634

Well done!

Trevor_PIP

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1028672#Comment_1028672

Try not to think about 2027 currently. Their is help with your form filling so relax a bit. Good you picked up on the "remission" comment and complained. Make sure it is removed from your mental health records too.

Nashota

Thanks @Trevor_PIP :)

Oh yeah someone will definitely help and advise with form filling, Scope and another forum are where I received advice with regards to PIP, ESA and then migrating from ESA SG to UC LCWRA.

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