Scope's reply to the governments planned concessions to the green paper.
Comments
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Hi @secretsquirrel1 - I can only presume the longer form (PIP2) dated Jan 2021 is the 'How your disability affects you' claim form, tho when I checked this is only 50pp long:
As far as review forms go, the AR1 forms, then a new one came out in Nov 2024. You can tell if you've received this one as it will have 11/24 at the bottom of each page as can be seen here:
What has happened tho to a few of our members is that they've received the PIP2 form when up for review, so I think this may be what you've heard.
There's also an AR2 form, the so-called 'light touch' PIP review form which is only 6pp long:
[Sorry, I can't find an example of the earlier AR1 form, but this was shorter than the 'new' one, which has 25pp. That one somewhat encouraged claimants to often put 'no change' to how they were affected without adding any detail whatsoever, which was why some had their claim reduced, or received no award at all]
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Thanks , ok.... so nothing on what form of the pip criteria ( present or new 4 point rule )for people in my position will need to take has been decided yet then
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ATTENTION
Apparently, no figures or evidence provided, there are extremely large communities of disabled people in this country playing a disability game.
It seems we are talking of hundreds of thousands of people. My guess as per comment above.
If you see anyone playing this game, which should not be very difficult as the number is exceptionally large, please report.
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I'm afraid it's hard to say. It depends on if/when all of these changes happen. There are so many variables associated with this particular proposed change. I'd really hope you'd be treated as a current claimant and protected the same way current PIP claimants are following the revisions.
Sorry I really want to be able to put your mind at ease. I'm just very aware that part or maybe even all of what's currently been proposed could change, as we've seen happen this week.
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Once pushed through can take all back as it's obvious we cannot trust them I emailed the speaker Mr hoyle saying its lies where's the democracy and much more then messaged twice again saying they want to cull the disabled stated he must have seen media proof it's all scam I hate to say this bit I don't think we can relax on this at all I feel no comfort at all I keep saying why did meg hillier do this she's educated lady she knows all the facts to say it OK for existing claimants and not for new claimants goes against what she did admenment for I personally think it was to stamp her authority and show starmer he must listen to her in general not about us or it would be about everyone so people need to question her reasoning why this is acceptable I did email her to asking that
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Yeah best to wait and see what is passed then see
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The user and all related content has been deleted.0
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Timms admitted the people claiming are entitled and many who are entitled don't claim, but basically that the gov doesn't want them to claim because it's too expensive.
As most of us know, this was always about money and never about helping anyone. It's no surprise they're trying to make it a money bill.
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Also, Stef Benstead posted this a couple of days ago.
And I'm still confused whether or not this means you keep LCWRA only if you're not on PIP, or if it counts both ways. My brain is extra foggy today.
Anybody understand?
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We do not wait, do not hesitate, folks, plwease. This is our moment of truth/ kairos from Greek philosophy. We need to persistent with love, rigorous, not hateful challenges towards the govt.
Anger will not persuade. So, if you are feeling hopeless, anxious, depressed about this bill, I have millions - 16.1 million disabled people have - or probably most of them.
So transform the negative, but understandable emotions, and any rwesistance to action to Action/ campaigning.
Please Google ''find your MP'' if you do not know who your MP is.
Please write, and write and write again, to your MP and the media. Please do not take no for an answer.
Everyone counts and their letters. I believe we can still win this.
I will Google the parliamentary voting arithmetic, on this UC and Disability benefits bill, and get back to you good folk.
Love to all and solidarity
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Lol. Disabled people online helping other disabled people claim what they're entitled to are not the reason PIP rates are rising, nor justifies vouchers. and if PIP did become vouchers, these disabled people online would still exist.
If the UK benefits system was humane and easy to navigate, there would be no need for online support networks.
Prosecuting them wouldn't solve anything. There's no room for them in prisons anyway.
Don't attack other disabled people. They are not to blame. Attack the rich billionaires and right wing poiticians who enable the like Starmer and Kendall.
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MoreExplainerExplainer
What are the concessions to the welfare bill - and will MPs back it?The changes will be put to a crunch vote on Tuesday - but some rebels still want the bill to be killled.
Political reporter @fayebrownSky
Friday 27 June 2025 10:35, UK
8:25
Play Video - 'Step in the right direction'Welfare changes 'step in the right direction'
Number 10 has made concessions on its welfare bill after crisis talks with Labour rebels.
Sir Keir Starmer will be hoping the changes are enough to avoid a Commons defeat when the measures are put to a vote on Tuesday - but several MPs have said they are still not satisfied.
Sky News looks at what was in the deal and whether it will be enough to win over critics.
Politics Live: Labour rebel hails 'good deal' after No 10 makes concessions on welfare
Changes to PIP
In a letter to MPs, Work and Pensions Secretary Liz Kendall confirmed all existing claimants of the personal independence payment (pip) will be exempt from the cuts to eligibility.
It means the new qualifying requirements will be implemented from November 2026 for new claims only.
This is a big U-turn as the changes to pip, the main disability benefit in England, had caused the most upset among MPs planning to rebel.
Pip is money given to people, including some of whom are in work, who have extra care or mobility needs as a result of a disability.
People who claim it are awarded points depending on their ability to do certain activities, such as washing and preparing food, which influences how much they will receive.
Currently claimants need to score a minimum of eight points across a range of tasks to qualify for the daily living element (there is a mobility element that is not affected by the plans). Under the new rules people will need to score a minimum of four points in at least one activity to qualify.
By limiting the changes to new claimants only, it is estimated 370,000 people who had been due to lose out will now get to keep their benefit.
This will come at a cost of £1.5bn by the end of the parliament, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
It is not clear how that will be funded, prompting speculation of tax rises at the autumn budget.
Universal Credit
The second row back involves planned changes to universal credit (UC).
The government had intended to freeze the health top-up at £97 a week during this parliament.
However, all current recipients of the health element, as well as any new applicants meeting the "severe conditions criteria", will now have their incomes protected in real terms.
The government will still cut the rate to £50 for new claimants from 2026/7, while raising the standard rate of UC for jobseekers.
https://flo.uri.sh/visualisation/23951792/embed?auto=1More money for people to find work
The health top-up is for people who have a limited ability to work because of a disability or long term sickness, but ministers are concerned about the rising number of claimants and want to incentivise people back into work.
Ms Kendall previously said £1bn would be used for targeted support schemes to help people out of inactivity and into jobs.
In her letter, she said the government "will front load more of the additional funding generated by these reforms for back to work support for sick and disabled people".
0:43
Play Video - Govt makes offer to rebels on welfare reformsGovt makes offer to rebels on welfare reforms
Will MPs back the changes?
Care minister Stephen Kinnock told Sky News on Friday morning the changes are a "really big step in the right direction".
The purpose of the bill was to shave £5bn off the welfare budget by 2030 and tackle the rising numbers of people who are economically inactive. Lots of MPs said they agreed with the principle of reform but were concerned with the impact on disabled people.
Initially, over 120 Labour MPs had signed a "reasoned amendment" calling for the changes to be delayed while disabled people were consulted on.
Dame Meg Hillier, the influential chair of the Treasury select committee who had tabled the amendment, said last night that the government had offered a "good deal".
However, it is ultimately up to individual MPs to decide if they want to support it.
Read more:
Beth Rigby analysis: Welfare bill a humiliating blow for Starmer0 -
To try to allay your fears use the experts:
www,cab.org.uk
for welfare advice re the UC and PIP Bill.
Thanks.
and please Google ''Disability Rights, UK''
and
''Disability Alliance''
As hey will be in a good popstion to advice people what they will retain or lose in their diasabiity bemnfits.
BUT BUT BUT.
Its not over yet, if we keep campaigning as if our life depends on it - and it may do for I felt suicidal and attempted, will not attempt again - and many have. We need to put suicide figure in the govts face asking where is Labour true heart of compassion, and equality.
Empathic solidarity, and joy
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I'm not attacking other disabled people and am puzzled by the comment, Im trying to support and inspire people.
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I think we are probably fighting for future disabled people's rights more than our own right now, but that in itself is worth the fighting for. Their lives should be easier than ours, not harder, because we should be moving forward. But this is a messy and broken bill and I think it is probably still not safe even if it passes on Tuesday.
Side-note, when my case came up for review in 2021, I was sent all the full forms again and when my advocate queried this, she was told that when someone wins a tribunal, their review becomes a 'brand new claim' again, so starting over from scratch with all new evidence. Not sure how many people have experienced this or whether it is universal, but this seems like a loophole to me. If the DWP decides you're a new claimant because you won the last round before a judge…
I still think they would do better to chuck this out completely and begin again, but since that seems unlikely, they should at least check the loopholes.I also think it would go a long way towards goodwill with disabled people if Starmer made some strategic shuffles and replaced his DWP minister with someone more sympathetic to our situation. Kendall is far too tied up in the bill and the misinformation, she's part of the problem.
I actually want Labour to come through this and survive because the idea of a Reform government makes me feel sick…but that means changing the narrative in lots of ways and right now I don't see that.
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I could not agree more well said Amaya Ringo
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Thank you stellar
People ask for help online not to cheat the system but to try and avoid the system cheating them . They still need a diagnosis and Drs letters . This whole thing if some are more deserving of others is upsetting as no one knows how unwell a person in behind closed doors .
As for vouchers why should we be treated as second class citizens. If a person is fit and healthy enough to work full time they’re not told how they should spend their money.2 -
If someone is fit and healthy but unemployed they are also not given vouchers and told how to spend their money, so only making this a disability thing would be in breach of the equalities act.
I find it hard to believe anyone who has genuinely been through the PIP system really believes disabled people are 'helping each other cheat'. The system is not that naive.
We have more important things to do than cater to other people's misinformation :)4 -
True. But I have to ask are you a qualified benefits advisor.
We need to have facts, knowledge of welfare advice, and the law that is true.
No disrespect at all.
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