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  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    I'm just also asking because my friend stated that he believes that someone had been watching us prior to the assessment at 9am Wednesday 14th February. We met for a quick coffee at Sainsbury's before the short trip 500 yards to the centre. He said a man had sat down nearby, pretended to read a paper but was watching us?
    He then said that as we were preparing to go he got up and left, he was alone? When we left Sainsbury's entrance my friend said he was standing near the entrance watching us. I told him he was being paranoid? My friend is a retired Detective Sgt and insisted this man was watching us. He said on the first assessment that the assessor was in the cafe in Sainsbury's when we were before my first assessment??
    Do you think it is possible they would do this?

    Gerry
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Community member Posts: 2,621 Pioneering
    Syzygy,

    Gerry - assessors are not part of the DWP's fraud and error service, so I'd be surprised if watching you in a location completely separate to the assessment was a regular thing that they do as part of their job. Having said that, of course if the assessor happened to be in the Sainsbury's cafe nearby, then they might draw conclusions from their observations of you there, but this is not what their guidance instructs them to do AT ALL. Observations are supposed be about what happens in the assessment centre building, and of course will include questions about how you got there. Whilst the guidance says that informal observations start when you enter the centre, in practice I wouldn't rule out possibly being observed out of a window, walking to the centre, in the car park etc, but in Sainsburys? I doubt it.

    Most assessors are incredibly pushed for time too, and spending their breaks watching people who they think might be about to go to an assessment would seem extreme. Of course, I can't rule anything out, but I think you have enough other things to worry about. 

    Another possibility, which I also can't rule out entirely, is that the person your friend saw is not an assessor but someone else entirely who does work for the DWP Fraud and Error Service. However, it would be unusual for them to carry out surveillance in a situation like yours, where you're not currently getting benefit.

    So as far as I can see you now have to wait and attend the new assessment. It's worth a phone call I think to see if 5th March is happening or not. 

    And also, whatever happens, definitely worth a further complaint (at least two, one to the assessment company and one to the DWP). You have been seriously messed about here.
    By the time you receive the right amount of benefit it will be several months since you claimed. Not acceptable. 

    As I mentioned before, your MP might be interested? The recent Work and Pensions Committee reports means there is (or should be) even more awareness amongst MPs of the appalling quality of assessments.


    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:

  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Thanks Will,
    I never doubted being watched or followed but my friend made the observation and made the comment to me. 

    In the DWP report sent to me it clearly shows that a conversation between the DWP and IAS last year the person at IAS read from a computer record that my assessor had telephoned them straight after my assessment was cancelled and reported to IAS that he stopped and cancelled my claim because I had become 'Abusive, threatening and violent' toward him, something I have categorically denied and also my witness supplied a 2 page statement to the Crown Tribunal Court never happened.

    In the SAR sent by IAS they have recorded this and instructed the assessor to fill out and complete a 'Clerical Incident Form'?

    This form was not included in the SAR or relevant documents asked for under the freedom of information act. I have written to IAS asking for a copy and a reason why it had not been included.

    My assessor has been proven to be a liar. My assessment was terminated by him on a lie, something which did not happen. He is supposed to be a health professional. He is a registered practitioner nurse. I have made a formal complaint to the NMC (Nurse Midwife Council) regarding his actions, and supplied them with all the relevant evidence and documentation.

    I have also got my MP involved. DWP and IAS he tells me will be investigated as he will now contact the relevant Minister and put all the evidence to him.

    I implore anyone who has been treated this way and had lies made against them by a health professional (in my case a registered nurse) to make a formal complaint against them through the relevant authorities? It is time we all started to fight back against these people, the DWP and IAS.

    IAS are withholding this report from my assessor had submitted - they may have even destroyed it, because in all their correspondence there is no mention of 'Abusive, threatening or violence'?

    I received a letter today from IAS of my appointment on 5th March and new assessment. My MP had stated he was going to contact them to confirm the appointment. 

    It is now nearly 10 months since my claim was made for PIP. DWP and IAS have been irresponsible, delaying, cancelling, and making excuse after excuse. My MP seems knowledgeable about PIP, I guess you are right Will.

    Gerry.


  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    It is fully my intention to sue my assessor and the IAS regarding these matters.
    Would anyone know if there are or is a Solicitor in the UK who would be willing to review my case and make legal representation for me?

    I am unable to afford the service of a Solicitor, and because of my ill health pension and Injury gratuity award I receive I am unlikely to be given legal aid?

    Gerry.
  • Broken
    Broken Community member Posts: 43 Courageous
    @Syzygy Well done for standing your ground and fighting back! What a nightmare situation, I do so hope that justice prevails and your final outcome is soon remedied. Perhaps you could ask for the "medical assessment" to be recorded? 
  • keira
    keira Community member Posts: 133 Courageous
    Hi Gerry,

    It's appalling what you have had to go through (and still are). Please try to remain strong and fight for the justice that you deserve. I have posted a link which may be of interest to you. Apologies if you are already aware of the case.

    All the best

    Keira

    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/court-orders-atos-to-pay-disabled-woman-5000-over-dishonest-pip-assessment/


  • keira
    keira Community member Posts: 133 Courageous
  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Good Morning and thank you to Broken, Lillybelle and Keira.
    Thanks for the links, it makes devastating reading. My complaint to NMC seems like it won't hold up much hope which saddens me immensely. If they are unwilling to treat my complaint seriously then as it says, a campaign to shame them will ensue.
    My real fight begins here it seems, we must keep the pressure on the different Governmental departments and MP's to make sure we all get Justice in the end.
    Thank you for all your support, it isn't easy being alone, disabled and being put through this heartless charade by the Government and it's cruel agencies. What concerns me more is that health professionals who we all assume were doing their jobs out of passion and love to treat people who are sick and needy of help. This in most cases isn't the truth, it seems some are just in for the status and money, nothing more, they should be shameful and think hard and deep into their actions and start looking for another vocation in life.
    The fight continues.

    Gerry
  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Where we are at:
    IAS telephoned me the weekend before my 5th March assessment claiming that the centre they use isn't in use? The centre itself isn't owned by IAS but the rent it and then another agency (other than IAS) send their assessors in to do the assessment, so they are not directly contracted by IAS but as IAS claim they are of the same training and standard. I disagree. I also told IAS of my intention to record the assessment. They responded by telling me that they couldn't find an assessor to agree to this, therefore are unable to do this.

    Back to my MP - within a few days IAS came back claiming that the centre was now open again and they had found an assessor who had agreed to being recorded. (Amazing how they change their tune when an MP is involved!!)

    My advice to anyone now or in the future is to tell them you intend to record the interview, after all IAS do tell you and encourage yo to do so! (They just don't like it when you take the offer up, but it is a way forward to stopping these rogue assessors?

    I have a new assessment date Thursday 22nd March 2018 - it will be recorded.
    I have also received a reply from a NMC (Nurses Midwifery Council) investigator asking for more details which has been sent. I have informed him that the evidence against this nurse who lied, falsified documents and entries into official documents didn't have a defence for what he had done. He was also told my MP had been informed and I await the outcome but he was told that any other excuse they may try to use to defend this man was unacceptable and bad press and a complaint to the department that is investigating them will be informed.

    IAS have acknowledged my further request for the record which the assessor was asked to fill in immediately regarding my alleged threatening, abusive and violent conduct (which they did not included in the SAR) I have again warned them that under the Data protection act I have a right to see this report, and they must comply else it will go to the data protection officer as a refusal.

    Gerry.


  • jo1357
    jo1357 Community member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi syzygy

    My advice to you is keep going with this hun. I had an assessment last August 2017. ATOS at it again i see. Sorry but I refuse to use their guise of IAS. Same company same intentional mistakes. I got to the centre and five minutes before i was due to go in i noticed a missed call received 10 mins before my assessment to say it was cancelled. No reason given. I hadnt been out of my home in weeks. My husband had taken the day off ti take me there. 25 miles. I was left having a panic atttack having worried and stressed about it for weeks. Vomited at the side of the van. I contacted atos and they refused to provide me with a home appt and the female call handler was disgustingly rude and disinterested. My husband called back and spoke to a guy who said i would need a doctors note. The day after a woman supv from atos rang me to apologise for the first womans attitude saying she was going to be retrained. They gave me a home appt in mid september. Long and short she lied about doing physical exams on me. Etc etc. And i was subsequently refused being awarded 6 and 4 points respectively. I went to mandatory reconsideration and i got reports from my gp and psychiatrist. It was again refused. 

    I placed a complaint into atos who referred everything to the dwp who i was also complaining about as both decision notices contradicted each other. You see at this stage i didnt know what had been written. 

    Tbh... my stress and anxiety levels were off the scale. And my husband had ti do much of the leg work in dealing with both complaints.

    I contacted a law centre at tge beginning of december and spent 2.5 hrs going over my reasons for wanting to go to appeal.  In a nutshell.... she was not only inept but delayed at every stage. My close off date was the 28th december. I tried contacting her but no response back, so up until the 3rd jan i didnt even know if she had submitted the form. After that it got worse. Constant apologies for her tardiness.  I was now really starting to panic when in mid feb i got my tribunal date. I also at the end of january the day where the dwp respond to my appeal.... the documents they produced to ask that the appeal be withdrawn. I also got every document under the SAR including taped calls to the dwp call centre. I knew i wouldnt be using them in respect of the hearing but knew whatever the outcome and the several emails raising a complaint they said i hadnt. Bless the dwp... they even had 5 calls from my husband requesting a raising of a complaint in the paperwork provided under SAR. Anyway.... i tried contacting my solicitor 10 days before the hearing. Three days later she told me she didnt have time to contact my gp and said she would email a letter for approval. Another 2 days later and lots of chasing up and the letter arrived. In truth... it could have been written for a different client. In truth, I binned her for her blatant incompetence. Lots of anxiety over the next few days and lots of tears I managed ti contact my gp directly and my psychiatrist. And my private counselor. All three came up trumps for me. I received my gp letter expanding on her last the evening before my hearing. The psychiatrists one arrived by email at 1.30pm 1.5 hrs before my hearing. The counselors arrived the saturday before. And all three outwith the required seven days before.

    Thankfully the panel accepted it. A dwp member was there and believe me when i say she was ruthless. I cried and shook throughout. The judge and the doctor were kind and compassionate. But the whole thing traumatised me. I have no contact with anyone but my husband and my gp etc and live a very reclusive life. The dwp member asked if i had a mobile. When i said yes she asked who do i text. So i told her the truth i text my husband. She went oh! What about England..dont you text anyone in england? I am english and have lived in scotland many years and by choice estranged from my family. I thought that was below the belt. 

    Anyways I got through the onslaught 'just' but the relief of having had the courage to do it was a significant weight of my shoulders.  It has taken a lot out of my husband too who works full time. The panel told me that they had a lot of stuff to go through, not least of all my emails ripping both organisations to shreds. Anyone reading this.... please dont do that because it is deemed to show focus and concentration. Thankfully they believed the fact that i do these things as part of my illness at injustice and discrimination. 

    The next morning I rang the tribunals service to ask how long I would have to wait and she read out the result over the phone. The secretary of states decision had been set aside and I was awarded 11 and 10 points respectively.

    The moral behind my experience which has crippled me inside at the inhuman way i was treated throughout... is...NEVER GIVE UP NO MATTER HOW HARD IT MAY BE AND HAVE HOPE AND TRUST IN THE TRIBUNAL SERVICE.. also get the support of the people who are qualified to assess us... our own medical professionals not some general nurse or physio with absolutely no experience in the medical conditions that cant be seen. Shameful treatment and worse still a system that gives not a rats bottom for the needs of disabled people. (Ps... I too am an ex serving officer and could relate to the difficulties youve encountered)
  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Hi Jo and thanks!

    I fully intend to see this through to the end and on the way put right the wrongs that people have done to me and thousands of disabled people like us!

    This isn't a political platform, so I won't go into my thoughts behind all of this. I will emphasise again, if you are going to have an assessment... REQUEST YOU WISH TO RECORD IT!!! They will not like it but it's the way forward. Government, DWP and ATOS do not like this, but it is your fundamental human right to do so, they cannot stop you. It is better to have hard evidence and corroboration with a friend/witness to prove some of these so called health professionals are hitting below the belt.

    When I asked to record mine I could feel the panic in ATOS.. first they refused a home assessment, then made excuses about the centre being shut and then they couldn't find a HP who would agree.. my MP intervened and they soon changed their minds, so it can be done.. please, I implore everyone to fight back against this.

    Regards.

    Gerry (Syzygy)  
  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Hi all,

    Today's developments are - I have asked my MP to write to IAS requiring them under the Data Act and Freedom of Information to send me a copy and the exact contents of the note left on their file by my assessor. First, they denied such a note exists, then it does.. stating it was a very 'vague' note, but still not revealing the exact wording of what it says?

    They state in their email - Mr XXXX placed a brief note on the system indicating issues with Mr Gee's behaviour on the day. The assessor spuriously lied that I was abusive, threatening and violent toward him. 

    It is also apparent that Mr XXXX did not complete an incident report form and therefore we cannot cover up what doesn't exist. We cannot cover up anything. If a document exists Mr Gee has the right to see it. I therefore believe that in conjunction with the above reopening of this complaint that further investigation needs to be done. 

    Why does 'further' investigation need to be done? They now admit that a note was left by the assessor, but after several attempts to see the note.. they have so far made every excuse under the sun not to reveal it? My whole claim and it's refusal is based on this note. It is a claim and a lie the assessor used against me.

    As for the incident report form, IAS claim that the assessor did not submit one? Why? I have asked 'Have you approached the assessor and asked him the reason why he didn't submit one' A very pertinent question which they also refuse to answer.  IAS claim to be professional and will defend their assessors rigorously, but as on so many occasions this is total nonsense, IAS are just protecting their own backs.

    I will go to my assessment on Thursday, and I think I already know the outcome.

    Regards Gerry.
  • Syzygy
    Syzygy Community member Posts: 19 Listener
    Hi all,
    Attended my assessment as requested this morning. I was met by a new assessor who immediately told me that she would not allow the assessment to be recorded? I informed her that IAS were asked and had given the green light for the recording and would find a suitable assessor who would allow the taped interview? They informed me that they had done so.

    The assessor said she did not want to be recorded as she did not want it to be used against her???

    My MP has been informed and is writing to IAS and the Minister concerned.
    IAS wrote back to my MP today after he had requested that IAS send him a screenshot of the Non existant, then Vague, then oh we do have a note but you won't know the details because we're not going to show or tell you!! They said it was already in the SAR they had sent (at a time when they denied its existence I might add???) In the SAR, it shows that the assessor stopped the interview at 14.24hrs? But the report also stated he rang them about the incident at 14.22hrs?

    How the assessor called a full two minutes to IAS reporting the incident 2 minutes before stopping the interview is beyond me? Computers do no lie. As I have claimed all along, IAS have tampered with the reports, their SAR does not corroborate the time, and stating that a 'Note' left by the assessor didn't exist, then it did, refused to send the details of that note, then reported it was on their computer where they had previously stated no details were in the computer.. insisted it was very Vague? and refused again on asking by my MP, then refusing to supply a 'Screenshot' of the note.. something IAS said we don't do?

    I received a telephone call from the Information commissioners office before my assessment. They have taken an interest in this matter now. I have been told that after IAS have conducted their final complaint and if they still refuse to release the details of the  note to call them back and they will pursue the matter further.

    Hey Ho.... an interesting day so far. I did the assessment without recording it, reluctantly I might add as I didn't want IAS to again claim I was being obstructive. It went to the end.. I reserve judgement on it's outcome.

    Gerry

  • leesteuk
    leesteuk Community member Posts: 15 Listener

    Hi Gerry

    Whats happened with your assessment then ? good news or bad ??

    I am interested as I am in a similar situation !


    Regards

    Lee

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