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Wish it was all over

kah22
kah22 Community member Posts: 52 Courageous
Well we got our assessment back standard care 11 points, no mobility. A lot of people get 11 points, I wonder what !!!

Anyway we are going for a MR. It’s a bipolar case and while doing some research I came across this very interesting case law Q1599/2016 originally to do with epilepsy but also applies to other conditions like Mental Health it states:
that ‘the decision maker should look at whether there is a real possibility that harm might occur and also at how great the harm might be. The greater the potential harm, the less likely it needs to be that it would happen on any specific occasion.
At paragraph 56, the tribunal held that:
“An assessment that an activity cannot be carried out safely does not require that the occurrence of harm is “more likely than not”. In assessing whether a person can carry out an activity safely, a tribunal must consider whether there is a real possibility that cannot be ignored of harm occurring, having regard to the nature and gravity of the feared harm in the particular case. It follows that both the likelihood of the harm occurring and the severity of the consequences are relevant. The same approach applies to the assessment of a need for supervision

I found that very interesting and at the moment I’m trying to form an argument saying that rather than needing prompting we need supervision. That extra 2 points would push us over into enhanced and give us an argument for mobility

Has anyone on the Forum went down that road, especially with that bit of case law and how did you argue it. I have a feeling I should be concentrating on the words the likelihood of the harm occurring

But how to argue it?


Kevin

 

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Comments

  • atlas46
    atlas46 Community member Posts: 826 Pioneering
    Hi

    Can I ask which activity are you considering, as some have same scores for either prompting or supervision.

    I should point out, the DWP can review the whole claim.

    atlas46
  • sandyp196
    sandyp196 Community member Posts: 142 Pioneering
    I recieved pip for mental health illness. I recieved in 2015 EDL and SM. but this time they took the mobility off me. The assessor scored me 10 points for overhhelming psychologicall distress. The DM reduced it to 4 points for needing prompting rather than supervision.  I only have until Monday to decide whether to request an MR.  The decision maker didn't tell me why it was reduced. I'm really scared of asking for an MR in case I lose the daily living. But I spend about £60 -£70 a month on taxis and paying people petrol. I really did use the money for its purpose. 
    I'm going to struggle without it. I don't know what to do. 
    I thought the government were putting a stop to discriminating against mental health and the mobility element of pip. Obviously not when the assessor who met me, came to my home, scored me 10 points and then some desk jockey who hasn't met me took the points off. My family really want me to appeal but I'm so scared. I woukd appeal in a heartbeat if not for the fact we are all threatened and controlled by them saying an appeal could be punished with losing the entire award. 
    How can noone in power think there's anything wrong with this?  
    It's all so crazy and confusing.  
    I'm lucky that I got the Daily living, am I pushing my luck to appeal? I don't know and I have to make that decision by Monday the latest. 
    I will be interested to know what you do original poster.  
  • mayfair
    mayfair Community member Posts: 39 Connected
    @kah22 wishing you the best of luck with everything, I really hope all works out for you 
  • atlas46
    atlas46 Community member Posts: 826 Pioneering
    Hi

    Have you got access to Disability Rights hand book for April 2018/19 , in particular page 40.

    Psychological stress.

    On 16.3.17, the government introduced restrictions to Descriptors 1c, 1d and1f, this was thrown out by the High Court on 21/12/17.

    Have you got the assessor report for your 2015 claim, when you got 10 pts and what does the assessor say for 2018 review.

    Has anything changed over three years?

    Hope this helps.

  • kah22
    kah22 Community member Posts: 52 Courageous
    edited April 2018
    atlas46 said:
    Hi

    Can I ask which activity are you considering, as some have same scores for either prompting or supervision.

    I should point out, the DWP can review the whole claim.

    atlas46
    My main arguemement would be Preparing Food, and I’m going for Supervision.

    Briefly it will be: she’s spilled boiling water on a few occasions, she’ll go and sit down during the cooking, has let pans boil dry. We’ve discovered out of date meat, chicken, sausages in fridge, some of it off, so that’s a danger repreparing food, I think. So I’m going for safety, reliability.  

    There is also the point that the HP has acknowledged the Safety aspect when she’s high, so I’m wondering if I can use the case law above in regard to depression and psychosis

    if I can get that case to apply then it will push her over the top and also give us a foot hold into mobility using the same case law.  It might fail now but I’m thinking of the thrall the DWP will be carrying out later on.

    Kevin
    atlas see your messages
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  • kah22
    kah22 Community member Posts: 52 Courageous
    Rather than me explaining it have a look HERE .  You’ll have to do some research afterwards but that should start you.  To be honest I wouldn’t have the experience to explain it to someone else but I would be glad to hear views

    But as I understand it it has all to do with the safety factor. It came about when the Upper Tribunal examined the case of three individuals with epilepsy and in that decisionns the done away with the 50 percent rule SEE HERE

     
  • kah22
    kah22 Community member Posts: 52 Courageous
    Sorry the link in my OP was incorrect it should have been CPIP/3272/2016
  • whistles
    whistles Community member Posts: 1,583 Disability Gamechanger
    I dont follow how bringing in a case law will help your MR. It's about how you are effected. 
    You need to be adding in proof that you need supervision not that you found a case law. 

    It's difficult I think on some questions.
    To my thinking if you really need supervision to use a cooker- safely and reliability, you might say you can't use it. I cannot cook safely or reliably, I would require supervision- but the risk is too high my common sense steps in and I don't touch it. I scored two points.

    Epilepsy is considered fluctuating and that's scored differently hence the case laws you found.

    I also don't understand your connection with mobility. You either qualify for that or you don't. You can receive that without care and care without mobility.

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • Colourfull
    Colourfull Community member Posts: 59 Courageous
    Hope all goes well for you and it goes in your favour.

    Colourfull.
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    @Victoriad For example, agoraphobia, severe anxiety around other people, etc.
  • whistles
    whistles Community member Posts: 1,583 Disability Gamechanger
    How does that mean you cannot plan and follow a journey to begin with t?
    I get that you cannot go out and cannot deal with lots of people, therefore you would need to work out when to go and how to go that's not imo what that question is asking you. 
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
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  • sue66
    sue66 Community member Posts: 124 Pioneering
    Victoriad said:
    What on Earth has preparing food got to do with mobility?

    I suppose it depends on if its walking to prepare the food that causes the problem or mentally needs help. Would have thought if its mentally then this would come under care component. Years ago when folk applied for DLA mobility was all about just this, an ailment that affected your legs and walking distance, i know cos hubby got higher rate but although he is now worse PIP gave him standard rate which he never appealed against and didn't want to risk losing even this and grateful quite honestly to have come out with anything at all going by all the stories ive been reading on hear the past year.Clearly really severe cases being given nil points  :(
  • sandyp196
    sandyp196 Community member Posts: 142 Pioneering
    Victoriad said:
    Waylay said:
    @Victoriad For example, agoraphobia, severe anxiety around other people, etc.
    Hi @Waylay
    Ok I see where this is leading to....but dies it mean that your legs don’t physically function in the same way as someone disabled by missing digits on hands and feet?

    I don’t want to belittle agoraphobia ,anxiety ( having MH issues myself) but surely we should all be responsible for our own health?
    take some ownership of said health?......and do something to try to overcome these obstacles ......god forbid me from suggesting ...that we TRY and help ourselves.


    I can't believe I'm reading this on this site of all places. As a sufferer I find it personally offensive. You obviously have no idea what agarophobia and social phobia is like to deal with on a daily basis. Plus psychosis which accompanies some mental health conditions like mine. You DO belittle it and you obviously meant to. 
    If this is some of the attitudes WITHIN the disabled community then it's no wonder people with serious mental health conditions are struggling to get what they need. 
    I don't need to come to this site and read ignorant comemnts like this. It stresses me out. 
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  • sandyp196
    sandyp196 Community member Posts: 142 Pioneering
    Victoriad said:
    Ok @sandyp196
    I am not belittling you ....I had the “temerity” to suggest that we help ourselves.....not ignorant but forward thinking.


    I am not interested in your reply. It makes things worse as you have no idea what your talking about. You ARE belittling serious mental heath conditions. I would usually try and explain the condition to back up my response but I really can't right now.  I'm too upset.
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