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PIP assessment

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  • angel137
    angel137 Community member Posts: 51 Courageous
    edited November 2022
    @ Mike [removed by moderator]
    I agree with some of what you say.
    I can only tell you that my Pip application was a long, fully detailed description of my abilities, with the help of a guide, for each descriptor that pertained to me. I added an A4 sheet for virtually every descriptor. It was a fully detailed application. 
    Many people have unseen conditions, illnesses/ disabilities and this is something that is very difficult for the HCP to assess. However, during my assessment,  which took place at my home, the assessor was continually trying to get me to say things that contradicted what I had stated on my application. (I had a friend with me taking notes.)
    I do not cook (I also have a lower arm disability). I had already stated this during assessment. We discussed this discriptor. A minute later, she asked me if I live on my own. Then she said: "So, you cook for yourself then?" This continued throughout the assessment. Luckily, I have experience of this. Far too much experience. She didn't catch me out. I was prepared. So the HCP resorted to lying on the report to stop me getting points/higher rate. Shameful.
    If you try to do the movements during the assessment, even though you know it's going to cause you pain and you are unable to do them without leaning on chairs or walls/ people,  then they'll say you are able to do it, despite the pain and discomfort that it's clearly causing you and negative aftereffects. On the other hand, if you don't do the movements because of pain etc. they report you "refused" to do it. Or, don't even ask the client and say they refused. It really is Kafkaesque.
    I'm glad some people are treated fairly and respectfully but there is still a long way to go. A private company that is paid to assess ppl-often seems like they are paid to get rid of as many as possible. The assessor should be independent and have no targets/bonuses related to numbers completed or denied claims. 
    I won at MR stage on 2 separate benefits. At this stage, I stated clearly how many points I thought I should receive for each descriptor and why. I also sent in more evidence. The DWP ended up sending the report back to the provider to get them to change it. I'm convinced, for me personally, that I will never get any of the benefits in the first instance. It takes a senior manager or senior caseworker to look at my case for me to get the benefit that I qualify for. I went from 0 points/ fit for work to getting full points on ONE descriptor for my ESA CB. From 0 points to standard PIP at MR stage.
    It has cost me a lot though, healthwise. My health has worsened as a consequence. I've been going through these processes for over 2 years now......! Still, at least I've managed to be successful, up to a point. But it shouldn't have to cost me, or anyone else, what's left of their health.
    Peace out. 
  • jae377
    jae377 Community member Posts: 27 Courageous
    @Username_removed
    Now had PIP assessment. Having had to fill out DSS forms for 25 years I consider myself quite proficient at doing so. I am extremely careful to include  a full explanation of conditions and consequences WHERE POSSIBLE. The PIP form being an excellent example of circumventing this by design an example being do you use mobility aids - there is no space to state that you do not because you have been assessed against them and told NOT to use them as they will exacerbate spinal issues._ DSS assumption is that once assessed as requiring a / being a wheelchair user you will not try to walk at all.
    Request for on-line or Word format (i.e. accessible) doc met with incredulity and "we haven't been asked for his before" - Really ? dealing solely with disabled people the majority of whom such as myself use a PC to type everything.

    Able to park 2 yards from centre door so didn't use wheelchair but walked supported by my carer. Painful, but encouraged by my OT as good for my heart disease, arthritis and Diabetes to remain as mobile as possible.
    All seats at centre were very low plastic with no arms, lumbar support or height adjustment. This meant unable to stand up unaided - in 2018 a center which deals specifically with disabled clients doesn't understand basic seating requirements ? or a carefully thought out ploy ?
     Asked to "come through" to be faced with a staircase. Only after several seconds of standing looking at stairs was I told, I was watching your face for reaction - then told lift around corner.
    Assessor stated that she had read forms so was fully aware of medical conditions, then asked me why I could not get in and out of a bath - I have a damaged spinal cord and am assessed as wheelchair dependent (By NHS Wheelchair Unit).
    When I replied "I have high level spinal cord damage" I was asked to elaborate. Rather kills your points regarding not explaining medical conditions.


    Asked about school / education. Replied Grammar School plus Professional qualifications and .Post Grad Level education, entitled to use prefix DR.
    Asked what my last job was, replied IT Consultant, asked if this was manual clerical etc.

    Then asked if I had passed GCSE's (O Levels) in English and Maths !!!!

    Lots of questions about shopping - 99% of which is done by carer.
    Ditto Cooking.

    Basically totally inappropriate set of questions to establish what I can and cannot reasonably do.
    Conclusion, this process is not aimed at those of us with long term disabilities and is NOT fit for purpose.




  • angel137
    angel137 Community member Posts: 51 Courageous
    @jae377  

    Thanks for posting.

    PIP has absolutely nothing to do with your education or work experience. It is not a work-related benefit. Your education shouldn't really come into it. As  part of your social history, it's understandable, but going into great detail about these things is unnecessary.

    It is different for ESA. That is a work-related benefit. Pip has nothing to do with work- some people receive PIP and work and some do not.

    I need more help than I currently get. They (DWP/assessors) seem to draw the conclusion that if you don't have that help, then it must mean you don't need it. This is not the case. 

    Our social care system has been decimated by cuts. That's one reason why PIP is so important.

    @Username_removed is right though. One must focus on the descriptors, not the illness /condition /disability. It's how it affects your ability to do  specific activities in daily living and mobility. 

    The application itself is a bit of a nightmare. I would maintain that even the application is designed to trip you up. It is difficult to understand what some of the questions mean. A guide is necessary to navigate through it.

    I don't want to be cynical but it seems every stage of the process is designed in a way that means you need to be a benefits lawyer to get through it and get what you qualify for. It is purposely done this way. It's not accidental. 
    Your experience re: the stairs/lift during assessment.....They have no shame. 
    Despite this, we will prevail. ☺
  • blueboy87
    blueboy87 Community member Posts: 69 Courageous
    @angel137 an OT report should be enough they know what you are capable of that’s why they do adaptations in your home and get you aids to help you move about the Ot spends hours with you were an assessor 30 minutes I’ve been married 32 years and still don’t fully know my husband likewise him with me but 30mins with a jobsworth and they know everything
  • dougal1
    dougal1 Community member Posts: 23 Connected
    Hi all,
    I had my pip assessment on 8th Aug 2018, l asked for a copy of the report on the 16th Aug l was told 7 to 10 days ,I've just phoned DWP and asked where copy was they told me l didn't request a copy till the 24th, I did phone on 24th to give the additional information so either the call taker on 16th didn't put request in or chap I spoke to today is telling porkies, I kept on telling him l requested copy on 16th but he wasn't interested, it all a farce 
  • swifty
    swifty Community member Posts: 8 Connected
    Thanks everyone who has commented, however my mind is not at rest and no one has really answered my question. Still need to wait approximately another 2 weeks for decision... ?
  • swifty
    swifty Community member Posts: 8 Connected
    Fair comment @swifty.

    The answer is that the PIP assessment is a functional assessment but does not have to include functional testing as it’s not a medical. Indeed, if they have been given up to date functional information then their guidance suggests they should not and ditto if it would cause pain or distress. The lack of functional testing is for the most part a good thing.
    Thank you! I’m so stressed out by the whole bloody thing! Stress does not help with my pain so just so fed up with it all. Plus the thought of appealing when I don’t get it, is a nightmare!
  • dougal1
    dougal1 Community member Posts: 23 Connected
    My assessor never asked one question Re my main disability my legs and back she was more interested in whether l could use a microwave and if l could wash myself ,l was told to expect a desicion within four weeks of them receiving the info they needed 
  • angel137
    angel137 Community member Posts: 51 Courageous
    @Username_removed
    Absolutely.
    To clarify though, I didn't add a FULL A4 sheet to every descriptor! I just added info. where necessary and where I felt I needed further detail for those descriptors I knew were important for my application.
    Having said that, I think I did make my MR too long, but it really is difficult to determine at that stage how much is too much. You want to keep it as short as possible but if you've been given 0 points, you  have to no choice but to go through every single descriptor that pertains to you.... It was exhausting, but I was successful. 

    @dougal1 Whenever  you speak to the DWP, you need to write down why you called and what's been said. Keep  a diary. If you request a report, any requests, you need to put that request in writing (as well as calling them). That way, if anything goes wrong, the DWP will have it on record. Only a short statement is needed. Send it "signed for" if you can. Keep the receipt. 

    Other post: "Cooking" means preparing a meal from scratch. It potentially involves lifting pots, boiling a kettle, standing for longer periods, etc. so if you have back pain and leg pain, or other disabilities with regard to standing, lifting, grasping, carrying, or if you have cognitive or neurological symptoms, that is relevant for this descriptor. If you are unable to cook and mostly use pre prepared foods,/ are unable to stand for longer periods due to exhaustion or pain, for example, then you may get points for this descriptor.
     o:) 
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    @Username_removed On the contrary, my back is my main physical disability, and it affects cooking, bathing, therapy, dressing, engaging, etc. When one is always in pain, and any activity more than 10min can cause a severe back spasms (oops, bedtime, no mobility, morphine), you can't do anything involving sitting, standing, kneeling, leaning, etc. reliably.
  • blueboy87
    blueboy87 Community member Posts: 69 Courageous
    @Username_removed I have to agree with you there my brother in law had spinal op drs letter explained he has chronic pain but the only thing the assessor said can you pick something up of the floor which he was unable to do he’s going to a tribunal but last week was told by his specialist he has failed back surgery syndrome he is writing a letter then it will be with the tribunal his representative has gone into great detail and wants to know why what was on his claim form and drs letter weren’t on assessors report 
  • dougal1
    dougal1 Community member Posts: 23 Connected
    Hi all,
    I have just received my assessor's report, mmmm interesting reading, according to the assessor l have normal movement in my left ankle ,odd that I've not had that for 20 years, got a physio pal of mine to check he was appalled at what she ( the assessor who was a nurse) must have put a generalised statement down, l also had my right hand in bandages from previous days opp she put down l had normal grip in right hand, odd that because I refused to let her touch it as it was to painful, l just wonder sometimes what the hell is going on. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,328 Disability Gamechanger
    dougal1 said:
    Hi all,
    I have just received my assessor's report, mmmm interesting reading, according to the assessor l have normal movement in my left ankle ,odd that I've not had that for 20 years, got a physio pal of mine to check he was appalled at what she ( the assessor who was a nurse) must have put a generalised statement down, l also had my right hand in bandages from previous days opp she put down l had normal grip in right hand, odd that because I refused to let her touch it as it was to painful, l just wonder sometimes what the hell is going on. 
    You added the points?
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • jae377
    jae377 Community member Posts: 27 Courageous
    Not surprised. The same company that does these were contracted to my last employer to assess those on ill health pensions. Only after 10 years of being assessed yearly did I contact company doctor to query what the point was at a cost to pension fund of hundreds of pounds. (I was reasonably senior in the company so able to speak directly)
    Response staggered me, Atos had totally ignored my damaged spinal cord (incurable - 17 hours of surgery just to stabilise my neck / spine) in every report but stated that the reason I was in a wheelchair was unclear - which might improve - hence yearly review.
    Sent to specialist spinal unit for Independent assessment. Report stated that no known cure for high level spinal cord damage (C4/C5) exists. - end of assessments.
    Just had my own PIP assessment and am now awaiting with interest copy of the report. Given that guidelines state "where clear entitlement exists an assessment will not be needed" and I have been on highest level DLA mobility for 23 years I am not expecting it to be accurate or truthful.
  • blueboy87
    blueboy87 Community member Posts: 69 Courageous
    Hi@joe777 I think assessors just write down what they want not what happened at the assessment 
  • dougal1
    dougal1 Community member Posts: 23 Connected
    I was on DLA for five years then changed to pip, got the same amount no worries, I had to stop work two years ago as company said l was a liability and danger to myself because of frequency of falls, I was assessed by company doctor as well as NHS ,my condition is not curable, my ATOS assessor has recommended in report l go back in nine months to be reassessed to see if condition has got better,
    Farce is an understatement, you could make a comedy series out of this
  • jae377
    jae377 Community member Posts: 27 Courageous
    Now got copy of assessment. Stated full range of head movements (Umm is that with or without the neck brace ?) Normal grip in left hand, oh so that's why I drop things and on blind testing have only 40% normal grip/use. Stated I refused to carry out an exercise - flat lie, tried everything asked. Ignored fact I am assessed as needing wheelchair (and have one). Ignored damaged spinal cord - states problems are muscular skeletal. Stated I have no short term memory problems - but everyone I know is fed up with me repeating myself and forgetting names, directions etc. Biggest joke is that the timescales given for assessor to tick do NOT include a "permanent" option 3 months is longest. I have been like this for 25 YEARS. Was surprised I got upset by being made to look useless when I AM NOT. I now know assessor was a nurse, oh that will be one of those people I have to teach how to handle me every time I am an in-patient because "we are not taught that anymore" and I need significant help after procedures.

    I am not very hopeful regarding outcome of this but must wait and see.
  • blueboy87
    blueboy87 Community member Posts: 69 Courageous
    Hi @joe777 my brother in law had a nurse she was late and got us out quickly as her next victim was due nurses don’t specialise in everything most are on a ward permanently she hadn’t even heard of 1 of his illnesses 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 53,328 Disability Gamechanger
    What you need to do is look for the boxes with either dots or ticks next to them. The look online at the PIP descriptors and add up the points, to see what's been recommended, if any. Usually they go with the report.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    Apologies, @Username_removed , was apparently feeling a bit sensitive that day.

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